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Author Topic: Fred -- Regarding Raw Refine  (Read 10508 times)
vdr
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« on: August 16, 2014, 02:22:30 AM »

I have read your discussion posts with Ron where you discussed your workflow for RAW images.
4. Open raw refine for the images I want to check, either as a batch by selecting a set of thumbs or place them in the queue.
The above is the area I am discussing.

I have a selected raw CR2 file (along with other TIF files) in a Test Folder.  This file is as downloaded from the Canon Camera using the Canon DPP software and a card reader.
I am attempting to try to use the Qimage RAW processing with this image and (when finished) to be saved as an 8bit TIF file -- or print to file as a TIF file.

I tried to follow your steps but they evidently are based on a person being somewhat familiar with the various steps you listed.
I failed to be able to get step 4 operational since I did not find the place to "Open Raw Refine".

Any help will be appreciated.

Vernon....
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vdr
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 02:31:39 AM »

Fred, I found the Raw Refine option.  It was at a lower part of the overall list of options and the small UP indicator was mixed with the row of quick start icons.  I found it and clicked to move the entire list upward and available.

I will continue with my processing of the RAW file and see if I "lose my way" again

Regards, Vernon....
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Terry-M
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2014, 07:32:09 AM »

Hi Vernon,
There are several ways to access raw refine. See screen shots below, "RMB" = right mouse button for context menu.
Hope that helps
Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2014, 10:34:02 AM »

Vern,
Terry has covered the entrances to the Refine screen for you.
I do have one more secret passage that you have to promise not to tell.
I use it very often to tweak a raw.   Sometimes, when I want to add Smart Color to an image, the whole image might get a tick too bright.
From the Editor screen, I open Refine, tick the Fill down 1, and Save, while still in the Editor
See screen snap 068
Sometimes, people that come to Qimage Ultimate from Photo Shop, feel compelled to use every slider they can find, just because......
I find that Qimage does a great job on my raws....  and rarely, usually when I send stuff to Terry, he catches a hot spot I missed because I was concentrating on a diving bird, and his eye was drawn to a glare spot. He tells me to fix it. I go into refine and take care of it.

Why make a Tif?
I can find no compelling reason to create a Tif for printing.
As a matter of fact, there are times when I make a print and see something that needs  a tick more Fill or less fill, or a reflection I missed.
I take care of it in Refine... and reprint. Why would I need to remake the Tif?
Hope this helps,
Fred
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Fred A
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2014, 02:08:49 PM »

Quote
Terry has covered the entrances to the Refine screen for you.

One more that I just remembered.
If you select multiple raw thumbs, and then activate the little "Action ball" multicolored icon at the lower left of every raw thumb, then you get the refine screen in multi image mode as well as single.
This is great because I usually stare at the Right Mouse menu trying to remember which "Refine Raw Exposure" is for multiples.

Fred
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vdr
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 07:55:30 PM »

Thanks to both.  I have used Qimage (very rarely) for any type of image post processing so even though I have been using QI for over 10 years -- it is for printing either to my different Models of Epson printers or print to TIF file for some special purpose or use.

I must admit, I selected one of the most complicated CR2 raw files that was an exposure of our local Family Members in our "preferred Mexican Restaurant" with the usual assorted colors of walls, ceiling, ets;  and decorative items as well as mixed lighting that has always been VERY challenging to get the correct colors as well as natural skin tones and to continue to have basically the same "atmosphere and mood" of the Restaurant -- which even though rather different, it is very beautiful.

I did make progress last evening with processing this CR2 raw file but I continue to have the usual issues as discussed above.

These issues seem to be there regardless of what software I use to process the CR2 file and convert to TIF and use Photoshop for the remaining post processing.  I have tested with several different types of software trying to find a combination (for this type image) and I have somewhat of a "battle" trying to get the best final image -- regardless of the software mix I use.

I will continue to try to get improved results using Qimage and see what my best final image is.  I am NOT trying to "Bake or otherwise over process or adjust" for a final image other than a GOOD natural image (for that lighting, interior, but also to have skin tones to be natural) and not "take on" the surrounding mixed lighting effects or reflections.  I realize that I could process each of the many Family members for better skin tones but I am hoping to find a method that can be processed with good results without "individual" post processing -- primarily to use for future images exposed in the same environment.  Even using (higher powered) External Flash, basically the same issue exists with all exposed CR2 images.  I sometimes expose for CR2 plus JPG but the JPG images are less applicable for getting better post processed images than when using CR2 as the source.           
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admin
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2014, 05:44:41 PM »

What model camera?  The two things that affect mood and lighting the most are white balance and fill.  Try using the dropper on different areas of gray/white in the image to see which one works best.  Sometimes using the WB dropper on one side of a white post, for example, will produce a completely different mood than the adjoining edge of the same post.  It all depends on what light was hitting your main subjects.  This is particularly challenging if you have mixed lighting: and using flash in indoor lighting will certainly give you mixed lighting where WB shifts by location.  The other thing you want to do is try not to go over about +10 on fill light, as the fill light changes contrast in different areas and can affect skin tones depending on how (well) your subjects are lit.

Might be an interesting challenge if you want to send me, Fred, and/or Terry the image to see what we can do with it.

Regards,
Mike
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vdr
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2014, 07:18:20 PM »

Thanks for he reply:
The CR2 file I am experimenting with is exposed with a Canon 50D.  It has many of our Family Members -- some of which don't want any of the images distributed or posted in the usual Photo Forums -- and I certainly respect their wishes regarding this.  I will check my various CR2 files and see if there is (one or more) that may be used that have comparable difficulty with the previously mentioned environmental conditions regarding Mixed Lighting, Wall/Ceiling colores, etc -- that could be used to work with.

I have two other Canon Digital Cameras 20D and a 1DS MK II but I don't have any applicable images exposed with the 1DS MKII since it is fairly new (to me) and so far no images at the Mexican Restaurant.

Regarding, White Balance -- I am aware of the variations of different samplings giving somewhat different results.  Also, so far (over a few years) I have been able to accomplish ONLY acceptable results with excessive post processing work -- (for images exposed in the Mexican Restaurant) -- regarding the colors and skin tones.
Our Son has advanced Canon Cameras and lens and He indicates having the same difficulties with his RAW images exposed at the same place.
 
Careful adjustments using Color Balance in Photoshop seems to have been a "reasonably" effectice tool along with Selective colors especially using different selected areas with Layers.  These are about the main images I have excessive difficulties with RAW conversion to TIF (usually 16 bit) and also with Post pricessing.

Usually, it is not necessary to use excessive Fill Light especially with properly exposed images-- also levels (for R,G,B) have helped with overall clarity and exposure.  Also, Fill Light seems to have somewhat different effects for Highlights as compared to Shadow areas.  I use limited "selective" sharpening that also helps with proper contrast without "burn out" for Highlights.

I will check all my Canon Raw Folders for comparable file (or files) to be used for testing as you have mentioned.
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vdr
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2014, 07:52:27 PM »

I have reviewed all Canon Raw files exposed in the Mexican Restaurant and sorry that there are no files that don't contain Family Members.  This probably is logical since most are of some type of Family Gathering for Birthdays, Anniversaries, Graduations, etc; for which most Family Members are usually present.

Sorry that I don't have at least one image that could be shared especially since I need an improved "work flow" for these type images.

Mt Regards and thanks to all that helped.
Vernon....
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Fred A
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2014, 08:22:19 PM »

Quote
I have reviewed all Canon Raw files exposed in the Mexican Restaurant and sorry that there are no files that don't contain Family Members.

So go out for supper soon and take a fresh couple of shots!

Fred
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 12:21:32 AM »

Or, if you want to just share one or two with me, Fred, or Terry and you specify that they are for our eyes only, we can just share our results with you directly and not on any online areas.  Up to you.

Mike
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