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Author Topic: Canon Fine Art Paper Margin issues...and What QU gets up to! and why!  (Read 25528 times)
RS-MAN
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« on: March 09, 2012, 08:30:20 PM »

I am enjoying my new software – but... what is happening to my margins.

I use Museum Etching paper, which I like tremendously, however, my main gripe is the 35mm margin Canon insist on. Yes I know this is a Canon / user thing but... 

By accident I selected a paper size in which QU would use 2 sheets of paper. I only printed one sheet but QU over ruled the 35mm Canon margin. Top & bottom was 5mm. How did QU do this?

I reset my settings and printed the whole image – back to 35mm margins.

I then used the crop tool in Photoshop and cropped an image then used QU lovely print (well it was a little dark but that is another post. My ‘brightness control is set to 0’)

This time...24mm margin top and bottom. What is going on?

My objective would be to have a smaller margin but I would like some control over this. Clearly QU can overcome Canon’s insistence on a 35mm boarder, how is QU doing this?

Kind regards

Shaun
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Terry-M
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 03:54:38 PM »

Quote
What is going on?
It's hard to tell. Please say what paper size you have set in the driver, what print size you are trying to print and what is the printable area being reported by QU, see just above th epage preview on the main screen. Also, what size does QUsay it's sending to the printer, look in the Queue tab?
Quote
Clearly QU can overcome Canon’s insistence on a 35mm border, how is QU doing this?
I doubt it. QU can only do what the driver says it can.
When QU asks to spread the print over more than one page, that means the printable area of the page is smaller than the specified print size. It does not fool you by shrinking the print to fit without telling you - like some well known editing software!
BTW to minimise confusion, what you are calling "borders" are in fact page "margins". In QU borders are related to an image print, not a page.
Also, you can see the detail of Page Margins in the Edit-Preferences menu; you can increase the margins there if needed.
Give us some more details and then we may be able to help.
Terry
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RS-MAN
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 04:10:31 PM »

Hi Terry,

I have my paper size set to A4 and my paper is A4

The image in Print Queue is 8.94X6.38

When I printed the first page of 4 QU printed a ¼ of my image on a sheet of A4, however, top and bottom 35mm margins were in fact 5mm.

Hope this helps BTW I have made some progress. Please see my new post.

Kind regards

Shaun 
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Fred A
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 10:20:38 AM »

Quote
have my paper size set to A4 and my paper is A4

The image in Print Queue is 8.94X6.38

When I printed the first page of 4 QU printed a ¼ of my image on a sheet of A4, however, top and bottom 35mm margins were in fact 5mm.

Hi Shaun,
Terry is likely at church this day, so until he returns, perhaps I can gather some data from you.

I brought up your printer in Qimage. I selected A4 paper.
I show a printable area of 11.376 x 8.00
(So far, do we agree?)
We have to establish if we are seeing and doing the same thing.

I would like you to click the TAB marked Queue located just next to the Job Properties tab... with an image in the queue... what is the total print size.?

Quote
The image in Print Queue is 8.94X6.38

The above quote needs to be clarified.
Does that mean that the image was presized in Photo Shop at a specific ppi, or is that the print size that you want to print?

Does a warning notice appear at the top of the preview panel when you add your image to the queue? It shows 2x2. Which means, Qimage will need 4 sheets of paper.
See screen snap.

If you made your print size (as Terry said) larger than the printable area 11.376 x 8.00, you will get a warning that Qimage needs more pages to complete your request.

Then when you print, you will be printing parts of your image on each page, and you are in Poster mode. 
If you are in poster mode, then Qimage will make 5mm margins (I guess. Terry is Metric Man) :-)   
I call them teensy weensy margins. It looks like about .196 inches to me.
Seriously, Qimage does this because using poster mode implies that you are going to paste the panels together to form a large poster type print, and the small margin facilitates butting then with overlap of margins, and pasting.

So if you answer the few questions above, we will have you all sorted.
Fred




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RS-MAN
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2012, 03:41:35 PM »

Hi Fred,


I have just bought QU (IMHO) the best printer software out there. No more prating about in Photoshop!!!

 I am part of the gang now!

First, many thanks for your kind help

Sadly no to the first part my printable area is 8.936 x 8.000 in. As I have to select A4 35mm margin in my page set up this is a mandatory setting as I selected Museum Etching in Media Type.

The sides of my print preview are greyed out the top and bottom is white, I suspect 35mm. However, when I measure they are 29 to 30 mm

I too am not sure where my 8.94x6.38 came from. 8.94 is constant but the other measurement varies I suspect this depends upon my crop. I use ‘fit to Page’ in QU 5.95 seems the norm

When I get a message i.e.2X2 and I print as you say I am in Poster mode but as you say my margins are 5mm, but my media and paper are the same. This to me IMHO indicated QU is over riding my printer driver as the 35mm margin is mandatory.
 
CheeRS

Shaun

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Fred A
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2012, 05:09:33 PM »

Quote
When I get a message i.e.2X2 and I print as you say I am in Poster mode but as you say my margins are 5mm, but my media and paper are the same. This to me IMHO indicated QU is over riding my printer driver as the 35mm margin is mandatory.

This is not so
Qimage has changed the format of the print, (with your permission) to use 4 sheets of paper instead of one. It doesn't change what you see on your preview screen or Print Editor.

What size print are you trying to make?
I need to know that.
Forget this 8.94X6.38.
I also need to know the paper size and the printable area reported by Qimage above the top right preview panel.

Select some sensible paper type and size and forget the 35mm margins for now.
Let's get ourselves working properly.
I just told your driver that I have A4 paper. That gave me a printable area of 11.376 x 8.00
I punched in an 8.0 x 10 print size.
That's the size Qimage sent to the driver and that's what will come out of the printer.

Let's start from there.

Fred
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RS-MAN
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2012, 06:17:41 PM »

Sorry about this Fred,

Thanks for your help

I am trying to print A4

Top right hand panel says 8.936 X 8.000 in.

If I select any other paper Canon will let me print without my 35mm margin.

Other paper A4 and if I select 8.00 X 10.00 in QU Print Properties the right hand says: 11.376 X 8.000 in.

Hope this helps you have to bear with me as I am but a simple joiner!

CheeRS

Shaun
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Fred A
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2012, 06:23:57 PM »

Quote
If I select any other paper Canon will let me print without my 35mm margin.

Other paper A4 and if I select 8.00 X 10.00 in QU Print Properties the right hand says: 11.376 X 8.000 in.

Hope this helps you have to bear with me as I am but a simple joiner!

So what's the problem?
You are fighting something that Canon built into their driver for a good reason, Apparently, as I mentioned before, there are probably areas on that 35mm of margin where some drive wheel in the printer will mark up that kind of paper.

You remind me of that old joke.
"Every time I bang my head against the wall, it hurts and I get a lump."
"What should I do?"

Fred
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rayw
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 09:36:31 PM »

Hi Shaun,

Why not pretend it's another type of paper, e.g. one that doesn't fix the wide margins in the driver? It may be necessary to adjust some of the other driver settings or the icc profile, maybe you have a custom setting in the driver so that you can recall the fudged settings easily, if Qi does not delve that deeply into the printer driver. In the past, but for older Epson printers, I've taped a card guide to push the paper over from the edge of the printer, and told it to use A3 instead of A4, making sure that the image I'm printing is in the correct place and size for the pseudo A3 size.

Of course, without access to your printer, or any knowledge of why that paper is so special, it may not work for you, so don't blame me if you get the paper wrapped up in the mechanism Wink.

Best wishes,

Ray
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Terry-M
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 10:46:25 PM »

Quote
Why not pretend it's another type of paper, e.g. one that doesn't fix the wide margins in the driver?
It's not as simple as that!   Roll Eyes I installed that driver today and it insists that Fine Art  Museum Etching paper is loaded via the front tray, not the auto feeder. This implies that the media will not feed by the auto feeder due to its properties (thickness etc.) and Fred was right that Canon know the feed mechanism must have clear space, ie. 35mm margins on the narrow sides, for it to feed properly.
Shaun, if you want a bigger print on  Fine Art  Museum Etching paper use A3 paper which gives you a printable area of 322.1 x 412.9mm.
Otherwise your biggest print on A4 is 203.2 x 226.9mm.
Don't mess with cropping in Photoshop - you mentioned this in a previous post, specify the size in QU or  Fit to Page to get the biggest print and crop scissors on to fill the space. Adjust the crop position in the page Editor.
Use Crop scissors off to maintain the original image aspect ratio.
Terry
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RS-MAN
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2012, 07:34:15 AM »

Thanks all,

I appreciate your kind help. I understand what people are saying but when I have printed QU does over ride Canon’s 35mm margin, I was just wondering how QU did this, that is all. I have some prints in which I have 5mm margin and I didn’t change my paper type, I must have done something but as I am new to QU I can't remember. They also printed without a problem, the enforced margin seems to be the sides of a landscape and QU only alters the top and bottom. This is what got me thinking as that is where the rollers would be.


I have sorted my margin problem out. IMHO Canon imposed this margin for no reason (other than it looks good, even if it is restrictive) and again IMHO they have lost a lot of sales. Yes evidence – well I use ICC profiles, I have made myself using Spyder 3 Studio SR and very good it is too, however, I read that Hahnemuhle ICC profiles are better. So I tried this out. Hahnemuhle say use Matt Photo paper for my Canon 9500. This gets around my 35mm margin. I have now printed 3 A4 and 2 A3+ prints with very small margins one at 10mm (just under ½ in. There seems to be no problem.

Thanks for the crop advice Terry I will use that I find QU to be so good I only wish I had found it years ago

I also found this

http://www.martinbaileyphotography.com/podcasts.php?dt=df&ep=145#Ep145



Kind regards

Shaun
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 07:35:57 AM by RS-MAN » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2012, 09:18:04 AM »

Hi Shaun,
Quote
but when I have printed QU does over ride Canon’s 35mm margin, I was just wondering how QU did this, that is all
I'm not convinced QU does change margins imposed by the driver. Although I've installed your driver, I cannot see a print preview, as no actual printer is attached, so cannot check what you say when poster printing is selected.
Quote
I listened to this and in summary Martin Bailey has used a Hahnemuehle profile because he is sure the Canon Fine Art papers are in fact Hahnemuehle papers. The significant feature of the Hahnemuehle profiles is they specify setting Matte Photo Paper and thus overcome the 35 mm margin problem because using that setting the margins are normal.
Obviously Hahnemuehle realised the limitations of the printer and worked around it.
The relevance of the Hahnemuehle settings has not been explained clearly before I think.  Roll Eyes I expect you still need to feed from the front tray and no the auto feeder.
See attached screen shot, the normal margins vary between 3 and 5 mm depending on which edge of the paper it is.
Quote
I read that Hahnemuhle ICC profiles are better. So I tried this out. Hahnemuhle say use Matt Photo paper for my Canon 9500. This gets around my 35mm margin. I have now printed 3 A4 and 2 A3+ prints with very small margins one at 10mm (just under ½ in. There seems to be no problem.
GREAT!  Grin Now we have that out the way you can concentrate on being able to learn all the features of QU.
Did you know about the learning videos here? http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage-u/learn.htm
There's a few hours of happy watching and learning there. I suggest you start with the basics with QU open and reproduce what the video does as it progresses. It is possible to download the videos if you have a Youtube download utility in your browser.
Terry
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RS-MAN
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2012, 05:31:31 PM »

Many thanks Terry, and hello all,

I suspect you now know, I am the world’s worst at explaining things! I am just grateful that everyone stayed with me on that one, I have an explanation – I am from Yorkshire!

Regarding whether QU can change driver settings or not, when Museum Etching paper is selected my driver insists on the 35mm margin, however, when I print poster 2x2 for example, my margin is 5mm isn’t QU changing my driver to do this? I only ask, just wondering.

I would appreciate one point of clarification. My preview sides are ‘greyed out’ I guess this is the 35mm margin. This is normal yes? This only applies when I select Museum Etching paper, which I am very fond of. Incidentally, I have ordered a few sample sheets of Hahnemuehle William Turner to try.

Off to learn QU with the videos

Kind regards

Shaun 
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2012, 05:41:49 PM »

Quote
I would appreciate one point of clarification. My preview sides are ‘greyed out’ I guess this is the 35mm margin. This is normal yes?
Yes that is correct, the non-printable area on the page preview shows grey.
However, in the Page Editor there is no visual indication, the grey border is just a frame. The size & position tab shows the distance from the page edges and you cannot abd QU will not allow you to position an image outside of the printable area if you attempt to do so.
Terry
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