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Author Topic: v2020.119 issues/comments  (Read 468 times)
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« on: May 01, 2020, 09:52:04 PM »

http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage-u

v2020.119      May 1, 2020

Priority: Med

2020.119 fixes a bug that could cause inaccurate color in prints when using "Let printer/driver manage color" under some printer configurations.

Mike
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howardm4
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2020, 01:50:51 PM »

I like the idea of the Auto Rendering Intent but can you give some info to the user as how/why the tool decided on using a specific intent?  Right now, it's just a black box w/ no data as to what went into the calculation.

Also, any way to get the OOG display to display color shading vs. how much OOG.  Right now, it's like Photoshop.  You're either in gamut or out w/ no idea as to how much.
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2020, 03:29:29 PM »

The decision is made per the description in the video I posted.  The algorithm looks at how much of the image is out of gamut and if enough of the image is out of gamut, it switches to perceptual intent.  The algorithm considers the colors that are out of gamut, where they occur in the image, and other factors and was tweaked using hundreds of images from various users/photographers.  It's an "automatic" feature so the actual metrics need not be known as I know other (companies) like to copy my work.  There is a possibility to add an RC/perceptual threshold slider in the future if needed.  For now, I think it best to allow people to use it and see how it is working for them before adding more complexity (and potential confusion).

As to the gamut check, Qimage uses the standard form of gamut check.  The standard color management tools (the tools I use and likely the ones other tools use) don't provide a way to see how far out of gamut an out of gamut color is: it's either in or out.  I agree that would be interesting to see but ultimately it wouldn't matter because out of gamut essentially means "clipped" so no matter how far out it is, you will lose detail there unless you use something like perceptual to scale it.

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Mike
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 01:53:21 PM »

The decision is made per the description in the video I posted.  The algorithm looks at how much of the image is out of gamut and if enough of the image is out of gamut, it switches to perceptual intent.  The algorithm considers the colors that are out of gamut, where they occur in the image, and other factors and was tweaked using hundreds of images from various users/photographers.  It's an "automatic" feature so the actual metrics need not be known as I know other (companies) like to copy my work.  There is a possibility to add an RC/perceptual threshold slider in the future if needed.  For now, I think it best to allow people to use it and see how it is working for them before adding more complexity (and potential confusion).

As to the gamut check, Qimage uses the standard form of gamut check.  The standard color management tools (the tools I use and likely the ones other tools use) don't provide a way to see how far out of gamut an out of gamut color is: it's either in or out.  I agree that would be interesting to see but ultimately it wouldn't matter because out of gamut essentially means "clipped" so no matter how far out it is, you will lose detail there unless you use something like perceptual to scale it.

Regards,
Mike


Hello Mike, A nice auto feature.  Was there feedback on what the choice was in the .118 version?  I seem to recall that it showed perceptual somewhere when I tried the Auto rendering but can not find that in .119. Could be fine to see what was done right or wrong of my rendering decisions in the past. The BPC part of a Relative Colormetric choice by Auto, is that still relying on what is manually set or does it ignore that with Auto rendering?

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 03:50:37 PM »

The perceptual/RC selection is not picked until the printer profile is applied so to see what the auto setting picked, click the soft proof button under the live view and then hold your mouse over print(s).  The intent that the auto setting picked is displayed in the popup information when you hover over prints during soft proof.  Auto only affect rendering intent so set BPC to your preference.  I've found that BPC varies a lot between profiles (and profile-making tools) so it's not a good pick for an automatic setting.  With some profiles, you find yourself turning BPC off a lot because BPC causes a loss of contrast particularly on matte papers.  With other profiles, BPC seems to help every time.  So simply put, if you find that you have to turn BPC off for a fair number of images with the profile you are using, leave it off when using auto intent.  If BPC seems to do no damage and sometimes helps with your profile, leave it on.  And if you don't know: run some tests or just leave it on until you have a problem like your prints looking washed out at which point, you can turn BPC off to see if it improves contrast.

Regards,
Mike
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2020, 09:54:53 AM »

The perceptual/RC selection is not picked until the printer profile is applied so to see what the auto setting picked, click the soft proof button under the live view and then hold your mouse over print(s).  The intent that the auto setting picked is displayed in the popup information when you hover over prints during soft proof.  Auto only affect rendering intent so set BPC to your preference.  I've found that BPC varies a lot between profiles (and profile-making tools) so it's not a good pick for an automatic setting.  With some profiles, you find yourself turning BPC off a lot because BPC causes a loss of contrast particularly on matte papers.  With other profiles, BPC seems to help every time.  So simply put, if you find that you have to turn BPC off for a fair number of images with the profile you are using, leave it off when using auto intent.  If BPC seems to do no damage and sometimes helps with your profile, leave it on.  And if you don't know: run some tests or just leave it on until you have a problem like your prints looking washed out at which point, you can turn BPC off to see if it improves contrast.

Regards,
Mike

Thank you Mike,

I share your comment on BPC + matte papers and that is why I asked about the BPC. The images nested on one print page get individual rendering choices with Auto so that is good and expected, makes things faster and there is still the choice to interfere on Auto with Custom.
No BPC shown in the info per image but at the bottom of the softproof window for the general setting. When settings are changed, like BPC on/off, the changes are not instantly shown.

I wonder whether a single menu page including the active CM settings (Paper Profile/Rendering/BPC) + Softproof (Gamut/Paper + Custom CM setting added)  would not be preferable now and changes instantly shown in the Softproof mode. Including an enlarged view of a selected print page image with all the CM info (incl BPC) and Gamut + Paper shown when set.   Throw out the Printer Profile CM setting menu in Printers and Settings.   The Softproof feature starting from the folder icons using the same features + info. Right now all this is split over 4 routes more or less.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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