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Author Topic: v2014.200 issues/comments  (Read 12288 times)
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2014, 10:06:33 AM »

    A message modification to get it across:

    * Signature space: ... 15mm ... white ...

    That is how I see that feature added to the other border features. The image edge to add it to; bottom and that based on the thumbnail. Without fixing that position for the lay-out on the print page, it should still be possible to have the auto-rotate working for best nesting.

    Yes, it is possible to use template + image at the same size and shift one 15mm, do that for six other images on that page and shift the total template etc etc. But I like what I describe and still be able to center or optimal etc place the images on the print page or switch to a 36" roll width instead of 44" and not make a mess of the nesting. What I see in the uneven border feature now is a lay-out tool that is elaborate and sacrifices other print page features. It has its place but I will not use it.


    Ernst

    Ernst,

    The simplistic method you propose has its place as well, but is not nearly as versatile as what we have now.  You can do the above very easily by setting up a layout, saving that layout, and then once you've designed the layout, you can load it and use it and just click the "+" button on thumbnails to fill the templates.  It's not like you need optimal placement to design a layout.  Put as many on the page as you like, oriented however you like, with your 15mm border on the bottom, with signature, save, and use that layout whenever you need it.  A simple click on the "+" button on any thumbnail while using that layout will fill your top templates (the blank ones) automatically, one by one.

    When I design a feature, I design it with versatility in mind rather than trying to only meet the minimum requirements for what someone could call "uneven borders".  The color templates and grouping can accomplish simplistic uneven borders of any specification (any size on any edge) and a lot more.  These are just a few of the things that can be done with colored templates and grouping that you cannot do with simple specification of border sizes:

    - Border nesting: you can stagger, cascade, overlap, and create many designs that are not simple edges
    - You can create solid rectangles of any color you like for use as text boxes or even backgrounds
    - You can do as many borders as you like (each one uneven if you like).  Want 15 borders: just design a layout like that.
    - Create 3D photo drop shadows easily using staggered (cascaded) border templates.
    - Use templates to group "packages within packages" and easily move those around the page to create new layouts.

    Mike

    Mike,

    I am not looking for a vector design application in Qimage Ultimate. I have Illustrator in CS 5.5, Xara Designer Pro X9 for that kind of work if Photoshop or Photoline is not sufficient enough. Fred makes nice sheet size colored image print pages, something I do not need in 99% of my work but have the tools for already. Can be done now in Qimage Ultimate too.

    Yes, I need that simplicity. If I have 8 images supplied by a customer, same or different original size(s) (Photoshop Tiff described), I can put them at their original size together on one print page, say 44" wide and 60" long. I want them printed with 15,5 mm white borders all around each image and an extra 15 mm (hand) signature white space underneath for a signature with a pencil. Qimage cut marks at the corners so I can cut each image + the white space around fast and precise from that total. When framed with a matte there is just that extra white for the signature within the matte window. That is one unique print job for a customer, he might come back and order half of that job and a third of another job and I want them printed as economical again but on a 36" roll as it would waste less paper this time.  The same for a print that goes into a frame without matte that gets wider uneven borders due to signature space needed and/or an aspect ratio of the frame that does not suit the image aspect ratio + even borders. More of them on one print page. I have my ways of doing that these days with Photoshop as the external photo editor, canvas sizing, batch processing when needed.

    Saving templates does not fit the variety of jobs here, it is way easier to recall an older job and improvise on that one.

    An extra signature white space feature in the border settings would be nicer. Another one for opposite sides to solve the aspect ratio issues an improvement on that. Less often needed though and I personally do not like the uneven borders framing but it happens sometimes. That, or less nice a canvas tool in the image editor of Qimage but showing inches or mm next to the pixels. As a filter, so easy to remove. The extra white preferably behaving as border white though and not as image white. My HP Zs can lay down gloss enhancer on the image only within the borders or on the total print page. The first would be compromised if the extra signature white behaved like image white. I solve that today by making wider borders and cutting an extra 5mm off at 3 sides.

    This morning I went the way Fred goes with Qimage but for more images on a print page. The third time. What I need is way simpler than Fred's designs but I need the changes for more images on one print page. It simply is not a satisfying solution for my jobs. I am prepared to learn, I too do experiment with Qimage's tools for odd tasks where it can be efficient. For example Print to File is an excellent route to gang 80 pictures in a  4x20 order for 4 leporellos printed on one a 44" roll of Photorag paper. No memory issues in creating the 4 long images and no memory issues when printing it 5 meter long. Done more tasks like that where the tools were not intended for. But there is a limit on what is sensible tool use ....

    I have made my plea and not willing to waste more time defending my point of view. The tool of customer feedback has it limits as well and I understand that.


    --
    Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

    http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
    January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots. [/list]


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    « Reply #16 on: March 19, 2014, 11:48:23 AM »

    Ernst,

    While I understand what you are doing, I do think it is quite atypical of what customers in general are doing.  I'm quite confident that very few people are signing 3.5 x 5 foot prints with a pencil.  The vast majority of people that I hear from are creating packages and they design layouts consisting of one 5x7, one 4x6, and several wallets.  Or they create a layout with some combination of A3, A4, and A5 prints on an A2 template.  They have various layouts designed for portrait style photos, landscape, and they place their signatures on their layouts using the QU copyright/signature feature.  They open their layout, drop pictures into the appropriate placeholders, print, and the resulting print has their print, the uneven borders, and the signature already on it (you can get a signature to look like a pencil sig BTW or even scan your own signature and use it as a copyright/sig).  The features available now were built around customer feedback but as I'm sure you know, it isn't possible to customize to every individual customer's needs so we go for the needs of the many and not the needs of the few... or the one.  Smiley

    That said, in reading what you wrote, I do see opportunities to simplify certain aspects to make what we have even more powerful.  For example, without changing anything about the way the current features work, I could add a simple helper tool that just assists you in creating the colored template border.  For example, after placing any size print on the page, you could click on that print and specify how much border you'd like on each of the 4 sides along with specifying the color, and the template with that color would appear behind that print with the dimensions specified.  You can get the exact same thing right now by going into the page editor and specifying the width and height of the template and using a couple Ctrl-arrow and shift-arrow clicks to get it centered and get your uneven gap, but the helper would just cut out the math.

    So there are more tools coming to make the current features more flexible.  I've already planned additions such as ability to associate (and print) signatures with colored templates which is not possible in v2014.203, keeping groupings intact even when the grouping template is rotated, and yes, even the ability to group prints and still have the ability to use one of the auto placement options is already on the books.  Most of those features won't give you anything you can't already do: it'll just make doing them easier.  Based on the hundreds of suggestions I get each month, the initial release gives people the ability to do just about anything you can dream up WRT uneven borders.  Making it fill in that final 10% of customer needs by making certain workflows easier is just "icing on the cake" and will come in time.

    Mike
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    Ernst Dinkla
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    « Reply #17 on: March 19, 2014, 01:32:26 PM »

      Ernst,

      While I understand what you are doing, I do think it is quite atypical of what customers in general are doing.  I'm quite confident that very few people are signing 3.5 x 5 foot prints with a pencil.  The vast majority of people that I hear from are creating packages and they design layouts consisting of one 5x7, one 4x6, and several wallets.  Or they create a layout with some combination of A3, A4, and A5 prints on an A2 template.  They have various layouts designed for portrait style photos, landscape, and they place their signatures on their layouts using the QU copyright/signature feature.  They open their layout, drop pictures into the appropriate placeholders, print, and the resulting print has their print, the uneven borders, and the signature already on it (you can get a signature to look like a pencil sig BTW or even scan your own signature and use it as a copyright/sig).  The features available now were built around customer feedback but as I'm sure you know, it isn't possible to customize to every individual customer's needs so we go for the needs of the many and not the needs of the few... or the one.  Smiley

      That said, in reading what you wrote, I do see opportunities to simplify certain aspects to make what we have even more powerful.  For example, without changing anything about the way the current features work, I could add a simple helper tool that just assists you in creating the colored template border.  For example, after placing any size print on the page, you could click on that print and specify how much border you'd like on each of the 4 sides along with specifying the color, and the template with that color would appear behind that print with the dimensions specified.  You can get the exact same thing right now by going into the page editor and specifying the width and height of the template and using a couple Ctrl-arrow and shift-arrow clicks to get it centered and get your uneven gap, but the helper would just cut out the math.


      Mike

      Mike,

      Thank you for the replies and for the suggestions of new features that might fit my workflow more.

      I need to make the following clear:
      In the example I had in my message there are 8 images + borders + cut marks on that print page of 3.5 x 5 foot, when cut their size can be 1.6 x 1.2 foot or similar including borders + white space enough to sign with pencil or a silver pen. Just the example where I face the issues mentioned. One big print on one print page of 3.5 x 5 or four of 9 feet long happens too but is rather the exception. No, I do not print signatures, that is unusual with my customers.

      It is not the math to be done that I object to, no problems with that, it is the way this method does not fit my jobs.

      Yes, I think that Qimage Ultimate drifts away from my needs and that of several other Q users that have wide format printers, 24" and above. Maybe we are not vocal enough here, maybe you are right that we are outnumbered by the other users.


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      Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

      http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
      January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots. [/list]
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      mprager
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      « Reply #18 on: March 19, 2014, 02:12:42 PM »

      Mike,

      I usuaully "only" sit and read and enjoy the development of Qimage Ultimate, use it for allmy prints.

      As Ernst I have an HP Z Printer and believe he is right and support it:

      A simple way to adjust the boarders with the bottom boarder being wider - for signature, but also for other information to be printed- wold be sensible and help me on my printing. This request also goes with old principle of the bottom area of am mat being wider

      I guess it is the ever growing options in QI that leads to new requests, some very sophisticated and some fairly streight forward - those I like most

      Martin Prager
      (form Vienna, Austria)
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      « Reply #19 on: March 19, 2014, 02:27:23 PM »

      As I said, all of that can be done now and there will be tools to make it easier.  In my A2 example above, we arranged prints on a page on roll paper (A2 size is typically printed on roll paper on a wide format printer).  After we arranged them, we add templates, size them manually based on how much bigger we want them than the print, and positioned the colored templates behind each print to get any uneven border combination you want.  If you have typical layouts that you use over and over, it becomes very simple because once you've designed the layout, you can save it and use it rather than recreating each time.

      What I was saying above is that, when sizing on the fly and working with arbitrary sizes that don't fit a predefined layout or "package", it would be easier once you are done adding prints to the page to be able to just select all the prints, choose "add placemat", and then choose the gap on the 4 edges.  All those prints end up on top of colored template placemats (you can call them borders) with the specifications you provide.  Saves manually adding colored templates and manually placing the prints on top.  That works within the current functionality (which is much more versatile than just uneven borders) and at the same time provides a way to do uneven borders very easily.

      You can't deny that you can get any combination of uneven borders you can imagine already.  The only thing we are refining here is the mechanics of how you get to the end result: which will be made much easier with upcoming tools that automate the process for different needs.

      Mike
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      DdeGannes
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      « Reply #20 on: March 19, 2014, 04:28:02 PM »

      Sounds great to me Mike. Your downloads for Qimage Ultimate are comparatively small to other software so its not a problem to update every couple of weeks.
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      BrianPrice
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      « Reply #21 on: March 23, 2014, 10:24:35 AM »

      Mike

      What I would like is something like a simpler version of the 'Page Margin' box, with the option to save setups, with perhaps a percentage option for the  margins, obviously with colours added.



      Brian
      « Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 10:43:42 AM by BrianPrice » Logged
      Mack
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      « Reply #22 on: March 23, 2014, 04:53:27 PM »

      Mike

      What I would like is something like a simpler version of the 'Page Margin' box, with the option to save setups, with perhaps a percentage option for the  margins, obviously with colours added.

      Brian

      Percentages?  Really?!!!

      If I want a 6mm border (or 1/4 inch) with a 12mm (or 1/2 inch) border on the bottom, what "percentages" would I need for a 13x19 inch print?  Need to find a calculator to do it.  "Percentages" is a bad - and very slow - idea.

      Border colors are already accessible easily on right pane (small white rectangle by default), unless you want a mix on four sides.


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      « Reply #23 on: March 23, 2014, 07:46:02 PM »

      Mack

      I suggested percentage as an option - you could still use mms if you want. The idea of using percentages was to automatically give wider borders with larger prints in the same proportions - you would only need one pre-set whatever the print size.

      Brian
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