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Author Topic: My prints are smaller than specified dimensions.  (Read 12353 times)
sectionq
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« on: May 27, 2011, 11:16:24 PM »

Hi all,

Having a bit of a problem with my canvas prints coming out with the wrong dimensions.

I'm printing onto roll canvas at 604mm (24inch). Today I pulled in an image with custom borders and fold marks, the original size dimensions were 751.1mm x 550mm at 180ppi as reported by qimage. I selected original size and checked that when hovering the dimensions were the same which they were.

When it printed I measured with a ruler and found that I had lost about 5mm from both the horizontal and vertical edge.
The weirdest thing is that when I measured the fold marks, one side was correct and the other had lost about 3 or 4mm. So what it looks like is that in one direction it is shrinking uniformly and in the other it is just shrinking the outside 150mm border.

I've been noticing that when I wrap my canvas that in one dimension it's always perfect and in the other what should be at the side is showing on the front, today's the first time I've actually measured the print so that explains it.

In the print driver I've selected 'banner', page size is defined as 610mm x 760mm for this image and save roll paper is checked.

Any ideas? Is it simply a case of making the page bigger, maybe q is deciding that it won't fit and scaling it down by a fraction to compensate?

Thanks in advance.

sQ
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sectionq
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2011, 11:32:53 PM »

I've just checked out the 'Printing on roll paper without setting paper size' post, maybe this is the problem.

I'm currently leaving only 10mm extra length on the paper, q centers the image which only leaves a border of around 4 or 5mm and my print driver border is set to 3mm, could this be the issue?

Cheers

sQ
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Terry-M
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2011, 07:50:03 AM »

Hi sQ
This may not be much help but some comments:
Quote
In the print driver I've selected 'banner', page size is defined as 610mm x 760mm for this image and save roll paper is checked.
You said the roll width is 605mm (24") which does not tie up with what you set as the page size: 610mm  Huh
The driver page margins of 3mm should allow you to get the 550mm print width within the printable width of 599mm.
Quote
maybe q is deciding that it won't fit and scaling it down by a fraction to compensate?
Q will warn you when it does that. It does not distort image aspect ratio either.
Terry
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Terry-M
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2011, 08:08:21 AM »

Another observation:
Quote
I've been noticing that when I wrap my canvas that in one dimension it's always perfect and in the other what should be at the side is showing on the front, today's the first time I've actually measured the print so that explains it.
I suggest that you look at how you are positioning the fold lines etc. in your editor, perhaps that is where the error is coming from Roll Eyes
Why don't you use the very good canvas wrap features of Qimage Ultimate; guide lines etc are included.
Terry
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sectionq
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2011, 08:51:44 AM »

Thanks Terry, in the print driver it's 610mm and in q it reports as 604mm, so actually I guess q is taking into account the 3mm margins. I don't get any warnings so in that case I'm still confused as to why the image is being shrunk?

As for the fold lines they're perfect in the editor, the issue is that it is printing 5mm smaller in both dimensions so obviously the fold lines shrink along with everything else (albeit in a baffling way). As for the gallery wrap feature, it will only get you half way there. Excellent as it is there's always something that needs cloning out and where the horizon isn't perfectly level (artistic effect not wonky photographs) it won't work at all. I'd need to print it to file and then open that in an editor anyway.

The only other thing that I can think of is that in my editor at the dimensions specified the ppi is at 179.832, when it's opened in q it is rounded to 180, I wonder if the .168ppi could add up to the missing 5mm when it's rounded up in q? That being said it should be irrelevant as I thought q takes care of all that when it calculates the exact dimensions you ask for...

Anyway.

Thanks again.

sQ
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sectionq
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2011, 08:59:20 AM »

No, forget that theory, with a ppi of 180 exactly it'll only lose just over half a mm across the whole image.

Is it possible that the paper could be shrinking, that would explain the randomness of the fold line measurments. I hope not though!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 10:30:40 AM by sectionq » Logged
Terry-M
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2011, 11:44:36 AM »

One more idea:
You said,
Quote
the original size dimensions were 751.1mm x 550mm at 180ppi as reported by Qimage
If that is the case, then that is what Qimage is sending to the driver so the driver could be messing things up.
Please check your driver for any scaling that has been set; do this from Qimage.
Also, check that you haven't got an override ppi set in Qimage for Custom-Original Size.

Personally, I don't go for so called embedded sizes with a linear size and ppi. In reality, an image does not have a linear size until it's printed. The Qimage way is to use Qimage to set the linear dimension(s), you know exactly where you are then. Perhaps you need  rehab from photoshop methods  Grin
And what about trying Qimage Ultimate canvas wrap borders and guide lines?
Terry.
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Fred A
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2011, 12:10:20 PM »

Quote
Please check your driver for any scaling that has been set; do this from Qimage.

I have metric phobia. I admit that. Terry helps me to get out of the fetal position when I read a question based on mms and not inches.
Nevertheless, I have to chime in here with Terry.
I would use HELP RESET PRINTER Settings.
Then just reset your needs such as paper choice, quality choice, printer profile setting if you use one, leaving any sizing or anything to do with position or scale untouched.
Then as Terry said, (even using Metric units) Tell Qimage what size print to make.
If it is an odd size, then use Custom/ and type in the size you want.
The ppi will set itself properly based on the print size.
That's all there is to it.
Fred
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sectionq
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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2011, 12:48:54 PM »

Ok, I'll have a look at the driver settings and do a reset anyway and start from scatch. Definately something wrong somewhere.

I know what you mean about the linear ppi being irrelevant when it hits q but unfortunately I still need to use it to get the measurements right for the custom borders in ps. The gallery wrap feature is fine if you can select your own images to print but when you get other peoples family snaps the borders always need work. Fine for a cheap ikea print but if someone's paying you I don't want to end up with extra mirrored feet on the bottom edge or extra eyes etc. Anyway, that's not really the issue, it's my missing 5mm. I'm starting to feel really petty now, it's only 5mm!

Cheers for your help guys, I'll let you know how I get on. 
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sectionq
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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2011, 12:58:41 PM »

By the way, does anyone think that the canvas shrinking is a possibility. It's a high quality poly cotton so I hope not. Would explain the way the scaling is different on each dimension. Or is this a ludicrous idea? It hasn't been varnished yet.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2011, 01:12:17 PM »

Quote
I'm starting to feel really petty now, it's only 5mm!
No it's not  Wink
Qimage is a precision printing program so we expect to get accurate sizes, the printer and media would always bee the limitation.
Sorry, don't know about canvas shrinkage; there are a few on this forum who print canvas, so hopefully, they'll chime in.
Terry
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rayw
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2011, 07:22:08 PM »

I think we're looking at the wrong problem. It is merely that the image you import from photoshop is not printing to the correct size (or rather the size you expect). The fact that the image contains a border or wrap is not relevant (except that is the convenient place for you to take measurements). I understand what you are saying about not being able to use the canvas wrap features of QI, but I use it exclusively for my own prints.

The image size that QI shows will be the image size you get (try inches instead of mm), provided you've not messed with borderless settings, and the printer is accurately set up, and the media loaded correctly. It is unlikely that your canvas is shrinking Smiley. However, you will be stretching your canvas over a frame, so maybe a few mm smaller is a good thing Wink.  I expect there is a video or two on printing to accurate size. You can check the printer accuracy, by printing an image, say 20 inches square, and measuring it. There are settings (certainly for most Epsons), deep inside the service mode, for adjusting the print accuracy

If you are fixing the canvas with staples to the frame, at the back of the frame, then I guess you have a white border to the wrap area. Make that white border smaller, keeping the image and wrap the same size, so that the total image width is less than whatever qi says is the printable width of the canvas roll, and set the size to the actual size of this new image. The unprintable edge of the canvas can still be used for staples, of course. When you've sorted it out, then write down the relevant details for dpi, pixels, etc. that you see in qi, and photoshop. You will then be able to produce a spread-sheet, or otherwise calculate the size of image and border that photoshop needs in order to correctly print the size you want in QI. It will be easier if you consider the wrap as a percentage/proportion of the image, then you can choose whatever you want in ps, pixels or inches or whatever, and get it accurately sized in QI.

Don't bother with trying to get photoshop inches into QI inches, deal with pixels, as others have alluded to.

Best wishes,

Ray

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Terry-M
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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2011, 07:46:12 PM »

Ray said
Quote
I understand what you are saying about not being able to use the canvas wrap features of QI, but I use it exclusively for my own prints.
SQ said
Quote
As for the gallery wrap feature, it will only get you half way there. Excellent as it is there's always something that needs cloning out and where the horizon isn't perfectly level (artistic effect not wonky photographs) it won't work at all. I'd need to print it to file and then open that in an editor anyway.
You can use QU canvas wrap borders after you have cloned out any unwanted items and if there are other features on the image that don't look good if they are mirrored, use the QU stretch canvas border which will disguise any such problems.
There we are, there's a Qimage solution to (almost) eveything  Grin
Terry
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rayw
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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2011, 09:58:38 PM »

If it's the subject's feet or eyes that are near the edge, as the op said earlier (other folk's images), you can't clone them out in the original image so they do not show in the QI gallery wrap. I don't think you can work on the wrap in the image editor, so the wrap has to made in some other software. I print my own images, mainly landscapes, so it is not so much of a problem, but it often would be better if you could edit the wrap.

Best wishes,

Ray
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sectionq
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2011, 10:15:58 PM »

Cheers guys,

I know what you're saying about the gallery feature Terry but the cloning I'm talking about is on the borders, the image itself I don't want to touch and I don't really like the stretch effect, maybe I'm just too picky? Undecided

and Ray, I think I understand what you're saying but the workaround seems like q isn't up to the job and I'm sure that's not the case. You said that the image size that QI shows will be the image size you get, as I'm not getting the size that qimage shows (less 5mm in both dimensions) there has to be a problem in the driver or something though I can't think what. Haven't been able to check yet but if I can get q to print the right size then all the fold marks etc (even layed out in photoshop) will be in the right area (within a mm) and I'll be happy. I guess if I don't figure it out the solution is to tell qimage to print the image 5mm larger and then when it prints it too small it'll be the right size (ooh I feel dirty just thinking about it).

sQ
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