Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

I have the latest build of Qimage Ultimate.  Using an Epson 1400 printer with borderless checked.

This is really a continuation of a thread I posted last year.

I have an image that is 8-1/2 x 11 inches.

If I drag that image onto a template, regardless of how I do that (fit to page or original size), the image always shifts to the left and shifts to the top.

I always select centered.

That leaves me with a right and bottom border that is larger than what I started with, and a left and top border that is smaller.

I have searched this via Google, as well as this board, and have not found a solution.

This happens in both a print and in a print-to-file.

Is it my printer driver that is causing this?

When looking at the image that is dragged to the template, I can see a little extra white space on the right and bottom.

Not sure if that matters.

Alan

Allen,
First thing that comes to mind is the auto crop scissor button. It must be ON.
You can check it by hovering over the upper right preview image. It will show the print size. If it doesn't match the borderless page size, the crop is OFF
Let me know.
Fred

Allen,
A couple of screen snaps to guide you.
Fit to Page with crop off.
Fit to page with Crop on   .... see the size numbers match
Page Editor showing zero margins when Crop is on with fit to page.

Fred

Fred.  Thank you very much for your prompt response.

I created a test image with a black border of 1/8" all around.  The print-to-file export looked fine.

When I drag this image to the template (template-centered print placement), both with and without the Auto Crop On, and print the page and view in portrait mode, I have no black border showing at the top and bottom and probably 1/32" on the left -- slightly more at the top than bottom.  Only a small portion of the lower right contains a sliver of ink -- about 1-1/2 up the page.

My test image is 8-1/2 x 11.  In page editor view, it showed the image as 8.5 x 11 but I did not see the print location fields you show in your image.

Below is a screen shot of the template.

Sorry, Allen, not following you.
Templates show as RED on the preview page.
Why are you using a template?

If you are referring to the edges oof the image that you see on your snap, that means nothing.
Show a screen snap of the Page Editor which will show size and margins on the page.
Mine shows ZERO all the way around.
Next, looking at your screen snap, you have Template Centered selected, not Center.

I also attached a snap of what a template looks like.Wouldn't fit in the message. Will add after

Now here's what I do/did!  I set my image into the queue using Fit to page, crop on. Center Placement, no template needed.
Next, I go into the Page editor and Right click on the image and choose add a Mat.
Make the Border size 0.125 all the way around in Black
You must use the Shrink image to accommodate border when It's Fit To Page, (I'm sure you know that)
I'm done!!
To double check, simply click on the image to select (Still in the Page Editor) It will toggle from image to border and back each time you click.
If you select the image, it will show a print size of 8.25 x 10.75, instead of the 8.5 x 11. It shows there's a 1/4 inch short allowing for the 1/8 inch border on both ends
It also shows 0.12 is a space all the way around that it has appropriated for the border.
.
Now click again on the image.
Now you have the image and border selected and they are FULL PAGE, FIT TO PAGE.

Allen,
Let's look at it this way.
If you have Borderless selected, and the printable area is showing the same size as the paper size, which yours does, and you add an image with crop on, it will fill the page when you select Fit To Page as the size, That is saying I have a 5 gallon jug of milk, filled to very brim with 5 gallons of milk. There's no room to slosh.
That's like you have no room for the image to move up or to the left. It cannot be.
OK that being said,


Do I understand that you printed it and it was all messed up?

If that is so. please check the driver, and make sure the Layout tab is showing Output size same as Paper size... no numbers in there.

Fred

There are two tabs in the Page editor
One is Cropping, and the second is Size/Location.
That's the tab you want that will show you where you are.

I assumed the box that I drag the image to was called a template.  

Page Editor screenshot below.

Alan

Printer Properties.

Let me just ask this question and get it out of the way.  Can I actually print an 8-1/2 x 11 image on 8-1/2 x 11 paper?  If that is my problem and I cannot do that then I will quit wasting everyone's time with this thread.

And to answer your previous question, yes, my print did not print as stated in my post.  It was off by at least 1/8" top and bottom at minimum.

When I drag an image to the box, does that "preview" have any bearing on what the print will actually look like?

Alan

Instead of me saying YES, it will print an 8.5 x 11, I am printing one as I type.

Yes full bleed, edge to edge full 8.5 x 11 borderless. I have the print in my hand.

Yes, it is a preview of what the print will look like, albeit in low resolution.

OK look at my snap carefully.
There are three pieces of relevant information.
1) By hovering the mouse cursor over the image, I see the actual print size.
2) At the very top I see the printable area is 8.5 x 11, same as paper size.
3) At the very bottom, in that blue/green strip, Qimage is telling you the exact size of the print that it is sending to the driver.
(Click Print Queue tab to see this)

Now we are sure that Qimage is sending a full borderless print to the driver.

Move on....
Your driver is not set correctly somewhere.
I see that not setting to a premium type paper will cause the driver to ignore your check mark in borderless.
Is your paper loading tightly to the guides? Guides too wide, paper might be floating?
Is the paper a standard brand and size, or something that was cut  from a roll or a large sheet ?

Have you tried to print it my way, the Qimage way?

Set driver to Borderless and Premium Glossy or Luster at Letter size 8.5 x 11
Click the Zebra button on the thumbnail of the image, and when the print properties box opens, Turn on Crop, and click Fit to Page.
Click the + button of that same thumbnail
You new have the  image in the queue ready to print to 8.5 x 11.
PRINT .... just print!!!   If that doesn't get it done, you have printer problems.
NO TEMPLATE... keep it simple. Let's get the full sheet printed.
Then we can add a border  or two or three.
Fred

The Qimage "simple way" printed exactly the same.  I am using Epson Premium Presentation Matte paper pre-cut. It's the only paper I have. I will not waste any more of your time. I'll get help from other forums.

Below is the image I have been attempting to print as a test. 90% of the black border does not appear on the final print.

Thanks for your time.

Alan

Alan,
I doubt it, Fred is a real expert in the use of QU and the program developer keeps an eye on things and posts regularly.
We often have to wade through problems where there is insufficient detail, questions about set-up are not answered, wrong terminology used and misconceptions on how QU works.  ::)
Going back to your original post:
This is on the page preview on the main screen and it does not matter - it is merely a "preview".
Fred has told you that the accurate position of an image on a page is shown in the Page Editor Size/Location tab.
He's also told you you were wasting time and using Template Centred inappropriately, I hope you've got that now.
In your last post you said:
You need to understand how borderless printing works, the driver expands the image and coverage of the nozzles to OVERLAP the page size so no white edges are seen at all.
You can see in your driver screen shot a slider showing the level of expansion set to Max - you are bound to loose some of the image at this setting.
QU has a setting to eliminate the expansion completely:
Edit-Preferences-Print and Page Formatting-Borderless Overspray/Expansion. See screen shot below.

A health warning comes with this setting that Fred has already mentioned too: unless your printer feed and guides are perfect, you are likely to set white slivers at some of print edges.
One final point to check since the subject of this thread is "Margin Shifting".
Check that additional page margins have not been set in QU in the Edit-Preferences-Print and Page Formatting again.
See screen shot below which shows almost zero margins when borderless is set in the driver. I don't know why the driver is showing this tiny "fixed" amount on 2 sides, maybe it's a feature of my R2000.
Terry

Allen,
You say you did it the simple way, but you didn't!
I said no borders until after we get a full bleed print since you were questioning the ability of the printer to do this.
Then I said, we can add, 1, 2 or three borders.
Terry caught my aim right away.
I would then add a border and if some of it was missing, you would literally see that the expansion had expanded the border off the page.

So be it.... I tried..

Fred

Alan


This happens when borderless expansion is turned on (it is by default). You need to turn it off in the printer driver or in QI using
Edit>Preferences>Print Formatting>Borderless Overspray>Disable

Brian

After I signed off this forum, I went to DPR and asked my question on the Printers and Printing Forum.  The first reply was simple and accurate: Your image is being enlarged and that is why your sample with the 1/8" border is not printing correctly.  With Canon printers, and some newer Epson printers, this overspray can be adjusted, as I found out later.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I did not see that information in any of Fred's comments prior to me getting frustrated.  So yes, I did find out more at another forum.  I found out exactly what the "problem" was.

Sorry Allen that we couldn't help you.
Unfortunately, we were reading all sort of mixed signals like:
Can my printer really cover the entire page?
I have a corner where no ink sprayed.
I am in Center Placement!  Really?
I drag on to the template and it's still not right!


We all saw what you were doing; Terry, Brian and myself.
We all knew it was the MAX expansion setting!

Since I had replied first, Terry and Brian hung back.
Since you had not shown a grasp of your printer nor Qimage, I decided to have you print a borderless print, then add a border to your image and actually see, as we decrease the expansion setting how and why your border was not visible.

People mess up driver settings all the time.
They turn on Scaling, they reset the output page size, they use Saved Driver setups.
I had to be sure you had the proper sizes of page and print set in Qimage. I asked for verification before I can be positive that it was the Expansion.

Since you choose to disparage the person/people  that tried to help you, feel free to get help from any source you like.
Again, (Speaking only for myself) my apology!

Fred

Fred. I like the way you say I disparage you then you turn around and label me as clueless. Good job!

You say you knew all along it was overexpansion.  Really?  Can you note which post you stated that in prior to Terry's post?

Allen Alan

Alan,
I think it needs to be pointed out that it was not until your 5th post (#11) that it became clear what your problem really was:
I note too that your post on the DPR forum stated the problem clearly, apparently after Fred's quizzing, we did help you to do that!
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54489776 (http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/54489776)
Prior to that Fred had been trying to get to the bottom of it by making sure you were using QU correctly and extract information from you. Then I and others were able to understand what was going on. So Fred's posts did eventfully get a clear statement of what your problem was.
This was not an unusual situation, we often have to ask what may seem irrelevant questions to get to the bottom of a problem, sometimes they are answered in full and sometimes they are not.
However this is usually a very friendly forum and we are not used to rudeness of the kind you have supplied: #17.
It seems that you are inexperienced in the workings of printer drivers and in the use of QU so I suggest if you need to ask any more questions here, you do your best to state the problem clearly, be patient when questions and suggestions are made in attempting to answer, and be polite please!
Terry