Mike Chaney's Tech Corner
October 31, 2020, 09:57:12 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Feb 2013: Qimage Ultimate Challenges... have fun and explore features!
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Download and develop photos from your flash cards with one click!
Get a trial of
FlashPipe today and stop fumbling with explorer windows to transfer photos and videos
Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
Author Topic: Combining DFS and TTS  (Read 20465 times)
Fred A
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 5349



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2012, 09:29:04 AM »

Quote
And then using the 'exclude' control on the skin tones to soften them.

I'll aim to post the results later today - but if anyone has any views about the best way to do this please let me know so I can incorporate them.

There are various ways to attack the sharpening of the image and the "softening" of the skin tones.

In all honesty, either Terry or I would have to see the actual image.
Just to point out the area that needs the actual image is when you say, "Use the Exclude control to soften the skin tones"

That isn't exactly right.... EXCLUDE means what it says. It will leave out the sharpening and exclude that tone from being sharpened, but it will not soften unless you use the additional, Soften everything else.

Sometimes, it's better (more control) to use a 3 radius and a MINUS 100 ( -100_ in the strength; Use sharpen selected!   The face tone which you selected will soften and adding the additional Sharpen Everything else, will apply.
It depends on what is the important part to soften.  Doing it this way allows the skin wrinkles to soften and the hair and eyes to stay sharp.

Really should get a copy of the image... 

(If you feel that you want to bother sending the image, could you send to Terry too, as I will be out a lot today.)

Fred
Logged
MelW
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 298


View Profile Email
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2012, 07:13:51 PM »

Here is my contribution to the QU flower show.  I don't normally shoot flowers, but when I got my D600 (with which I have already developed a love/hate relationship) - I had to go out immediately and shoot something! And there were lots of flowers and orange and yellow leaves.  Anyway, I patzkied around (that's a technical term meaning I didn't know exactly what I was doing) with the DFS settings on this - taken at f5.6 and a similar one at f11 - and think this works the best, radius 3, 250%, saturated colors.  Would like to hear perhaps some other ideas.  Mel W, Columbia, Md.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 07:20:16 PM by MelW » Logged
Terry-M
The Honourable Metric Mann
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 3197



View Profile WWW
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM »

Hi Mel,
Thanks for contributing to the discussion.
Quote
but when I got my D600 (with which I have already developed a love/hate relationship) - I had to go out immediately and shoot something!
Snap! as we say, I did the same when I got my 600D earlier this year - but I do like it and find it much easier to use than my old 350D both Canon not Nikon of course.
Back to the subject.
With my higher resolution 600D, I found I could/needed to use a higher radius even with USM but the percent value was usually less than 100%.
With DFS I find I have much more scope as no artefacts are created so I would expect your image would look ok with an even higher radius and possible a lower percent value. I'm not sure how may combinations you have tried but it is your personal taste in the end.
Another option to try for the TTS part would be to select one of the background tones and use Except. That would help to sharpen the dark centre of the red & yellow flower.
If you don't mind me commenting  Wink  Embarrassed
Your image looks a little bright here. If you are using QU for raw, try less fill and or a click on the bottom right rectangle over yellow flower; that looks like it has some 255 RGB values. A blue rectangle may be enough, if not, go to mauve t fully recover. I often have a similar problem with yellow flowers.
If not using raw, lower brightness and a little more contrast.
Terry
Logged
MelW
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 298


View Profile Email
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2012, 12:44:05 AM »

Terry - 

Thanks for the suggestions - yes I will fool with it some more - I think you are right.  I was paying so much attention to sharpening, that I didn't look at some of the other basics - like exposure for example.

Mel
Logged
Terry-M
The Honourable Metric Mann
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 3197



View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2012, 09:27:02 AM »

Quote
yes I will fool with it some more
I've been in on DFS since the beginning and am still learning and going back to images I first tried with DFS and making changes. I would say that overall the values I use for DFS are not that much different than for USM on the average sort of image but it's much less likely you'll make a mess of sharpening an image with DFS and it's much easier to make a very good job of "difficult" images.
Terry
Logged
Fred A
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 5349



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2012, 10:51:24 AM »

Quote
I've been in on DFS since the beginning and am still learning and going back to images I first tried with DFS and making changes. I would say that overall the values I use for DFS are not that much different than for USM on the average sort of image but it's much less likely you'll make a mess of sharpening an image with DFS and it's much easier to make a very good job of "difficult" images.
Terry

I would like to add two pence to Terry's post.
I get many emails asking what is a good number to start in Radius or how do I know when I have enough in the strength box?
Good Questions, but there are no precise answers because of factors like: The lighting in the image, the subject, foreground, background, a face.... old or young, wrinkles keep or minimize... on and on....

Next there's the approach!
Terry and I looked at an image we got from a forum member, and used the exact same settings in the REFINE screen and the CURVES in the Editor, and at first the exact same approach to the DFS too.
It was uncanny!
The picture was a beautiful woman(portrait style) sitting.... I woudl guess about 45 years old with the laugh wrinkles around the mouth and the eyes.
The photographer wanted to minimize the wrinkles. I took the approach os using Target Selected Tone and selected the skin color at the wrinkles, and then used a minus strength adding a request to Qimage to sharpen everything unselected which meant, everything except the face skin.

Where to start?
So I knew what I wanted to do, I put a -150 in the strength....   now what?
I clicked a 1 in the Raduis, and with the preview box open (it opens automatically), I held the yellow button to see With/Without the DFS.
I couldn't see any change, so I clicked a 2. Repeat the yellow button test. Barely see any change.
Clicked a 3. Now I can see just enough....
STOPPED THERE!
Do Not over sharpen...

My results were such that the wrinkles softened, but the eyes; the lashes and the irises and the eyeliner make up improved dramatically!
It was a good result.

I hope when Terry reads this, he will take a few moments to give you his approach...

There is no right or wrong!

Remember when I was showing the cat's face with DFS and how very high I could push teh numbers and still no halos or artifacts... ? I hope you all realized those very tall numbers like a 12/350 on that cat were for effect.
In my own cat picture I put them back to a nice level.
Just wanted to clarify....  I get emails, "But you used a 12 radius"... I was making a point! I don't sharpen my real pictures like that.

Questions and thoughts appreciated ...
Fred


Logged
Terry-M
The Honourable Metric Mann
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 3197



View Profile WWW
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2012, 12:16:48 PM »

Quote
I hope when Terry reads this, he will take a few moments to give you his approach...
Yes, I tried 2 different approaches.
First was basically the same as Fred's but rather than use -150% I tried 150% and set Except + with the skin tone selected (same as Fred). This had a similar effect but probably not quite as good as using the -150%.
Secondly, I pushed up the radius to 6! with RGB Except + and the slider at 90%.
I chose "RGB Except" as that is more selective than "Tone Except", the idea being it did not soften the hair too. The Slider at 90% just widened the selectivity a little and gave a good compromise with a softened skin and sharp hair.
The 6 radius made the skin softening more pronounced (I like to flatter the ladies  Grin) and the eyes, hair and teeth more "bite"  Wink

To explain, we cannot show the image because it's not one of ours but hopefully there's enough information to get the idea.

Quote
There is no right or wrong!
I agree of course. I would advise QU users to try approaches that are as different what Fred & I have tried, it only takes a few minutes to do it.
TIP: if you get a result that looks good but you want to try something else, save the filter, using say, the file number and a reference. You can then re-load that if you second attempt is not so good.
Terry
You can even go as far as making a copy image each with different filters and the use the comparator to choose the best.

Logged
Owen Glendower
Full Member
***
Posts: 185


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2012, 03:53:04 PM »

My results were such that the wrinkles softened, but the eyes; the lashes and the irises and the eyeliner make up improved dramatically!
It was a good result.

I've seen some portrait photographers say that for a formal sitting portrait such as you describe, ONLY the eyes should be in sharp focus.  But have you seen the prices on those f1.2 lenses?

Good post.  Got to try your techniques on some informal portraits in my files.
Logged
vsteffel
Full Member
***
Posts: 107



View Profile Email
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2012, 03:58:48 PM »

Fred and Terry,

Thanks for these explanations and suggestions.  They provide me with a few more clues and approaches when using QU.

Vlady
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!