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Author Topic: Having trouble understanding HDR  (Read 1337 times)
CHoffman
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« on: April 25, 2021, 03:10:47 PM »

OK, I haven't used this much, but the controls aren't making a lot of sense to me. I start out setting exposure with one of the 9 squares. Then I use the fill and HDR sliders. Every time I touch the HDR slider, it reverts the fill back to zero. When I get what I think I want, and save it, the same image opened in the editor doesn't seem to have my adjustments. Nor are they preserved if I try to refine again. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Conrad
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2021, 04:01:58 PM »

That's not normal behavior and it indicates that something is preventing Qimage from saving the refine adjustments.  It could be anything from folder permissions to an anti-virus program intercepting file saves.  The first step might be to disable any anti-malware software temporarily, then test it to see if the problem goes away.

Regards,
Mike
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CHoffman
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2021, 06:03:06 PM »

The root of the problem is that the fill setting is never being saved. I've disabled pretty much everything on startup and the only virus program is Windows Defender. I've installed the latest version, also tried installation and launch as administrator. The rest of the raw refinements do seem to be saved. If it's a clue, the fill setting is never reflected in the thumbnail appearance. All suggestions gratefully accepted!

edit- if I hold shift while starting, everything works as it should, and continues to work correctly on subsequent launching, even if I don't hold shift. Perhaps I'm too old to be using computers?

Thanks,
Conrad
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 06:23:35 PM by CHoffman » Logged
CHoffman
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2021, 11:08:54 PM »

Getting closer to the bottom of this. Everything was working correctly until I went into preferences and put my RAW processing choices back to where I like them. Then the problem showed right back up. I'll investigate a bit further and determine which setting is culprit.

edit- I've been wrong before (just ask my wife!) but it appears that auto fill light must be turned on in RAW processing for fill to be saved in RAW refine and for HDR to work correctly. Is it a feature or a bug?  Grin
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 11:25:34 PM by CHoffman » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2021, 01:59:10 PM »

Thanks for the detective work!  Smiley  I'll have to run some scenarios and see.  Sounds like a bug to me.

Mike
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Terry-M
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2021, 04:00:51 PM »

Hi Mike,
Can I add one observation about RAW Refine this thread - something I've been meaning to ask for some time.
When ODR is used in Raw Refine, Highlight Recovery (HDR v2) works far more effectively than when ODR is Off. It even works when Fill is Zero or even a negative value.

With ODR Off, the effectiveness of HDR varies depending on the amount of Fill, much more so than when ODR is on. If Fill is Zero or negative then HDR is not possible.

Is there a reason for this difference or can HDR, with ODR Off, be made to work the same as when ODR is On?

Thanks, Terry
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2021, 04:36:20 PM »

That's highly dependent on the image itself: if the image doesn't have a particularly high dynamic range, HDR will have little to work with.  When you use ODR, you are effectively taking a low dynamic range image and making it into a high dynamic range which is why HDR has more effect.  The same is true for fill in that the fill affects the dynamic range.

Regards,
Mike
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CHoffman
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2021, 02:27:38 AM »

Just for entertainment, here's a RAW from my Z6 that has some nice highlights in the center that need to be recovered, and a tree with a shadow area that needs to be lightened up. I was shooting more or less into the sun and it just has to qualify as a good subject for HDR. It was the file I started having trouble with. My preferred RAW settings are no sharpening, no equalization, no noise filters, no smartcolor, no auto fill (but need that on so save works) and default everything else. I find the Z6 images need very little processing at that stage; everything else I like to mess with on an image-to-image basis.

http://www.conradhoffman.com/rawtest/DSC_1186.NEF

Enjoy,
CH
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2021, 04:46:35 AM »

I don't find that image needs any HDR.  It needs a magenta box to mark the brightest highlights, some white balance, and marking two areas of interest with ODR.

Mike
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CHoffman
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2021, 10:44:06 AM »

Hi Mike- thanks! I did the same with the magenta box, something similar with the yellow, but what's the thought process behind the white box? Also, what determines if an image is a candidate for HDR?
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2021, 02:31:46 PM »

Yellow box marks the overall area of interest.  I added the white ODR box to tell QU to put an even finer focus on the water: a smaller box actually has a higher weight so it tunes in the water a little better.

HDR is primarily for use when using fill light.  Use of fill light can wash out the highlights: HDR brings that back.  I find that both fill and HDR can be avoided by using the right ODR box(es).

Regards,
Mike
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CHoffman
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2021, 02:54:22 PM »

Thanks! I didn't appreciate that a smaller box would have more weight, not less. My HDR assumption was that this image has a huge dynamic range but OTOH I suppose you could say that about any image with a specular highlight and a shadow.  Grin
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« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2021, 07:43:59 PM »

edit- I've been wrong before (just ask my wife!) but it appears that auto fill light must be turned on in RAW processing for fill to be saved in RAW refine and for HDR to work correctly. Is it a feature or a bug?  Grin

Fixed in 2021.106.

Regards,
Mike
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CHoffman
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2021, 02:29:22 PM »

Works great! Thanks!
CH
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