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Author Topic: soft proof quality  (Read 22954 times)
Jeff
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« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2014, 02:16:06 PM »

Fred A I've shot off a raw to Mike.

Just a thought, I tried to send a raw file to Fred/Mike last week and two transfer sites including WeSendIt would not have it, my upload just hung at 20%.

I used send space and it uploaded no problem. Note I have a slow connection.

 https://www.sendspace.com/

Jeff
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brucet
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« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2014, 03:10:30 AM »

Mike I've sent a PM with the WeTransfer link.
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Ron AKA
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« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2014, 03:01:32 PM »

I've run some tests. Compared current assignment work with my last assignment.
All the old files have excellent results. They are either jpegs or older tiff files from a D7000 from previous assignment.
All the 'new' files have the same issue. The thumbnails are, well thumbnails with little resolution issues. The 'preview' screen in the upper right now gives a poor quality image. The edit screen also is giving a less than great resolution. The soft proof screen is very poor. Almost as if there is a huge amount of white noise.

Bruce did you ever solve your problem? If not here is a test you may want to try.

1. Display your problem image in Qimage Soft Proof, and measure the width of the image on the screen in inches.
2. Obtain the resolution of your monitor from the specifications in pixels/inch. Most monitors are around 100, but it is best to get the exact number.
3. Calculate the width of the displayed image on the screen in pixels. For example if it is 15 inches then the displayed image on the monitor would be 1500 pixels if your monitor is 100 pixels per inch.
4. Take your high resolution image that is problematic and then down sample it to 1500 pixels in width using the Bicubic method, or if you do it in Qimage use Lanczos.
5. Now take that down sampled image and display it in Qimage Soft Proof.

If that solves your quality problem, it suggests there is a down sampling method problem, potentially in Qimage itself. The testing I have done suggests that may be the case, and in certain high resolution images artifacts appear that resemble oversharpening.
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Fred A
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« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2014, 08:56:21 AM »

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f that solves your quality problem, it suggests there is a down sampling method problem, potentially in Qimage itself. The testing I have done suggests that may be the case, and in certain high resolution images artifacts appear that resemble oversharpening

I have laryngitis this morning

Set to High

Fred
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Terry-M
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« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2014, 12:11:49 PM »

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it suggests there is a down sampling method problem, potentially in Qimage itself.
"You can't be serious" as John McEnroe used to say to the umpire.  Roll Eyes
Terry
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Ron AKA
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« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2014, 03:33:27 AM »

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it suggests there is a down sampling method problem, potentially in Qimage itself.
"You can't be serious" as John McEnroe used to say to the umpire.  Roll Eyes
Terry

I can only say what I see when I compare the exact same high resolution image displayed in Adobe Camera RAW, Capture One Pro 7, and Qimage Ultimate. See this thread.

http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate/downsampling-high-resolution-images/

If you have another theory I wouldn't mind if you posted it in that thread.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 03:36:35 AM by Ron AKA » Logged
Fred A
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« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2014, 11:00:05 AM »

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I can only say what I see

That's fine. You only say what you see, but your conclusion as to where the artifacts originate is drawn from conjecture.
Set the setting for Antialias to HIGH and Qimage is now locked to disallow any artifacts. You might see a slightly softer looking image due to that settings, but you can rest assured, the artifacts you see were not created in Qimage.

See attached screen snap.

You asked for another theory?
How about a noisy sensor and other software, is masking, and Qimage is showing accurately.

No debating from me. I have done my best. Any further need for explanation will have to come from someone smarter than I.

Fred

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Ron AKA
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« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2014, 02:11:07 PM »

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I can only say what I see

That's fine. You only say what you see, but your conclusion as to where the artifacts originate is drawn from conjecture.
Set the setting for Antialias to HIGH and Qimage is now locked to disallow any artifacts. You might see a slightly softer looking image due to that settings, but you can rest assured, the artifacts you see were not created in Qimage.

See attached screen snap.

You asked for another theory?
How about a noisy sensor and other software, is masking, and Qimage is showing accurately.

No debating from me. I have done my best. Any further need for explanation will have to come from someone smarter than I.

Fred, that dialog box you have snipped, I gather is the one under Edit, Preferences, Printing Options...? If so, I would expect it would be in play for down sampling of images sent to the Printer or File? If so, that is not a solution for the issue I am seeing. It is the screen display in Qimage Ultimate of a high resolution image that is showing artifacts looking like over sharpening. The printed output is fine. The same issue that Bruce has identified in the original post. And I recall I down sampled in Qimage using Lanczos and the resulting image also displayed fine in Qimage. And further if I down sample the image in Photoshop with Bicubic it also solves the problem. The issue only occurs when Qimage Ultimate displays the image using the high resolution original. That does not leave many places where the problem could be coming from. To my thinking it can only be the down sampling method used to prepare the image for screen display in Qimage.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 02:12:58 PM by Ron AKA » Logged
Fred A
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« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2014, 02:30:35 PM »

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If so, I would expect it would be in play for down sampling of images sent to the Printer or File?
Quote
If so, that is not a solution for the issue I am seeing

Again, erroneous conjecture.
That routine is used for all downsampling; to make web copies, email copies... anything!

I'm done! You can believe the sky is falling tomorrow at noon and no one can change your mind.

Stay well.
Fred
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Ron AKA
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« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2014, 03:17:15 PM »

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If so, I would expect it would be in play for down sampling of images sent to the Printer or File?
Quote
If so, that is not a solution for the issue I am seeing

Again, erroneous conjecture.
That routine is used for all downsampling; to make web copies, email copies... anything!

I tried the "Antialias When Downsizing" slider in the dialog box. I could see no effect on the screen display image in the Editor between the far left Off position and the far right high position. Any other suggestions?
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Fred A
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« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2014, 03:19:13 PM »

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tried the "Antialias When Downsizing" slider in the dialog box. I could see no effect on the screen display image in the Editor between the far left Off position and the far right high position. Any other suggestions?

Yep! What you see is already in the image.
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Ron AKA
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« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2014, 06:32:52 PM »

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tried the "Antialias When Downsizing" slider in the dialog box. I could see no effect on the screen display image in the Editor between the far left Off position and the far right high position. Any other suggestions?

Yep! What you see is already in the image.

Then I guess my Adobe Camera RAW and Capture One Pro 7 software is defective then. I can't see the artifacts when I view the same image with that software. Further if I down sample the image with Lanczos, Bicubic, Bicubic Smoother, and then display it in Qimage, the artifacts go away. If I down sample the image with Nearest Neighbor and display it in Qimage, the artifacts are back, and are a good match to the artifacts I see displaying the high resolution image in Qimage. I still can't find any other explanation for the artifacts other than that they are being created in Qimage by down sampling for monitor display with a method very similar to Nearest Neighbor.
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admin
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« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2014, 12:49:06 PM »

Then I guess my Adobe Camera RAW and Capture One Pro 7 software is defective then. I can't see the artifacts when I view the same image with that software. Further if I down sample the image with Lanczos, Bicubic, Bicubic Smoother, and then display it in Qimage, the artifacts go away. If I down sample the image with Nearest Neighbor and display it in Qimage, the artifacts are back, and are a good match to the artifacts I see displaying the high resolution image in Qimage. I still can't find any other explanation for the artifacts other than that they are being created in Qimage by down sampling for monitor display with a method very similar to Nearest Neighbor.

We need to see examples of these "artifacts".  Screen shots or crops of screen shots would be fine.  When Bruce sent samples, I discovered that his images were defective and had a 2x2 checkerboard pattern (see previous page).  You do NOT always want to antialias when downsampling on screen because it can affect perceived sharpness and it slows down display speed.  And you generally only need to antialias when either: (a) your image is damaged and has a repeating "noise" pattern, or (b) you shoot something with a repeating pattern like bricks, etc. that repeat every other pixel or every 3rd/4th pixel, etc.

If you start out with defective images that have (for example) a 2x2 repeating defect, you don't expect software (like QU) to "fix" that problem when it downsamples because the defect becomes more noticeable at different zooms.  That's like Town A having a dam that just sprung a leak and is now flooding basements in Town B.  So Town B residents with the flooded basements send a complaint letter to their own mayor complaining that the town didn't budget for bailing buckets.  Let's see if we can fix the problem at it's source since that's what we did in Bruce's case, so let's see an example.

Regards,
Mike
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Ron AKA
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« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2014, 02:36:34 PM »

Let's see if we can fix the problem at it's source since that's what we did in Bruce's case, so let's see an example.

Regards,
Mike

I will try to screen capture some comparable examples and post them in the thread I initiated on the issue. If Bruce's problem is solved, then I do not want to hijack this thread further... Although I have never seen his images, the issue sounded similar.
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