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Author Topic: PP & camera profiles  (Read 17392 times)
Terry-M
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« on: December 11, 2010, 04:10:44 PM »

My recent experience with PP v7 and camera profiles.
When PP v6.5 was launched 2 years ago to become “the first profiling tool that could create profiles that correct hue shifts and saturation problems without affecting tonality (brightness and contrast) and at a similar time (I think) Qimage SE was upgraded to use camera profiles, I made some camera profiles for my 350D with Profile Prism. I made one for Capture One raw, SilkyPix (jpeg’s from raw) and Q-SE.
I’ve continued using that Q-SE profile with Qimage Ultimate with good success; I also noted that now all camera profiles are available for Q-U users, my profile gave similar results to the DDI version, which was encouraging for me.
Now that PP v7 is available with an improved colour management engine, I thought I’d re-visit making a camera profile for Q-U.
Rather than use the old target image, I took some new photographs of the IT8 target. Despite it being Winter here, there was (literally) a window of opportunity this week where the sky was clear for an hour around midday and I had a shaft of pure sunlight streaming through a window, just as the PP instructions recommend.
The new profile seems to be very good with a slightly larger gamut than the old one, presumably due to the new, more accurate PP “engine”.
What surprised me a little was the improvement in colour & tone accuracy of prints. I have pro-made custom profiles for the Ilford papers I use so print colour was always good with a few minor differences in the greens; I did have some difficulty with tone and always used a “Fill” Print Filter in Qimage to lighten shadow areas.
With the new camera profile and printing from raw images, colours are an even better match with the monitor and no Print Filter is required, tones match very well too.  Cheesy
Perhaps I should not have been surprised because there is a link between the image profile and the printer profile.  Roll Eyes
If anyone wants to follow my example and is not sure how to go about it, ask me here – there is a little “trick” to making an image from raw for PP to read but it’s very easy. The rest is in PP Help.
Terry
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speedskater
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2011, 06:03:29 PM »

Hi Terri,

I converted the IT8 target from raw to jpeg/tiff following the instructions from Qimage help (tagging the image with a "placeholder" profile) while leaving the Qimage's raw image options at their default values.

Could you explain your "trick" please? Is it a different approach compared to the description from Qimage help?

Markus
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Terry-M
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 09:27:22 PM »

Hi Marcus,
Sorry about the late reply, I've been away.
I looked up the information that Mike sent me about creating a camera profile using a raw image.
As I remember, the "trick" is to create a place-holder profile and convert to a bitmap image for PP to read.

This is what he said, related to a Canon 350D CR2 raw image of the target:
Quote
you first need to create a placeholder profile and put that in your Qimage application data
folder under the "profiles" subfolder.  The name has to match the EXIF model for the camera. 
For example, take adobe.icm out of the application folder and paste it into the "profiles"
subfolder and rename it "EOS 350D DIGITAL.icm".  You can start with any profile because
the profile itself doesn't matter.  You just want it to recognize that the camera has a custom
profile.  Then add the CR2 to the queue (EOS 350D DIGITAL.icm should show as the profile
in the queue) and right click in the queue, select "Convert Images" and then select "BMP" as
the image format.  The created BMP can be used in PP to create the raw profile.  That
created profile would then *replace* the EOS 350D DIGITAL.icm profile in your "profiles"
subfolder.
Terry (no "i")
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speedskater
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2011, 05:33:10 PM »

Hi Terry (sorry for the "i"),

thank you for the additional information. I think I've got it now.

Hope the next weekend is sunny so that I can make a good shot of the IT8 target.

Markus (no "c")  Wink
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John H.
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2012, 09:36:52 PM »

Terry,

I am trying to make a profile for my Canon 500D.  Maybe I'm missing something in saving the images.  I followed the instructions including your "trick".  I right clicked the image in the queue and selected convert images.   I clicked BMP and left the profile-to-profile conversion blanks.  When I load my test shots into PP I get warnings that they are over exposed.  Some of the RAW files are severely underexposed (intentionally as I did a few different exposures) if I open them in Canon's DPP software.

Thanks
John
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 11:27:43 AM by John H. » Logged
Fred A
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2012, 10:02:25 AM »

John,
I think you meant to address this to Terry.
I am not sure what he was discussing with the previous poster.

Terry is at Church, and usually gets back at his 1:00 PM.    Then some lunch.
His 1:00 PM is like my 8:00 am on the east coast of the US.

Be patient. He's a good guy!

Fred
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Terry-M
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2012, 08:41:23 PM »

Hi John,
Attached is a jpeg version of my target shot (CR2) for a 350D and screen shots from PP. This will give you an idea of what the target should look like and the PP results.
Quote
Some of the RAW files are severely underexposed (intentionally as I did a few different exposures) if I open them in Canon's DPP software.
When I took my target shots I aimed to get a correct exposure and checked this with the camera histogram.
I'm not sure which raw conversion software you are using is it Canon or Qimage Ultimate?
Even with incorrect exposure, assuming no blown highlights, QU will automatically correct the exposure. I've also attached the histogram of the target bitmap image.
You see it matches the PP version and is good.
I've had to do 2 posts due to attachment size limits
I suggest you re-take you target shots and try to get a correct exposure with an even histogram: everything within the 0 to 255 range.
Terry
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 08:45:15 PM by Terry-M » Logged
Terry-M
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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2012, 08:42:44 PM »

Quote
I've had to do 2 posts due to attachment size limits
Here are the other attachments
Terry
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John H.
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2012, 10:03:12 PM »

Boy, your histograms are text book perfect.  I am using QU.  I will shoot new targets once the weather clears.  Rain all day today and more for during the week.  Since work gets in the way of hobbies I probably won't get a chance until next weekend.

Thanks.
John
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Terry-M
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2012, 06:45:09 AM »

John,
Quote
I will shoot new targets once the weather clears.  Rain all day today and more for during the week.
You must be in the UK; you do need clear sunshine. I did have the camera white balance set to "daylight" which on my camera is 5200K;  5500K was probably a closer to the truth.
Edit: CORRECTION - I did in fact correct white balance in the raw refine screen of QU. Since this is of my normal procedure for a raw image, I assumed that was ok from the point of view making a camera profile. No other refine adjustments were made.
Terry
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 06:56:38 AM by Terry-M » Logged
John H.
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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2012, 09:13:26 PM »

I wish being in the UK was the reason for the poor weather.  I'm actually in New York State.

I was wondering about the WB being corrected in QU since, for a RAW picture, it's an after the fact adjustment anyways.

Thanks.
John
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Terry-M
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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 07:17:29 AM »

John,
Quote
I was wondering about the WB being corrected in QU since, for a RAW picture, it's an after the fact adjustment anyways
I did some checks with a target image, one with WB corrected and the other not corrected. That with the WB not correct gave a worse result in PP with respect to the WB message PP produces. You could do an in-camera Custom White Balance but doing it in QU raw refine seemed to work fine.
Terry
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Terry-M
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2012, 11:01:04 AM »

UPDATE
There have been some queries recently on the Qimage Ultimate section about making camera profiles. More up-to-date information about using PP to make raw image camera profiles for QU has been posted.
See: http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate/the-advantage-of-using-custom-camera-profiles-in-qimage-ultimate/msg12273/#msg12273
In particular note the information about the settings in PP.
Terry
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