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Author Topic: Question On Custom Printer Profiles  (Read 369 times)
rmcx
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« on: September 15, 2020, 04:21:45 AM »

Here's my setup:

Windows 10/64-bit
Dell P2715Q Monitor
X-Rite ColorMunki Smile
DataColor Spyder 3 Print
QiU Latest Version
Capture One, Sony Version
Canon Pixma Pro-100, OEM inks (CLI-42)

The monitor has been calibrated with the ColorMunki unit and that is the standard profile for all apps.

I recently got the Spyder unit because I wanted to see if I could get better paper profiles than what Canon provides because theirs always seemed to need tweaking in the printer settings dialog.

I profiled some paper I have laying around (Canon Plus Glossy) and printed DataColor's test image in QIU.  The print matched QIU's soft proof perfectly other than having to adjust the screen brightness down a bit.

But when I went to print some of my own images that I had processed in C1, the prints tended to be too red.  This is true of other prints of my images as well.  While some colors seem to be right on, others are not.  I don't think it's an issue with rendering intent (set to Auto); I'm talking about colors that ought to be close to neutral gray.

Question:  Why is the DataColor sample print really, really good but my own shots are not so good?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 04:53:51 AM by rmcx » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2020, 12:48:37 PM »

Do those C1 images look good on the monitor and only show a color cast in print?  When you developed them in C1, I assume you exported/saved them?  Check the color space of the images: hover your mouse over one of the thumbnails and look at the EXIF bar on the bottom of Qimage's window to see if it looks like the correct color space.  But if they look good on the monitor and have a color cast in print, either the printer profile is not quite right or the color temperature of the monitor is off.  Using a color temperature like 6500 for the monitor can make the monitor look a bit cool or "blue" but your eyes adjust to it.  Then when you look at a print, the print can look red by comparison.

Regards,
Mike
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rmcx
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 03:52:41 PM »

It appears that a major factor has been to let the prints dry overnight!  Much of the reddish cast has dissipated.  There's still just a bit and I could adjust the profile accordingly.

(The screen was calibrated using the DisplayCal app with standard settings and I'm viewing the print with a color corrected 5K lamp.)

I'm not entirely sure where I'm looking for the color space in QIU.  I assume you're talking about sRGB vs Adobe RGB?  Where would I look for that? I'm not seeing either reference when I hover over the thumbnail. Does QIU take that into account?  The only thing I'm seeing in C1 is that the camera metadata is sent along with the image and my camera is defaulted to sRGB.

Thx
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2020, 04:34:04 PM »

See attached.  As you scroll over thumbnails, the image information is displayed at the bottom of the Qimage window: where the red arrow is pointing.  Notice at the end of that line, it says *ProPhoto RGB*.  That is the color space of the image (thumbnail) currently under the mouse cursor.

Regards,
Mike
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rmcx
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2020, 04:47:00 PM »

Mine doesn't show that.  See attached.  (BTW, it was edited directly from the RAW in C1.)
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2020, 05:07:07 PM »

It's showing it (at the very bottom).  In your screenshot, I see: "Canon Pro-100 <PTN> 1/2 Photo Paper Pro Platunum".  That means the image was converted to a Canon printer profile before it was saved/exported.  You don't want to do that!  You want images in some color space such as Adobe RGB or ProPhoto.  Whatever you are doing in C1 to cause it to save your image in a printer profile, choose Adobe RGB instead.  Then choose your printer profile in Qimage.

Regards,
Mike
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rmcx
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2020, 05:09:34 PM »

OK.  I'll give that a try.

I'm using a C1 "Recipe" and I thought that the paper profile is what should have been transferred to QIU.

Will let you know later today.

Thx
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2020, 05:14:37 PM »

OK.  Yeah, you don't want that ingredient in your recipe.  Wink  Whenever images are saved, they should be in an established color space like Adobe RGB.  The printer profile is applied at print time (in Qimage).  That way you can take that same image and print it to any type of paper (or any printer).  If you save images in a printer profile, that image will really only be "good" for that one type of paper.  If you change to a different paper or printer, you could get limited because the image was stored in a profile that is only appropriate for one paper.  It'll also mess up the ability to do black point compensation and change the rendering intent.

Regards,
Mike
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Roy Sletcher
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2020, 05:39:28 PM »

It appears that a major factor has been to let the prints dry overnight!  Much of the reddish cast has dissipated.  There's still just a bit and I could adjust the profile accordingly.

(The screen was calibrated using the DisplayCal app with standard settings and I'm viewing the print with a color corrected 5K lamp.)

I'm not entirely sure where I'm looking for the color space in QIU.  I assume you're talking about sRGB vs Adobe RGB?  Where would I look for that? I'm not seeing either reference when I hover over the thumbnail. Does QIU take that into account?  The only thing I'm seeing in C1 is that the camera metadata is sent along with the image and my camera is defaulted to sRGB.

Thx


I, too, have noticed the Canon Pro 100 inks tend to change over time during the curing, drying process, or setting process. It is very visible for the first hour, and then settles more slowly to the final colour.

I am using third party papers and refillable cartridges so paper profiling is part of my regular workflow. If the image colours change over the first  few hours or so then the same "drying time" should be used between printing and then measuring the calibration sheet. I usually leave overnight before measuring.

Works for me, and I can see a visual improvement in my profiles if I wait before measuring. Your experience may be different.


-Roy Sletcher-
...professional cynic and contrarian. Note to self: "Wag more; bark less".



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rmcx
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2020, 05:44:44 PM »

OK.  Yeah, you don't want that ingredient in your recipe.  Wink  Whenever images are saved, they should be in an established color space like Adobe RGB.  The printer profile is applied at print time (in Qimage).  That way you can take that same image and print it to any type of paper (or any printer).  If you save images in a printer profile, that image will really only be "good" for that one type of paper.  If you change to a different paper or printer, you could get limited because the image was stored in a profile that is only appropriate for one paper.  It'll also mess up the ability to do black point compensation and change the rendering intent.

Regards,
Mike

OK!  That works great!  Other than the whole contrast/brightness issue, the colors are now spot-on between the monitor, C1, and QIU.  I guess I'll just work with the monitor controls for brightness and contrast, although that will override those settings in DisplayCal's calculations.

This presents me with a minor problem in C1 in that it works in a constantly proofing mode based on the recipe.  So that means I'll have to edit using the paper profile recipe and then remember to transfer to QIU using the Adobe recipe.  Oh, well: a small price to pay right now and maybe I'll figure some way around that.

I'll try some more images tonight and maybe profile another paper and see how I get on.

Thanks again for your help here!!!
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rmcx
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2020, 05:47:07 PM »

I, too, have noticed the Canon Pro 100 inks tend to change over time during the curing, drying process, or setting process. It is very visible for the first hour, and then settles more slowly to the final colour.

I am using third party papers and refillable cartridges so paper profiling is part of my regular workflow. If the image colours change over the first  few hours or so then the same "drying time" should be used between printing and then measuring the calibration sheet. I usually leave overnight before measuring.

Works for me, and I can see a visual improvement in my profiles if I wait before measuring. Your experience may be different.

Yes, I see that now!

Thx
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rmcx
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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2020, 03:37:56 AM »

Another question here:  I've calibrated the monitor and the printer and all the colors are very good.  But, as expected, the print is somewhat duller than the monitor.

Which do you suggest:  Dimming the monitor to match the paper or adjusting the printer settings to try to match the monitor?

Thx
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BrianPrice
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2020, 08:52:45 AM »

The correct way is to re-calibrate the monitor at a lower brightness (luminance) setting. It will take a little trial and error to find the right setting.

Brian P
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rmcx
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2020, 01:39:38 PM »

Ok, thanks.
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