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Author Topic: HP Z3100 and Qimage Ultimate not printing specified size  (Read 17216 times)
dereknz
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« on: November 30, 2010, 03:42:28 AM »

Hi, new here and hoping to get some help

Printing on my HP Z3100 using Qimage Ulimate the finished print is not always the size specified. My latest print for example is a clients work printed on A3+ paper. Print Properties set on Qimage to custom 420x315mm, auto crop off so qimage preview shows finished size will be 315.0mm x 419.8mm. Margins set to center the image on paper. When printed the image is stretched on the length by 10mm to 315x430mm. the image also is off center, 10mm less white boarder at the bottom than at the top. The file is 18.69MB 8bit 2212 x 2948 pixels psd file. My client uses a mac

I reprinted changing the Print Properties to A3 (297x420mm) auto crop off, centered and printed and got the same 10mm stretch. Qimage preview shows 297.0 x 395.0mm and printed on the A3 fine art paper 297x405, also off center again

I have the Professional Edition version and have recently purchased the Ultimate version. Loading the Professional version and setting Print Properties to A3, View/Print Queue shows 297x396mm for the same psd file. Printing from Professional Edition version the print prints to the correct size. 297x396mm

« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 03:45:17 AM by dereknz » Logged
Fred A
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 10:28:36 AM »

Quote
Printing on my HP Z3100 using Qimage Ulimate the finished print is not always the size specified. My latest print for example is a clients work printed on A3+ paper. Print Properties set on Qimage to custom 420x315mm, auto crop off so qimage preview shows finished size will be 315.0mm x 419.8mm. Margins set to center the image on paper. When printed the image is stretched on the length by 10mm to 315x430mm. the image also is off center, 10mm less white boarder at the bottom than at the top. The file is 18.69MB 8bit 2212 x 2948 pixels psd file.

Good morning, Derek,

Unfortunately volumes have been written about HP's buggy drivers, starting with the main culprit, the Z3100.
Many have written to HP, called HP and it has been discussed on many forums, enough that one could be sure they heard, but decided to ignore.
The work around is to open Qimage, go to Help, and then RESET PRINTER SETTINGS.

Somehow the HP driver decides on its own to not only size the print, but position it too.
Also, do not use your old printer setups that you created a while back. Set the driver for paper type, quality, and color management that you use, no scaling or anything like that.
This will fix the problem.

Good luck!
Fred
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dereknz
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2010, 01:50:12 AM »

Thanks for your quick response Fred

I have done as you suggested resetting the printer setting via Ultimate. Unfortunately this has not fixed the problem. Still adding on 10mm along the length when printing the A3 size, the image would be in the center of the paper if the extra 10mm wasn't added on.

I usually go into the printer setup each time I print unless I'm using the same media and paper size. Entering the Ultimates printer/page setup prior to printing to check the printer settings and change if necessary. Paper type is set on printer when paper gets loaded in, quality is adjusted as required in printer settings, colour management is always set to "Application managed colors", and resizing set to "Actual size"

Printing smaller size 169x127mm via Ultimate the image prints at 169x131mm, Professional Edition prints 169x127mm, printing from CS3 the print comes out at 169x127mm.

'Resetting the printer' using Ulitmate the printed image turned out flatter with less contrast and less black. I found I needed to turn the printer off then on again before I was able to get printing back to normal.

Derek
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2010, 08:36:57 AM »


Derek,

Z3100 with the PCL3 driver?

Not directly related to the issue: To make sure you don't have to return to the driver settings too often it is wise to create another default of driver settings in the printer preferences: fax-printer settings etc. For example fix the color management on Application controlled there and you do not have to check that again and again. Creating Printing Shortcuts in the driver for some other more often used settings works better too than adjusting the driver settings per job. I also use Tiff and Jpeg as image formats. For example PSD's original size isn't recognised by Qimage.

I never had a stretch on one dimension of an image while the other kept the original size but with some odd Qimage crop issues in the past. And so far not with Ultimate either. I will try to create the same conditions. Any other setting used than Standard in the driver's Layout and Margins options? I see you use Actual Size in the resizing options, so that is alright. You are sure there is an aspect ratio change in the printed image, not small image crops on the print direction that kept the right size?


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Spectral plots of +175 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm


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dereknz
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 11:15:56 AM »

Ernst

Thanks for your comments and time spent on your reply. Yes have the PCL3 driver. I have default of driver settings in the Z3100 printer preferences: fax-printer settings with color management set on 'Application managed colors', Margins/Layout on 'Standard' and Resizing Options at 'Actual size'. Do have some printing shortcuts saved in the driver but could do with adding more. I'll copy the psd file to a Tiff when back at work see if it prints to the correct size. Just thought I would mention Picture Framing is my core business, this is my 1st large format printer even though I have had it for a while now am still novice at printing.   

I didn't notice any minor cropping but will check when back at work. Running on XP Pro 32bit though a router to the Z3100.

Derek
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Fred A
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2010, 12:06:07 PM »

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I see you use Actual Size in the resizing options, so that is alright. You are sure there is an aspect ratio change in the printed image, not small image crops on the print direction that kept the right size?

Ernst,
Since you have that printer and are really adept with it, would it not be helpful to ask Derek for screen snaps of specific screens that might be set wrong; and, since he has success printing from the Pro Edition, match screen capture snaps of the driver settings when printing from Qimage Pro and the settings of the driver when printing from Ultimate?
Driver version ??

Fred
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2010, 12:50:41 PM »

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I see you use Actual Size in the resizing options, so that is alright. You are sure there is an aspect ratio change in the printed image, not small image crops on the print direction that kept the right size?

Ernst,

Driver version ??

Fred

Fred,

It still is possible that there is a difference between Studio Pro and Ultimate that affects Z3100 driver output and no other printer but we will check the odd HP parts first.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Spectral plots of +175 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm



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Fred A
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 01:03:23 PM »

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It still is possible that there is a difference between Studio Pro and Ultimate that affects Z3100 driver output and no other printer but we will check the odd HP parts first.

Ernst,
Yes of course anything is possible.... but Mike always taught us to accept the print size that Qimage reports, as the size that is being sent to the driver.
But in the course of programming, and adding features, sometimes, interaction occurs that was unexpected, and weird things happen.
So I have to defer to your deductions based on having the actual printer, actual driver, and both versions of Qimage.

Then maybe passing some information that you may find on to Mike, he may be able to shed some light on the problem.

In case I miss timing with you, happy holidays!
Fred
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 01:36:07 PM »

Derek,

The screen shot is helpful.  The queue shows 297.0 x 395.8.  That size is not an estimate: it is exact and is calculated from the actual printed rectangle that is sent to the printer driver.  So Qimage is sending 7016 x 9350 pixels to the driver at 600 PPI.  7016/600 x 9350/600 is 11.693 x 15.583 inches = 297.0 x 395.8 mm.  So it is a guarantee that Qimage is sending the proper dimensions to the driver which means the Z3100 driver is modifying those to stretch the length.  In effect, the driver is running at 600 PPI horizontally but due to some bug, is running at 586 PPI in the vertical direction.  If it was truly running 600 PPI as it should, there is no other way to print the 9350 pixels that Qimage sent in the vertical direction but to print them in 395.8mm.

So we're left with a Z3100 driver anomaly.  I know that many people have experienced seemingly random issues with the driver when they save a lot of setups (paper sizes and such) in the driver itself.  People say that too many of those causes a problem.  I don't know if that could be an issue or not.  When you reset printer settings in Qimage, were you careful not to load any printer setups (or jobs or ANYTHING) after you started Qimage the next time?  When you reset printer settings, it is important to set the driver manually without loading any saved settings.  Even if you selected a printer profile and answered "Yes" to the question about loading the settings that were last used with that profile, you are loading an old setup.  We want to stay away from loading old setups because something could be corrupted in those.  If you were careful to do everything manually after the reset and you still have the problem, we are left with a driver bug as the likely culprit.  Can't say I'd be surprised at that.  Nothing against the Z3100 or other HP hardware as the hardware is excellent.  HP drivers, on the other hand, aren't the most well written drivers out there.  The Z3100 is the buggiest printer driver on the market followed by the B9180 and then the B8850 running third place for it's known bugs with not being able to use ICC profiles properly.  

That said, I know there are plenty who work around the driver issues with few problems.  What I can say is that the low level print routine in Ultimate is identical to that in Pro and Studio as are the calculations that give you the print size displayed in the queue or on the preview page.  So the fact that you get a different size in Ultimate than Pro is what lead me to ask the question about whether or not you are sure you reset settings and then did everything manually from scratch: because it sounds like some driver setting is being recalled differently.

As a last resort, you could use "Help", "Reset all program settings" in Qimage and then set everything up manually since that is like starting from a fresh Qimage installation.  But other than that, I don't have any other suggestions from the Qimage side.  Anything else would come from the HP driver side of the house.

Mike
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 01:39:31 PM by Mike Chaney » Logged
dereknz
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 02:16:13 PM »

Mike

I will reset the printer when back at work just to make sure I hadn't reloaded any old setups. Pretty sure I had clicked no when selecting printer profile for loading the settings.

Derek
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dereknz
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 11:01:36 PM »

Hi

Thanks Mike for your reply earlier. Before going back to work I printed on my home desktop HP K550 A4 printer via Ultimate and the smaller print size 169x127mm and printed to the correct size, also tried at work on my HP220 desktop and also printed correct size. then the Z3100, the print image was stretched. Used the 'Reset the Printer' setting via Ultimate while the Z3100 was shown in there as the default printer and making sure I used no old setups, changed the paper size in the driver everything else was left on default settings, paper icc in Ultimate changed clicking 'no' for restoring settings. Printing the same 297x395mm print size as yesterday the print came out stretched again by 10mm. Used the 'Reset all Program Settings' and printed out again not using any old setups, print stretched 10mm again.

I remembered not long after purchasing the printer with it's earlier firmware and drivers I had problems trying to print my large files to 1.5m long prints set on best quality. Only way I found I could print them then without dropping the quality was by bypassing XPs spool file and using the 'print directly to the printer' option.

Tried this and now the Z3100 is printing to the correct size as shown in the Ultimate preview 297x395mm.

The printer has the latest driver 61.101.366.41 Aug 2010 and Firmware 7.0.0.3-7. My Windows XP Pro 32bit is set on auto update and up to date.

I'm happy to come up with a solution to get it to print the right size

Derek


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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2010, 01:08:30 AM »

Holy Moly!  Thanks for that... that could help other people and I'll keep it in mind.  It sounds like the Z3100 doesn't play nice with the XP spooler: seems crazy that just making that setting change alters the size of the print!  I may suggest that people use that "print directly to printer" option at least as a diagnostic tool whenever they have size issues with the Z3100.  I get the feeling that, knowing this, there may be another workaround that doesn't involve having to eliminate the spooler.  Have you tried both the EMF and RAW spool options in Qimage under "Edit", "Preferences", "Printing Options"?  You may want to try both with the spooler on because this sounds like a data format issue between the Z3100 driver and the Windows spooler.

Regards,
Mike
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dereknz
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2010, 04:51:56 AM »

Thanks for the info Mike

I will try the EMF and Raw spool options tomorrow. 5.51pm here in NZ now and time to pack up and go home.

Derek
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2010, 09:17:15 AM »

Holy Moly!  Thanks for that... that could help other people and I'll keep it in mind.  It sounds like the Z3100 doesn't play nice with the XP spooler: seems crazy that just making that setting change alters the size of the print!  I may suggest that people use that "print directly to printer" option at least as a diagnostic tool whenever they have size issues with the Z3100.  I get the feeling that, knowing this, there may be another workaround that doesn't involve having to eliminate the spooler.  Have you tried both the EMF and RAW spool options in Qimage under "Edit", "Preferences", "Printing Options"?  You may want to try both with the spooler on because this sounds like a data format issue between the Z3100 driver and the Windows spooler.

Regards,
Mike

RAW , Hpzpp5nn printprocessor is the default and I have that setting + I use the spooler all the time. Keep the print data in memory too as it speeds up mutiple run printing when activated there.

There is a related issue I have seen in the past. If I had the print data kept in memory and the printer or system was switched off then I could be sure that if I restarted a print run in the spooler the sizes were wrong, usually small prints appeared on large print pages where if correct the images should fit the large print page. I wrote about that. It didn't happen with the Epsons I had before but happened with the Z3100 right away. I thought then that part of the size data isn't in the printer data file and the printer checks for a size name or size and when not available uses a default. If the connection has not been switched off there must be link that keeps the printer informed about the size.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/


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« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2010, 07:19:04 PM »

There is a related issue I have seen in the past. If I had the print data kept in memory and the printer or system was switched off then I could be sure that if I restarted a print run in the spooler the sizes were wrong, usually small prints appeared on large print pages where if correct the images should fit the large print page. I wrote about that. It didn't happen with the Epsons I had before but happened with the Z3100 right away. I thought then that part of the size data isn't in the printer data file and the printer checks for a size name or size and when not available uses a default. If the connection has not been switched off there must be link that keeps the printer informed about the size.

If that's happening then the entire job wasn't saved in memory, or... it was saved but it isn't being restored in its entirety.  When you send data to a printer via Windows, you open an instance of the driver (when you click "printer setup for example") and all the things like paper sizes, quality, color management, etc. are set in that printer object.  At the same time, Windows reports the size of the printer's canvas in pixels and in inches.  You then place pixels on the page to form the exact size you need.  Those pixels are supposed to go to the predefined object that they belong to.  If you shut off some equipment, restart, and you get the wrong sizes, it means that the Windows printer object is not being reinstated (entirely) and some of the data in that object has been lost.  Theoretically when you save it, the entire object should be saved including paper sizes and all driver parameters along with the pixel data.  Sounds like it's going ahead with the pixel data without restoring the entire contents of the actual printer object that contains the paper size and other params.  The fault for that lies with whatever program you used to save the data when you say you "have the print data kept in memory".

Mike
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