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Author Topic: "Crunchy" preview  (Read 13743 times)
nbagno
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2012, 03:36:47 PM »

Appreciate the input. Not trying to be confrontational so I hope you don't take it that way. I know the images may look over sharped in some of my screen shots which doesn't help my case much  Grin


Quote
Thanks Fred but what i am reading suggests that unless I process my Ram image in Qimage there is a good chance that the preview won't look so hot. I am happy with the on screen images and the final output.

That's not what I am saying at all.
What I am trying to impart is this:
(First of all, I suggest a click on VIEW at the top of the Main screen, and then REBUILD thumbs. (Not refresh; REBUILD!)

Just in cast there was a problem with the thumb quality or even the monitor profile.
The reason Terry and I go back time and time again to using Qimage a problem solving tool is because it can be.
We do not know what you, or any other person does to his or her images before he/she tries to print them from Qimage. Then when there is a problem to solve, we can use Qimage as a starting point (even from the RAW image or a JPG from the camera) and know that we, Qimage, Fred or Terry will not spoil the image. We also get a level point from which to start to help.

Your complaint was that the thumbnails and the preview panel were "crunchy" or sandy looking.
You also said,
Quote
Just seems that the onscreen image in qimage really exaggerate noise/grain that does not show up in print. I thought softproofing would show as close as possible what the print will look like?   

Since Qimage uses a low resolution image for thumbs and the previews (for speed), it becomes likely that you have a Thumbnail resolution problem, a thumbnail Quality setting problem or a lot over sharpened which looks worse in the low resolution samples.

Quote
Wondering why SOME of my image thumbnails and some of my soft proof images look really bad? Some, not all look very rough but print out just fine.

Again the quote above tells us that you have a thumbnail problem.

Finally, we work our way down through the posts, and you say,
Quote
The HQ button basically looks the same, crunchy  Grin

Now we have different data. The HQ button no longer uses the thumbnails.
You say the image looks "crunchy" even in HI Resolution.
So *that* says you over cooked something. The image itself is saved with too much noise or too much sharpening!


You had to have done it in Lightroom or some previous work station....
I have very little knowledge of Lightroom. I have no idea if you made layers and duplicated the unsharp mask layer (if that's possible) and when  you saved the TIF it added too much.
I have no clue.

I do know, however, what Qimage does with an image, and should you be kind enough to email one image to me (Original image), we could see what happened in an instant.
Qimage never alters the image. So whatever either of us does with the image, is easily tested and returned to original.

Remember, we only have your information that you give us from your posts.
That's why I ask for a test image. When the information from your posts has contradictions or doesn't point to a conclusion.
If the print looks good, no speckles, but the HQ button shows speckles, then I almost have to ask what printer and what paper?


Just trying to help!!


Fred


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sectionq
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« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2012, 02:41:32 PM »

Hope you don't mind me chipping in here... I had (or rather thought I had) a similar problem. I was working on an image recently which was done on a point and shoot, on the original image the colours were horrible and it was very noisy. But, it was a really beautiful photo worth printing in mono. I did a b and w conversion, tinted it but left the noise (I may have even added more, I don't remember) as it really worked well and added a nice sharpness. Anyway....
When I saved it as a Tif the thumb in Q was really grainy and when I then previewed it in q also, it was also really grainy too, looked the same at 100%. It had me scratching my head for a while as I tried resaving it and trying different formats to no avail. Then when I viewed it in PS it looked fine but when I zoomed it to 100% I realised that it was really that grainy after all!

So basically I think what is happening here is that Q seems to be less forgiving (but actually more realistic) when viewed at an odd zoom ratio.
Typically when you open up the preview window, depending on the size of the image, to get the whole image to fit onto the screen my image would have been at something weird like a 21% zoom so it's never going to render accurately. And likewise with PS, to get the whole image on screen it will end up being an odd zoom too (although slightly different because of the extra toolbars), it just seems that PS is more forgiving as it looks great when in reality (at 100%) it isn't so much. I'm guessing that Q's interpolation is different to PS or other programs at different zoom ratios? Is this right?

As for the thumbs looking grainy, I actually find this helpful as I can see at a glance the full size image is noisy.
The only weird thing is when I saved a version from the same tif file as a jpg it looked perfect so I guess with the compression it just ignors the noise as being irrelevant.

Hope that sounds right? It's how my logic figured it anyway.

Now I'll just go and switch on the other pc and and get some screen grabs to upload as my image is pretty extreme and worth a look.

Jamie

ps Mike already addressed the whole zoom ratio business, but I know from experience it's good to know other people are experiencing the same problems (or  rather what initially seem to be problems), all too easy to think that you're going mad.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 03:16:35 PM by sectionq » Logged
sectionq
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« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2012, 03:25:02 PM »

So this is the thumb view, the jpg is saved from the grainy tif file at highest quality and the grain is ignored.
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sectionq
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« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2012, 03:32:14 PM »

This is the PS preview, it's obviously at a weird zoom ratio so not accurate but it seems to gloss over the details more than Q.
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sectionq
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« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2012, 03:33:31 PM »

And this is the Q preview, again at a weird zoom ratio. Again, won't be accurate but at least it hints at the details/noise.
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sectionq
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« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2012, 03:51:37 PM »

And both at 100% (ignoring the different crops). The same as should be.
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sectionq
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« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2012, 03:52:14 PM »

Q at 100%.
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sectionq
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« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2012, 03:53:38 PM »

Also, have to just mention that when printed and viewed at a better ratio like 50% the noise is perfect and the image looks great!
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nbagno
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« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2012, 01:30:01 AM »

Shouldn't I be able to press the softproof button and get something that is close to what the final output will look like or do I need to sharpen/de-noise my image to conform to some threshold?
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rayw
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« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2012, 01:41:22 AM »

My understanding is that photoshop and some other programs anti-alias the display. This tends to hide the noise in the image, I guess their thinking is that often images are downsized and then the  noise disappears. However when you manipulate the image, (sharpen, add contrast, etc.) the noise increases. Since it is the display that is anti-aliased, the file itself will not be affected (except by sharpening, etc.) and will print OK.

Best wishes,

Ray
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Fred A
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« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2012, 09:26:26 AM »

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Shouldn't I be able to press the softproof button and get something that is close to what the final output will look like or do I need to sharpen/de-noise my image to conform to some threshold?

The Soft proof gives you a look at *approximately* what your image looks like when the monitor profiled image is compared to the printer profiled image.
It's a quick preview of something.... not sure of its value.
The printer profile is designed to match the paper and the ink and adds or removes contrast, saturation, hue, etc. That affects the softproof.

Try it... you see that applying a different printer profile to the setup can change the soft proof view dramatically. See screen snaps.
Guess which one is the soft proof image. 

You would be so far ahead if you would either print a small test print on the paper you are going to make the final print, or if that presents a problem because you need to see sharpness of a certain wedding dress at the correct print size, you should use the test strip feature in Qimage Ultimate.
The last screen snap is a test strip image it is a crop of the original, *BUT*, the ppi  of the full size print is retained.
In other words, the sharpness and definition of the center of that flower is exactly the same as it is when you print your large print.

I hope that helps a little

Fred
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