Mike Chaney's Tech Corner
March 29, 2024, 10:13:41 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Qimage registration expired? New lifetime licenses are only $59.99!
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Professional Photo Printing Software for Windows
Print with
Qimage and see what you've been missing!
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Profiles are to yellow  (Read 23625 times)
mexced
Newbie
*
Posts: 7


View Profile Email
« on: December 30, 2009, 03:45:54 PM »

Hello All,

i've been using Profile Prism for some time now. And allways thought the prints looked fine.
Until today, my main printers are a Epson R800 and a Epson 1290. Both use Ciss systems.
For paper i use Olmec or Innova and original Epson papers mostly matt.
Today i bought a second hand printer an Epson 2100 with original cartridges.  And made a test
print, and found out. My profiled printers have way to much yellow in the prints.
For the scans i use a Epson V300 Scanner. Profiles scanned give as a printer target result.

Note 4 patches marked with "X" are at minimum/ maximium brightness.

I'am using the original reference card R070919, is this card only usable for glossy papers?
And how can i reduce the yellow in my profiles?

Greetings to all.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 03:53:50 PM by mexced » Logged
rayw
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 440


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 12:18:48 AM »

You could try editing the profiles, or apply a print filter, if you use qimage for printing.
Logged
mexced
Newbie
*
Posts: 7


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2009, 01:57:51 PM »

You could try editing the profiles, or apply a print filter, if you use qimage for printing.

I've been using Qimage with al sorts of filters. Till now no perfect result. At the moment
i'am back to the Epson settings. Yesterday i printed a printer-target with a new profile.
Just to see how they would compare to the original. It was way off. I've used a lot of ink
and paper in total, at the moment i'am happy with the default Epson settings.
Logged
Terry-M
The Honourable Metric Mann
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 3247



View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2009, 02:52:32 PM »

Quote
Yesterday i printed a printer-target with a new profile.
I hope this is not really what you have done  Shocked  .... and you meant, printed a Test Image with a new profile.
Printer targets must be printed without any colour management at all. Qimage has a Printer Set-up for the task.
Terry.
Logged
mexced
Newbie
*
Posts: 7


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2009, 03:40:01 PM »

Quote
Yesterday i printed a printer-target with a new profile.
I hope this is not really what you have done  Shocked  .... and you meant, printed a Test Image with a new profile.
Printer targets must be printed without any colour management at all. Qimage has a Printer Set-up for the task.
Terry.

No the first printer target is printed with colour management off, the second print was a profiled print.
It was only a test! To see how different the colors where.
Logged
Terry-M
The Honourable Metric Mann
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 3247



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2009, 05:20:45 PM »

Quote
the second print was a profiled print.
Ok. it was a typo, I was just checking  Wink

Going back to your original post and basics:
Quote
Today i bought a second hand printer an Epson 2100 with original cartridges.  And made a test
print, and found out. My profiled printers have way to much yellow in the prints.
I don't understand the logic, why did you not think the original prints from your other printers were too yellow?
What is the comparison with your monitor like - properly calibrated I assume?
Profile Prism does provide an editor so you can compare print appearance with the original image and then adjust to get them matching. It does require the monitor to be calibrated of course.

Edit: How are you viewing the prints? Some lighting conditions can give odd effects; daylight is best or a proper lamp (Ott light) or viewing booth.

Terry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 05:26:21 PM by Terry-M » Logged
mexced
Newbie
*
Posts: 7


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2009, 08:02:16 PM »

Quote
the second print was a profiled print.
Ok. it was a typo, I was just checking  Wink

Going back to your original post and basics:
Quote
Today i bought a second hand printer an Epson 2100 with original cartridges.  And made a test
print, and found out. My profiled printers have way to much yellow in the prints.
I don't understand the logic, why did you not think the original prints from your other printers were too yellow?
What is the comparison with your monitor like - properly calibrated I assume?
Profile Prism does provide an editor so you can compare print appearance with the original image and then adjust to get them matching. It does require the monitor to be calibrated of course.

Edit: How are you viewing the prints? Some lighting conditions can give odd effects; daylight is best or a proper lamp (Ott light) or viewing booth.

Terry.

What i forgot to mention, with all 3 printers Epson R800, Epson 1290 and a HP8450 all the prints looked exactly the same after being profiled (to yellow/greenish).

Well i was viewing the photo under poor light conditions, so i never noticed it. That's the down site from energy saving bulbs. So you are correct, the problem
is not all pictures are too yellow. About 40% is oke, or i can't really see it. I've a other printer it's a HP 8450 which was also profiled, the photo looked exactly the
same as the Epson R800. So my thought was the pictures where oke, until the Epson 2100 came with the original ink.

But it gets even stranger, i printed a few reference pictures with the Epson 2100 and a few with the Epson R800 with the same Epson setting.
Now with the profiled managed by the printer driver. The pictures on the Ciss (Epson R800) are now better looking then the Epson 2100 with the original ink.
Yes i know it should be the other way around. So today the Epson R800 got a lot of pictures in the Print Server queue to replace the bad printouts.

Grtx Erwin.

Logged
mical
Newbie
*
Posts: 41


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 04:48:36 PM »

First comments since my purchase of PP several months ago.
 I have also had the green /yellow cast, use an Epson 2100 printer with a CIS system & have tried tweaking the profiles time and time again. Temporarily gave up, then approached the issue as a flawed starting point -(my first set of printer target 40 tifs all seem to be very dark, over saturated and dense -all printed using ‘QI /Prtr /ICC OFF ‘and Epson ‘print setup /no color controls’)
I then reprinted all printer target 40 tifs using ‘QI /Prtr/ ICC OFF/  no color controls’  for all the paper media I use, both gloss & matte (Epson-Ilford-Fotospeed etc). I did this at varying levels of ink color densities.  Access via Epson’s 'print setup/properties/advanced tab/paper configuration/color density'
 Printer target 40 tifs prints at less 5% ink-less 10% ink-up to less 25% ink color density.   
Created new profiles for each reprint, then made test prints of each profile - (hope that I'm making some sense?)
After much trial and error I settled on 25%less ink.
I used ‘QI/ Prtr/ ICC OFF’, Epson’ print setup /no color controls’, with color density set at 'less 25%' for printing the printer target 40 tifs.  These settings created printer targets that were less dense and lighter. Then, I scanned the IT8 target with the new printer 40 target, creating new profiles.
When I used the new profile, the green /yellow cast was still there, though less obvious. I then printed a picture using 25% less color density which was just too light; finally settled on 15% less color density.
So far so good - green/ yellow cast no longer an issue - still testing though.
 
PRINTER SETTINGS THAT I USE FOR PRINTING THE ABOVE PROFILE:
EPSON PRINT SETUP/PROPERTIES/ADVANCED/ NO COLOR CONTOLS/ PAPER CONFIG/ /LESS 15% COLOR DENSITY   

All this would seem to indicate that the ‘no color controls’ setting in the Epson 2100 printer  lays down a lot of ink and needs to be adjusted .  All of this can only be a pointer to all of you out there,  as each printer /paper/ scanner combination etc  has their own unique issues to be resolved.
Logged
mexced
Newbie
*
Posts: 7


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2010, 10:42:17 PM »

First comments since my purchase of PP several months ago.
 I have also had the green /yellow cast, use an Epson 2100 printer with a CIS system & have tried tweaking the profiles time and time again. Temporarily gave up, then approached the issue as a flawed starting point -(my first set of printer target 40 tifs all seem to be very dark, over saturated and dense -all printed using ‘QI /Prtr /ICC OFF ‘and Epson ‘print setup /no color controls’)
I then reprinted all printer target 40 tifs using ‘QI /Prtr/ ICC OFF/  no color controls’  for all the paper media I use, both gloss & matte (Epson-Ilford-Fotospeed etc). I did this at varying levels of ink color densities.  Access via Epson’s 'print setup/properties/advanced tab/paper configuration/color density'
 Printer target 40 tifs prints at less 5% ink-less 10% ink-up to less 25% ink color density.   
Created new profiles for each reprint, then made test prints of each profile - (hope that I'm making some sense?)
After much trial and error I settled on 25%less ink.
I used ‘QI/ Prtr/ ICC OFF’, Epson’ print setup /no color controls’, with color density set at 'less 25%' for printing the printer target 40 tifs.  These settings created printer targets that were less dense and lighter. Then, I scanned the IT8 target with the new printer 40 target, creating new profiles.
When I used the new profile, the green /yellow cast was still there, though less obvious. I then printed a picture using 25% less color density which was just too light; finally settled on 15% less color density.
So far so good - green/ yellow cast no longer an issue - still testing though.
  
PRINTER SETTINGS THAT I USE FOR PRINTING THE ABOVE PROFILE:
EPSON PRINT SETUP/PROPERTIES/ADVANCED/ NO COLOR CONTOLS/ PAPER CONFIG/ /LESS 15% COLOR DENSITY   

All this would seem to indicate that the ‘no color controls’ setting in the Epson 2100 printer  lays down a lot of ink and needs to be adjusted .  All of this can only be a pointer to all of you out there,  as each printer /paper/ scanner combination etc  has their own unique issues to be resolved.


That would make sense, going to try it tomorrow. Thank you for the info!

Grtx Erwin.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 12:27:45 PM by mexced » Logged
mexced
Newbie
*
Posts: 7


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2010, 12:29:51 PM »

Well this option is only available on my Epson 2100, not on the Epson R800 + 1290. Downloaded the latest drivers to see
if it was in there, no luck. But you are correct that there is to much ink.

Logged
rayw
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 440


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2010, 01:46:09 PM »

My suggestion would be, instead of playing around with three or four printers, you choose one, and get that one working correctly. The r800 is the same engine as the r1800, and many of us have the r1800, and have been successful in its profiling. The amount of ink laid down depends on the 'paper type' and quality/speed settings. It helps if you print using the 'bright' target for most epson printers. If your monitor is not calibrated, I am not certain how you can decide if your older prints are yellow cf your newer print from the 2100 not being yellow enough Huh? If your personal choice is to have a less yellow profile, then that is easy to achieve by simply editing the profile, or applying a print filter as I mentioned before, however you may need to rtfm.

One thing to be aware of with the r800/r1800, it has finer nozzles than normal, and depending on the working environment (humidity?) is very prone to clogging with pigment inks. When printing the tif test chart, you may not see that yellow is not all there.

For four printers, and two types of paper, you will have eight printer settings and eight icc profiles to manage - plenty of room for error. Also, are you sure you are not applying some other colour space profile to the test image when printing it or have erroneous settings in pp itself?

Best wishes,

Ray
Logged
Terry-M
The Honourable Metric Mann
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 3247



View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2010, 08:49:56 PM »

Ray,
just to pick you up on one point, but I agree with everything else you have said,
Quote
One thing to be aware of with the r800/r1800, it has finer nozzles than normal, and depending on the working environment (humidity?) is very prone to clogging with pigment inks.
I've used an R800 for nearly 4 years now and had very few clogging problems. I live in the UK so humidity variations are not too extreme but Fred from FL, who has an R1800,  has no problems either. Just don't run your (genuine Epson) cartridges to the absolute limit and all will be well.
Terry.
Logged
rayw
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 440


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2010, 10:05:20 PM »

Hi Terry,

The work environment that you and Fred have, and also for many other folk is fine, but it is not so for everyone. For example, it needs regular printing to keep the inks flowing. The op is using a css system. Bulk ink allows the pigment to settle over time. The fact is that the nozzle size on the r1800 is about half the size of the more usual epson nozzle size, and many folk do get severe ink clogging problems with the r800/1800 series, even if they use epson standard ink cartridges. As a deliberate experiment, I left my r1800 turned off, on the bench for well over six months, a year or two ago. I got it printing again, after a bit of effort spread over a number of days, and perseverance with window cleaner Wink. Others just buy something else and move on. Also, with a css system, it is possible to get air in the tubes - the nozzle test print may work fine, but the next minute air is being sucked. The r800/1800 (any printer, I guess) performs far more reliably with dye based inks, if not printing frequently.

All this is possibly not the problem that the op has, since it seems to be three printers wrongly (or perhaps correctly) profiled, not just his r800.

Best wishes,

Ray
Logged
Terry-M
The Honourable Metric Mann
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 3247



View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2010, 11:21:16 PM »

Quote
The op is using a css system. Bulk ink allows the pigment to settle over time.
Sounds to me that the problem is the css ink system and the ink used rather than the printer itself  Shocked
I have heard of someone leaving their R1800 for several months and it fired up again with little problem.
But this is off the thread subject now.
terry.
Logged
Fred A
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 5644



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2010, 01:05:53 PM »

Quote
Sounds to me that the problem is the css ink system and the ink used rather than the printer itself  Shocked
I have heard of someone leaving their R1800 for several months and it fired up again with little problem.

Hi Terry and Ray.
I have to take the opposing view. I have an R 1800, and there were times, when I was in the hospital for many weeks, plus convalescing afterwards where the printer didn't get used at all.
I turned it on and it went through its normal start up routine which includes a mild cleaning cycle. I printed a test sheet to see if there were any clogs... nothing showed.
As you well know, that crappy Epson nozzle check print with the wavy lines is hard to see at best. Nothing beats a good test print of a test image which can be compared to one you printed a while ago.

The secret is in using Epson inks. It is more imperative to use Epson inks with pigment type ink than years ago.
I have many friends who use third party inks, and they realize the limitations. They make sure they use their printers often to keep the "lumps" out of the system.

I have a friend, Peter, who monitors the forum, but never posts. He lives in Sarasota 7 months, and New Jersey for 5 months. His Epson printer sits idle for 5 months. When he returns in November, one cleaning cycle to be sure, and he makes glorious prints... and talk about a fuss pot!

I have another (snow bird) friend who arrives in Sarasota in October and returns to NJ in May. He has a 3800 sitting idle here. He arrives, and makes a test print or two, and his prints are beautiful.

One rule that seems to be ignored in Mical's explanation. The one that says, whatever settings you use in the driver to create the target print, will be the settings to be used when using that profile.
As Ray says, the ink amount is governed by the paper selection. I see that your selection of paper brands include some I never heard of. Usually, that package will contain a specified Epson paper selection to be used with their paper. Otherwise you are flying blind.
The 1290 uses Dye ink. The R800 uses Pigment ink. Are you sure the paper you are trying to profile allows either ink type?
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I used and loved Colorlife paper. That is a DYE ink only paper. I had to give it up.

Why not: insert the Epson Profile that came with the R800 that says Epson Premium Glossy.icm and with the driver set to No Color Management, and the paper selection set to Epson Prem. Glossy Photo paper, and the quality set to Best Photo, make a test print using Epson Premium Glossy photo paper of course.
Now you have a starting baseline to make a judgement.
See screen snaps.
If you have a yellow cast in those, then I would suspect my ink flow (nozzles) or ink cartridges.

I know I got carried away here writing such a tome, but I might as well add one more item.
I have a Canon i960 which was impossible to use anymore. It required that I make three full 8 x 10 prints before the colors would look normal. The first print was covered in red, second less, third almost gone, and the 4th print looked fine.
I wanted to toss it out but I had so many new ink cartridges for it that I was looking for someone who would take the stuff away for free. It sat here idle for 8 months.
Finally as I was experimenting with my W7 64 bit, I wanted to see if I could get that i960 to print in the 64 bit W7.  I managed to find a patched driver for it. I turned it on and the ink light was telling me I was low or out. Phooey, I replaced the inks that showed Low or OUT (3 carts) and the Red problem disappeared. The printer works perfectly now.
Was it bad ink cartridges? I believe so. I tried the i960 in my Vista 32 setup, and it prints fine there too. Old driver... was not the problem.
So a good thing to keep in the back of your mind...

Best to all.
Fred

Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Security updates 2022 by ddisoftware, Inc.