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Author Topic: Canon RAW converted to TIFF, no to minimal exif data  (Read 10107 times)
Alex
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« on: September 04, 2013, 08:49:31 PM »

I have started to explore using Qimage (2014.115) to convert my Canon 30D RAW images to tiff.  I use the convert function available when images are in queue.  I have not done a careful check but it is apparent that much exif data is not written into the .tiff.  Notably what is missing is the date shot field.  I also noticed that the camera model field is not the standard "Canon 30D EOS" but instead "30D EOS".  I can followup later with more specifics, but wanted to know if perhaps I was missing a setting for what is an important capability.
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Alex
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2013, 02:46:03 AM »

I have found the details on what is causing me organization and automation problems:
1. The exif model name is saved by Qimage as "30D EOS" when for several other Canon cameras I checked Qimage uses the naming convention (which is also used by several other RAW converters and Canon) of "Canon 30D EOS".
2. Qimage is saving the original date using the exif 'date modified' field.  This field does not by definition always match the 'image date taken' and/or 'image date digitized' exif fields so it can not reliably be used as the date taken.  It would be very helpful if Qimage also saved the date taken in the exif image date taken field.
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2013, 12:21:45 PM »

Here is a shot of the EXIF info.  Top is the CR2 and bottom is the converted TIFF.  As you can see, the manufacturer is "Canon" and the model name is "EOS 30D".  The date and all other fields are retained in the conversion.

If this is not what you are getting, please email me a sample CR2.  Maybe something has changed in the firmware to make some fields incompatible with DCRAW.

Mike
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Alex
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2013, 03:26:34 AM »

HI Mike, thanks for checking in on this.
I have attached a .txt file which is a cut/paste from the exif data reported by Irfanview from the original CR2 file as well as the CR2 Qimage converted to .tif.  I saw same results in using several other exif viewers.  This comparison best shows the differences, with explanation below.

In regard to the exif Model name: I also get the same result you show using Qimage Image Info ("Cntl-I) where the 'model' is reported as "EOS 30D" for both the CR2 and the converted TIFF.

However using other exif readers and/raw converters (including: Canon DPP, Irfanview, Fastone, Adobe, Phase One CO) the exif 'model' name is reported and transferred to converted output as "Canon EOS 30D" (note they all, like Qimage also report the 'make' name as 'Canon' in the 'make' field)

Interestingly I've also found that Qimage produces a matched result to these other readers/converters for the 'Canon PowerShot s45' and 'Canon Powershot s90' and 'Canon EOS 5D', so the Qimage difference only seems to be for the 30D of the models I've checked.

It may seem minor and it is, but it does produce a sorting discrepancy when managing many thousands of images and it also affects automated processing (primarily lens correction) that is based on correctly matching the 'model name' field.

Anyway it is curious why Qimage is reading a different value for the model name field than is reported most elsewhere.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the date stamp issue: Again the result you show I get the same as well.

As I have best determined using a variety of exif viewers, When converting a RAW, Qimage records the original date in the exif/camera field 'date modified' (aka date/time, tagID 0x0132) it does not save it to any other exif field or transfer other exif date fields.

Here is where there is interesting Qimage function:
When Image Info (Ctrl-I) is used it first reads and reports the exif/camera, 'date modified'.  But, if there is a date recorded in the exif/image, 'date taken' (aka 'date/time original' TagID 0x9003) field it will supersede reporting the exif 'date modified'
(This process can actually occasionally be seen when pressing Cntrl-I on a image that has not been previously read the 'date modified' will first pop up, but in a flash be replaced by the exif 'date shot' if it is recorded in exif.)

So in the example you provided Qimage is writing 'date modified' and reading it back correctly as expected.

However it is the Qimage function of only saving the original date in the 'date modified' field causes problems as other downstream image software will by design update the 'date modified' date when resaving, but not the 'date/time original' (TagID 0x9003) field.
As Qimage does not also transfer and record the 'date/time original' field then that original date when image was taken is lost.

It could be suggested that the issue is not with Qimage, but the other software that changes the 'modified date', however that date by intent/design should be updated whenever image is modified and it is the 'date/time original' field that remains unchanged.
Qimage should ideally not only write the 'date modified' field as it does today, but also write/transfer the exif fields for 'date shot' - this is standard function for other other RAW converters I've used. (I understand Qimage is not primarily intended as a RAW converter)

In general there are several other standard non manufacturer specific exif fields in the CR2 file that are not transferred to converted images. It would be a nice improvement if Qimage exif handling was more thorough.

As a separate, but related note/request in the thumbnail view when sorting by date Qimage sorts by the (non-exif) file modified date, it doesn't use exif dates.  It already appears Qimage can read the image 'date/time original' field, being able to sort by it (and perhaps other exif fields) would be a tremendous help.  

This is a reference to exif fields and associated Tag ID's:  http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/EXIF.html

Thanks for you help and consideration
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 03:57:05 AM by Alex » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2013, 01:15:24 PM »

As far as I can tell, QU is doing its job properly.  "Canon EOS 30D" is not the model.  "EOS 30D" is the model.  There's no reason to concatenate the make in front of the model when talking about the EXIF model tag: else why separate the two if you are just going to repeat the make in the model tag?  If you look at other camera manufacturers, the make and model will be separate.  For example, for a Panasonic GH2, the make is "Panasonic" and the model is "DMC-GH2".  For the Fuji X-S1, the make is "Fujifilm" and the model is "X-S1".  That's what those two fields look like when they are done properly and hence, every program will show the same format when reading those.  Since the EXIF spec is not specific about whether or not you should repeat the make in the model name, Canon and Nikon appear to do that while others don't.

But QU isn't making up any of this: I'm reading the EXIF model field and then writing it back out to the TIFF.  So "EOS 30D" is what DCRAW is reporting for the "model" field.  David Coffin's DCRAW appears to "correct" the model field by taking out the make, so that's what QU will report.  Personally, I like this because being able to deal with raw photos from over 350 cameras, I'd rather things be consistent.  I suspect that's the reason David Coffin made his DCRAW such that the model only contains the model number: consistency across multiple cameras.  If some repeat their make in the model name and some don't, you never know whether you need to show make+model or just model when showing the camera info.  If you don't know and you use Make+Model when you display camera info, a Panasonic GH2 would show as "Panasonic DMC-GH2" but a Canon would show:

"Canon Canon EOS 30D"

That said, yes, there are EXIF fields that I don't transfer to the TIFFs.  I transfer the basic fields because those are the only ones reported by DCRAW.  David Coffin of DCRAW has the same issue that I have: EXIF cannot be simply "copied" to the saved file.  It has to be rebuilt.  So many fields (particularly maker tags) don't make the cut.

Mike
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Alex
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2013, 02:58:17 PM »

Mike-

As you explained Qimage/DCRAW is not simply transferring exif data as it should, but in the case of the 30D, modifying the model name. That is the root of the problem.  Modifying the model name is not standard practice and is also not self consistent with how Qimage/DCRAW is handling the model name for other Canon cameras, where 'Canon' is not removed from the model name in exif.

For the exif 'date/time original' field, this is not a maker tag, it is a standard exif tag (see the .txt previously attached).  It is also a basic field that holds a very essential piece of data, that is when the image was taken.  Every other software I've used recognizes this field and is able to transfer it when converting files.  Qimage features list claims: "EXIF data carried through to converted images", but apparently this is only for a sub-set of basic fields.

I understand if you choose not to consider this further, but disappointing as there is opportunity here to make Qimage stronger in regards to exif handling.
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Abigail111
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2013, 03:28:10 AM »

HI there
Thanks for your nice sharing.Actually ,i am a new user for camera.I have taken some image,and i wanted to convert to tiff files .But my image converter can not do that.
So is there any powerful image converter which supports to convert raw image to tiff files.It would be perfect if there is a free trial package for new user.
Thanks for any suggestion.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2013, 07:55:06 AM »

Hi Abigail,
Quote
So is there any powerful image converter which supports to convert raw image to tiff files
Assuming you are a QU user, you already have it  Wink
What camera are you using?
To convert an images to tiff, add them to the queue, right click and select Convert Images. There are various options there, particularly note converting the colour space of the image.
Of course, with QU, there's no need to convert to print them, print from the raw unless you want to do some special editing in another program.
Terry
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