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Author Topic: Cutting/trimming lines/marks  (Read 614 times)
MeesDekker
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« on: February 20, 2021, 01:54:03 PM »

I'm new here, so my question my have answered already, but I could not find the answer in this forum.

Currently I'm printing on A-2 size sheets (420 x 594 mm), that have to be trimmed afterwards to fit exactly 400 x 500 mm. This means trimming off 10 mm on both top/bottom sides and 47mm on both left/right sides (or of course 20mm from the bottom and 94mm from right side).

The actual image is A-3 size and is centered on the page/paper.

Is there (in QImage Ultimate) an easy way to print cutting/trimming lines at the exact position of the required trimming?
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2021, 04:14:26 PM »

There are multiple ways to do this and to figure out which one is best, we'd need to know a little more about your workflow.  Do you intend to work with a 400x500mm page and be able to place multiple prints within that area?  Or are you printing one print per page?  What model printer are you using?  One way to do it would be to cut your sheets to 400x500mm first and use a custom 400x500 media size.  Another way to do it would be to pre-print the cut marks for 400x500mm on each sheet first: place one 400x500mm template on the page in IntelliCenter placement mode, turn on corner marks, and print.  Then refeed those sheets that already have the cut marks when you print.  There are other ways to do it as well, but if you can post a screen shot showing the Qimage UI and live view with a typical setup, that might help us guide you to which method to use.

Regards,
Mike
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MeesDekker
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2021, 04:37:45 PM »

Dear Mike,

Thank you for your very swift and helpfull reply.

I use a CANON ImageProGraf Pro-1000. It does not have a roll-feeder, but works with cut sheets only. I'm preparing an exhibition for my photoclub and that is why all prints have to be 400x500 mm. Only one print (A-3 size) per page, obviously.

Cutting the sheets beforehand would not make much difference: you still have to measure by hand where exactly to trim (I use a Rotatrim Pro M-42).

Your suggestion to print an empty template does do the job, but it has the disadvantage that every sheet has to be feeded twice. So: that almost doubles the time. By the way: corner marks are not printed (on my printer) with an empty template although they do appear on a softproof (is this because they are inside the printed area?), however guidelines are printed OK. But: when cutting the horizontal margin, you also loose the vertical guideline (since guidelines are outside the cutted/trimmed area  Sad )

Best regards,

Mees

Any other suggestion?

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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2021, 06:38:02 PM »

If you are only printing one (400x500) print per sheet, you should be able to just set the print size to 400x500 and then activate crop or corner marks since they will appear at the edge of the 400x500 print.  If you are printing with auto cropping off so that you get a compatible size based on the image's aspect ratio, you could use Template/Centered placement mode and set your size to 400x500: that will place the cut marks on the 400x500 boundary even if your print inside that has some white space.

Regards,
Mike
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BrianPrice
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2021, 06:51:07 PM »

Mees

I think trimming the paper to 500 x 400 first would be my choice, it is easy to set up some sort of guide for the trimmer, and you will always have to trim the prints anyway.

Brian P
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2021, 10:11:56 AM »

I would never cut the sheets to the size of the print page you need in the end.  I would use Corner Marks + 0.5mm white Border+ width added to the border width you already will add or not add. After the print is made cut just within the Corner Marks, you will have two short lines remaining up to the last cut to be made. If the cut print edges fall behind the frame or matte in the end you can even forget the additional 0.5mm and cut on the Corner Mark lines themselves.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

https://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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BrianPrice
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2021, 07:55:48 PM »

Ernst, the problem is with uneven borders, 10mm top and bottom and 47mm on each side. I agree that trimming first is undesirable, but in this case I think it may be the best way.

Brian
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2021, 09:17:42 AM »

Ernst, the problem is with uneven borders, 10mm top and bottom and 47mm on each side. I agree that trimming first is undesirable, but in this case I think it may be the best way.

Brian

Alright, my usual workflow is then adding white canvas to all the images in Photoshop with an action. Only to fill up the 37mm at both sides to keep the file size acceptable, 100% JPGs will not grow much then. The 10,5mm border all around added in Qimage Ultimate. Usually  I do not encounter such wide border differences though.

To create unequal borders in printing  in QU is a longer path in my experience. Although Print to File could do something similar automatically too and use the output of that for the print run. Make a print page of 400,5x500,5 mm, print size A3 centrally. Corner marks added later in the print run. Keep an eye on the assigned color spaces though, they may differ as the files are from different sources. I would probably go for the paper profile added in Print to File and have the print run without CM done to avoid double profiling faults.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

https://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken




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MeesDekker
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2021, 10:11:03 AM »

Thank you all for the tips and answers. I've tried them and they were helpfull. I now understand better how all this can be achieved. But they all have disadvantages: you either almost double the required time (sheet has to be fed twice through the printer) or you have to process the image in PS.

Imho the most convenient way would  be to have in QI the possibility to manually place "guides" (like in Photoshop) to the page/paper. These guides should then also have the option to be printable in full, dotted, coloured, corners only or not at all. And of course: when printed in full, they should not go "over" the image(-s).

Is this anything I can put forward as a request? Because I'm sure many other people encountered this "problem" (and dealed with it by manually placing marks with a pen and ruler).
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2021, 11:41:08 AM »

Thank you all for the tips and answers. I've tried them and they were helpfull. I now understand better how all this can be achieved. But they all have disadvantages: you either almost double the required time (sheet has to be fed twice through the printer) or you have to process the image in PS.

Imho the most convenient way would  be to have in QI the possibility to manually place "guides" (like in Photoshop) to the page/paper. These guides should then also have the option to be printable in full, dotted, coloured, corners only or not at all. And of course: when printed in full, they should not go "over" the image(-s).

Is this anything I can put forward as a request? Because I'm sure many other people encountered this "problem" (and dealed with it by manually placing marks with a pen and ruler).

I think it will not be faster or more reliable if compared to the already existing QU uneven border feature which I find not fast enough. There is a learning video for that one.

If QU had a Canvas like feature in the Image Editor or added to the High Precision Cropping Tool, more or less a crop window that goes over the image size edges then I would favor that. It could be made without actually changing the image file and even on the fly working when added to the HPCT feature. Saved as a filter you can add that 'negative crop' to all the images.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

https://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken



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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2021, 02:01:48 PM »

I'm not understanding why you'd need Photoshop for this.  Why wouldn't you just use Edit, Preferences, Print and Page Formatting, Page Margins in Qimage, and enter the margins on each side to give you a 400x500mm printable area in the middle of the paper?  Then when sizing your prints, use "Fit to Page" size because you've made your "page" 400x500mm.  There are a lot of easy ways to do this in Qimage, none of which require Photoshop.  My suggestion to cut the sheets first only applies if you are trying to batch print multiple prints on an "off size" page.  If we're only talking one print per page, it's a lot easier.

Mike
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BrianPrice
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2021, 11:28:14 AM »

Quote
Edit, Preferences, Print and Page Formatting, Page Margins in Qimage, and enter the margins on each side to give you a 400x500mm printable area in the middle of the paper?  Then when sizing your prints, use "Fit to Page" size because you've made your "page" 400x500mm.

I think the problem with this is that the print size is 297 x 420 mm, not 400 x 500. You can't place a print that size in a 400 x 500mm page and get the corner marks at 400 x 500.
As this is a limited number of prints using canvas size in a photoshop action may be a better solution.

Brian
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2021, 02:47:40 PM »

Quote
I think the problem with this is that the print size is 297 x 420 mm, not 400 x 500. You can't place a print that size in a 400 x 500mm page and get the corner marks at 400 x 500.
As this is a limited number of prints using canvas size in a photoshop action may be a better solution.

Brian


There are two methods for doing that.  The easiest is as follows:

(1) Click the placement button below the live view and select "Template/Centered".
(2) Add your 297 x 400 print.
(3) Under the print sizes on the right, click "Set as the new working size".
(4) Then in the print sizes, select 400 x 500 as the new working size.
(5) Under Cut Marks, select "Mark Corners".

You'll get a 297 x 400 print inside a 400 x 500 template.  The cut marks will appear at the 400 x 500 size in Template/Centered mode.

Regards,
Mike
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MeesDekker
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2021, 05:03:20 PM »

I appreciate all suggestions (thank you for this lively discussion), but at the same time: to me (being a newbie here) it is (more than) a tad confusing. So please: excuse me for asking stupid questions (and being a bit blunt), but back to square 1 please. I consider Mike's latest addition as such.

My image (in Photoshop) has dimensions of 4961 x3508. It is cropped in Photoshop to exactly 420 x 297 mm (A3 at 300 ppi). This is saved as a jpg. I now open QI and select A2 as media size (in the Printers and Settings tab). I select as per Mike suggestion (1) : "template/centered"; my screen is now as in Screenshot 1.

What setting should be used to "Add your 297 x400 print"? If I use "original size", I get Screenshot 2. All of a sudden the actual image is now 294 x 210 (A4) size @ 424ppi, but it has a red line around it at A3 size. What am I doing wrong???

Nevertheless: I set this as "Set this as the new working space". Where do I choose 400 x 500 as the "new working space"? As you can notice in  screenshot 2, this is not available. Should I go under "Custom" or where?

Although I selected "Corner Marks" (I can't find "Mark Corners"), in a soft proof, these marks are not visible.

Obviously: I'm missing something (to say the least). Can anyone clear this for me?
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 05:58:20 PM by MeesDekker » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2021, 09:34:41 PM »

Easier to show you... so you can follow along.  So I made a video response.  Watch to the end because I also show you how to add 420x297 and 400x500 as sizes in your print size list later in the video to make things really easy.

https://youtu.be/WtsT-E1AwMU

Regards,
Mike
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