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Author Topic: IS THIS A CALIBRATION ISSUE??  (Read 44126 times)
SMILING DOG
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2009, 01:23:43 PM »

Thaks Howard, that sounds like another good idea, I will look for those settings tonight when I get time to do run more prints.  If I make these adjustments, then of course I will have to reset my monitor to where it was before.  Even before adjusting the brightness I have had problems with some of the older CRT monitors being too dark to display my images properly - so that could be a real issue. 

Thanks for all of you suggestions, I will do some experimenting over the weekend.

Rhonda
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Seth
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2009, 07:15:24 PM »

Yep, same as the Tensor.  Mine doesn't have the cutesy handle on top but  I don't carry it.  I did glue an L shaped piece of plastic to the front so I can just pop it open with one hand.

GREAT little tool though, and I find it to be pretty spot on whether or not the paper has OBAs.
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Fred A
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2009, 07:31:19 PM »

Quote
This is a known problem for Epson printers and a way to handle it while not changing anything to throw off a properly calibrated monitor.

Let's just say we agree to disagree.
If that was a known Epson problem that the Epsons print too dark,
1) Mine doesn't, but a company, perhaps the largest printer manufacturer and sales portion in the world, like Epson would easily correct the discrepancy by issuing a revised print driver, or revised print profiles, etc.

2) I haven't used anything other than a Spyder type monitor profiling tool, but it is quite clear that profiling is done (for accurate color) after you have set the brightness and contrast.
The instructions do say to turn them up to 100%
That is where the problem lies for me. I think they just left that instruction in there left over from the CRT profiler.
I set the contrast and brightness to 50% and even closer to a test print, and THEN, I profile the colors.
Now I have a proper monitor profile.
I never take the word of a subjectively made monitor profile over a commercially made printer profile, and blame the difference on the printer.

Sorry if we fervently disagree, but just because a few disgruntled people who agree that their prints are too dark does not make a "known issue"

I am one of the gruntled people.

 Cool Shocked Grin Grin Grin
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 07:35:54 PM by Fred A » Logged
Terry-M
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2009, 07:32:08 PM »

Hi Rhonda,
Quote
I will do some experimenting over the weekend.
I hope you have some success  Wink

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm but I'm still thinking there's a monitor calibration issue here.
You said you are using and Epson printer with their inks(?) papers and profiles, and, presumably their recommended driver settings for the particular profile, which, I'm sure will not include colour density. I cannot believe that Epson would produce profiles that gave completely unsatisfactory results on any printer.

Quote
I will have to reset my monitor to where it was before
The problem then is how? The Huey will not allow you to set any known luminance values, it's all description with no numbers.
Again sorry to put a dampener on the Huey, but I looked up some comments on my local supplier's web site - they sell all types of calibration kit including the Huey.
"The Huey is a low cost monitor calibration solution and lacks the advanced features of the better systems."
"If you know what colour temperatures are, then you know a bit about colour management and we'd probably say Huey is not the right product for you as you don't get those choices in the software."
about the Pro version:
" ...does have some of the features that the basic Huey lacks, but it still lags behind the Spyder and EyeOne Display systems in terms of colour accuracy."

Your playing around with other settings at the weekend may produce better results but will you get consistent results over a range of images and papers?
The extra cost of a better calibration device would be well spent.
Whatever, have a good one  Cool
Terry.

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Terry-M
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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2009, 07:46:07 PM »

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after you have set the brightness and contrast.The instructions do say to turn them up to 100%
The Eye One Display 2 software (advanced mode) asks you to set a luminance value which you later adjust with the monitor brightness control; mine is 120Cd/M2 and the control is at about 25%
Like Fred's it also says set contrast to 100% but I don't and leave it at the "native" value of 50%. At 100%, the results on the final calibration results screen and validation are not as good with the high contrast value.
BTW. I think the 120Cd/M2 value would be the one used for an LCD if the "easy" mode calibration was used.
Terry.
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Seth
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« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2009, 07:55:05 PM »

Hi Fred-

Actually it is an issue--both in QI and PS.  Using standard Epson profiles with their paper do the same to me (or did).  In QI I created a filter to add +1 Brightness, +3 Gamma and +3 Contrast that I applied before printing.  That was on a R2400.  Since creating my own profiles that has gone away.  Both in QI and PS.  

Linearizing the printers to factory settings with Colorbase 2 gives a better starting point for profiling.

As to monitor profiling, I don't know if you have a Spyder or Spyder2.  They should have quit saying that by now.  You're right.  I think it is a CRT carry over.

GMB/Xrite says you can do so if you want but suggests you just choose Native as the color temperature and proceed with calibrating.  I have tried both and find the Native gives the most accurate profile.  LCDs don't need all that crank up as you have stated.  The EyeOne sets my monitor brightness down from maximum.
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« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2009, 07:57:56 PM »

BTW. I think the 120Cd/M2 value would be the one used for an LCD if the "easy" mode calibration was used.

Awwww, we posted at the same time.  Yep, it did just as you say in Easy mode.

I guess one of two things is going on here.  Either they are as smart as we are; or, we are as smart as they are   Grin Grin.  I vote for the later. Roll Eyes
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Seth
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SMILING DOG
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« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2009, 06:40:55 PM »

Well guys, not to beat a dead horse here ...... but, I realize that my little Huey is not the first choice of professionals like yourselves.  I knew that when I purchased it, but did read several reviews and articles (one from PhotoShop) that lead me to believe that it would be an adequate system for me.  In my part time status, all I really need is to be able to print what I see on my monitor without making multiple sample prints at different lighting variations.  I do not print for other photographers, nor do I print Giclees for the original artist; either of these I realize would require exact color matching.  Don't misunderstand  - I do want and appreciate your advice, I just may not jump at some of the more expensive recommendations. 

Now, with that said; when I purchased my Epson V750 scanner the software package included a copy of X-rites EZ color calibration system (without the eye-one display tool).  Would this be worth the effort to install - or would it be no better than what I have already done?  From reading the product inserts, it refers to "Editing your printer profiles and applying them in Color Works"  This sounds to me very much like Howard was suggesting with the 'adjust density" option in the printer driver.

Thanks again, to all of you - I do appreciate and respect your input. :-\ Huh?

Rhonda
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Seth
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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2009, 06:57:22 PM »

Try the X-Rite stuff.  Go to their site and search for an update to it.  It can be hard to navigate their site so you may have to Google the software and see what version the search finds.

Even some of their other software does limited other stuff for free in demo mode.

Any calibration is better than none at all.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2009, 08:09:59 PM »

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professionals like yourselves
cough ... I'm not  Wink I assumed that as you were using a "pro" printer (= expensive), you were a pro and the small extra cost of a Spyder or an Eye One 2 would not be a problem. Sorry I misunderstood  Embarrassed
Quote
"Editing your printer profiles and applying them in Color Works"  This sounds to me very much like Howard was suggesting with the 'adjust density" option in the printer driver.
I would not think so. From what I can tell, it adjusts the density of ink applied via the driver - a sort of fine control of the paper type selection. I know that a profile can affect that but not in the direct way the "color density" adjustment does.

At first I couldn't see how X-rites EZ color software would be much use without the hardware. Also, I doubt if it will edit profiles that were not made with X-rite's hardware & software. However, I've just found the page that describes the software:
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=592
It's OEM only but does say
Quote
Build ICC profiles for displays (visually or instrument based)
So perhaps it is worth a go doing it visually Smiley
However doing it visually is just what Fred suggested regarding dark prints but still based on hardware (Huey) colour calibration  Shocked
Keep us posted on your progress  Cheesy
Terry.

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Terry-M
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« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2009, 08:58:12 PM »

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the software package included a copy of X-rites EZ color  calibration system (without the eye-one display tool).
I've found some info' on this software on the X-rite pages.
the Epson version, just a few answers to problems:
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?Action=support&ID=629
The details of the program, includes lots of answers to questions:
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?Action=support&ID=592
Look at the "Training" link, there's videos of "how to"
The tutorial for profiling monitors says you need the hardware but there is the ability to create printer profiles with a scanner (the reason Epson give it to you I assume).
It seems to do the same job as Mike's Profile Prism.
Hope this helps some more as to whether you install that software.
Terry.

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SMILING DOG
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« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2009, 09:49:07 PM »

THANKS SO VERY MUCH!!  I will view the links you have posted, and go from there. Smiley

Rhonda 
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Seth
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2009, 09:19:18 PM »

Hi Terry-

I had to start laughing.  The small additional cost of...Eye One.  I about choked when they told me $700.  I'm like Fred with that one: another lens (well 1/3 of one).  I just KNEW when they had a rebate they were getting ready to dump it and try to outdate it.  Sure enough, now the color Munki is the push.

I guess we should feel blessed.  At least we (you know, in the Colonies Grin Grin) don't have the VAT you have. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Seth
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Terry-M
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2009, 09:58:51 PM »

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The small additional cost of...Eye One.  I about choked when they told me $700.
We are talking monitor calibration only here, (that's all the Huey does) if you were asked to pay that price for an Eye One Display 2, they're having you on -  I know, it's the cost of the whole kit  Wink
UK price for a basic Huey is about £59, the Eye One Display 2 is about £120. No doubt the real costs in the US will be less. My point was that the £60 (~$90) difference is small compared to the cost of a 4880 printer.
Quote
At least we (you know, in the Colonies Grin Grin) don't have the VAT you have
They do in Oz, called sales tax  Shocked

I agree, that Munki looks good, I have a friend who has one.
Terry.
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Seth
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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2009, 12:50:01 PM »

Okay, I thought you were talking the kit since you were talking printers and Eye One/Spyder 2/Huey in the same post.  It's with the iOne Pro but all bet it's the same as the 2.

I bought the Photo Lite kit, so I got it stuck to me for the ruler tray, software and a case that's ill-fitted.  And--it won't do CMYK!!  Extra money.
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Seth
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