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Author Topic: Red Prints Orange  (Read 35428 times)
wingspar
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« on: July 27, 2009, 11:34:23 PM »

I have recently purchased a new LaCie 324 LCD monitor, and have it calibrated with the LaCie Blue Eye Pro that came with the monitor.  I had a custom printer profile made right after I purchased the monitor.  Prints have been fine till last night.  I calibrated the monitor just before printing, and calibration numbers almost identical to last calibration.  Everything looked normal till the print came off the printer.  (Epson 2200).  The red jerseys came out orange.

I have gone thru all my settings in both printer driver and Qimage, and everything looks normal.  I am not double profiling.

The jerseys look red in every program I open, including Qimage.  After the prints came off the printer, I did a Soft Proof, and there the jerseys show up orange.  They show up red in the Qimage thumbnails, in the preview, in Nikon View, ViewNX, CS3 and ACR.  Iím stumped on this one.  I donít feel I can send these to the customer.  I canít begin to figure out what is happening.  Any ideas?
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Gary
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Terry-M
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 08:38:05 AM »

It looks to me that the finger is pointing at the new profile.  Shocked
Is this a new paper or do you have another profile to try? Also, try another paper & profile, you probably only need to go as far as soft proofing from what you say.
Terry.
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Fred A
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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2009, 09:29:59 AM »

While reading your post, I immediately thought printer clogs, but when I finished, I have to agree with Terry.
Here's a simple test.
See attached snap.... open the color management box in Qimage, and check on the icon, dead center, right side. Hovering the mouse pointer shows a balloon that offers, Let Printer Manage color.
As you can see I already set that button and now the printer profile has changed to the correct one for that Let Printer manage color selection.
Also, please set your printer driver to ICM, not No Color Management.

Make a print.
It should be very close to perfect... if so that tells you that either your driver settings were off or your profile is off.
BTW, just to simplify, your monitor profile has no bearing on the print. Only if you used the image on the screen to radically change the colors of the image.
Otherwise, your monitor profile can be on or off and it makes no difference.
BTW 2   Please make a test print. That eliminates a lot of guessing. Soft proofing does use both printer profile and monitor profile.
Thanks

Fred
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 09:31:36 AM by Fred A » Logged
wingspar
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 04:17:30 PM »

It looks to me that the finger is pointing at the new profile.  Shocked
Is this a new paper or do you have another profile to try? Also, try another paper & profile, you probably only need to go as far as soft proofing from what you say.

I havenít had any problems with the new printer profile till now with these red jerseys.  This is not a new paper.  Itís Epson Premium Semi-gloss.  Pretty much the only paper Iíve used since I bought the 2200 back in 04 or 05.  See my reply to Fred on the Soft Proofing.

Here's a simple test.
See attached snap.... open the color management box in Qimage, and check on the icon, dead center, right side. Hovering the mouse pointer shows a balloon that offers, Let Printer Manage color.
As you can see I already set that button and now the printer profile has changed to the correct one for that Let Printer manage color selection.
Also, please set your printer driver to ICM, not No Color Management.

Make a print.
It should be very close to perfect... if so that tells you that either your driver settings were off or your profile is off.
BTW, just to simplify, your monitor profile has no bearing on the print. Only if you used the image on the screen to radically change the colors of the image.
Otherwise, your monitor profile can be on or off and it makes no difference.
BTW 2   Please make a test print. That eliminates a lot of guessing. Soft proofing does use both printer profile and monitor profile.

Well, I donít understand the rational behind your screen shot, but I tried it.  Soft Proofing in Qimage looked fine, so I went ahead and printed.  Prints came out dark with a heavy green tint to them.  Things just went from bad to worse.
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Gary
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2009, 04:42:38 PM »

I'm confused! In your first post, you say "Everything looked normal till the print came off the printer.  (Epson 2200).  The red jerseys came out orange." This would indicate that the monitor was correct and the prints were wrong.

Then you say, in the same post, "The jerseys look red in every program I open, including Qimage.  After the prints came off the printer, I did a Soft Proof, and there the jerseys show up orange.  They show up red in the Qimage thumbnails, in the preview, in Nikon View, ViewNX, CS3 and ACR." This would indicate the monitor is now wrong as well as the print.

Then you say you tried Fred's solution and the prints came out green but the monitor soft proof looked OK. Am I correct so far?

If so, there are at least two possible problems. I would look first at the profile. You don't state why you installed a "custom printing profile" but since you are using Epson paper, just download their standard profile and see if anything improves. If not, I would look at an inking problem, such as a clogged nozzle or two.

If neither works, try printing out of one of your other programs and see what happens. That would help isolate where the problem is. I'm suspecting your 2200 driver settings and/or profile...
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Terry-M
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 04:53:09 PM »

Fred said
Quote
While reading your post, I immediately thought printer clogs
and
Quote
Let Printer Manage color.
This suggestion will always give a reasonable result.

There seems to be a great deal of inconsistency, blocked nozzles need to be eliminated from the equation, so I suggest a check & clean.
Terry.
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wingspar
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 05:14:50 PM »

Then you say you tried Fred's solution and the prints came out green but the monitor soft proof looked OK. Am I correct so far?

Yes.

Quote
If so, there are at least two possible problems. I would look first at the profile. You don't state why you installed a "custom printing profile" but since you are using Epson paper, just download their standard profile and see if anything improves. If not, I would look at an inking problem, such as a clogged nozzle or two.

If neither works, try printing out of one of your other programs and see what happens. That would help isolate where the problem is. I'm suspecting your 2200 driver settings and/or profile...

I purchased a custom profile because the canned Epson profiles gave a green tint to all of my prints, which I was able to fix manually before printing, as it was consistent.  The custom profile put an end to that, except for these red jerseys Iím trying to print.

There seems to be a great deal of inconsistency, blocked nozzles need to be eliminated from the equation, so I suggest a check & clean.

Checking for clogged nozzles with the 2200 is automatic before printing.  There are no clogged nozzles.
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Gary
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 07:33:16 PM »

Quote
checking for clogged nozzles with the 2200 is automatic before printing.  There are no clogged nozzles
Sorry,
I had been on chore duty.
Wow what a lot of information and mis-information.
I have seen/used a few 2200s and I never knew they do auto nozzle cleaning. You would go through ink like **** through a goose.
Please do a nozzle clean/head clean.
If you got worse prints (and green instead of red) using the generic profile I suggested that you use,
1) you either have the driver settings set incorrectly, (should have been ICM), or you have clogged nozzles.
2) If you needed to get a custom profile to override the EPSON premade profile designed for their own paper, that doesn't sit well either.
3) Can you please tell us the name of the profile that you used from Epson; filename and descriptor name.
That would solve a lot too.

Trying to help!
Fred
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Terry-M
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 07:49:38 PM »

Quote
Can you please tell us the name of the profile that you used from Epson; filename and descriptor name.
That would solve a lot too.
One more question too, are you using Epson Inks, sounds obvious but trying to cover everything  Wink
Terry.
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UltraChrome
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 08:06:29 PM »

Another basic question: what driver version are you using and with what operating system? Thanks - we all wanna help  Grin   As a matter of general information, the green and/or reddish casts you mention are usually caused when the Epson driver is NOT set to "no color adjustment" (in the "advanced" section of the driver), which is where they need to be for any software to control the final print color.

Edit addition: you also need to select the proper paper in your Epson driver, even though you are not using it for your color control. The driver determines the ink flow.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 02:25:46 AM by UltraChrome » Logged
Fred A
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 08:31:26 PM »

I just downloaded the Epson profiles on your behalf for the semi gloss paper.
There were two.
One is for the 1440 dpi setting and the other for the 2880 dpi setting.
Regardless, it should be one of those two lower ones.
The driver gets set to NO COLOR ADJUSTMENT.

See the attached screen snap.

What was the name of the driver you used, and then discarded as no good? I am really anxious to hear the answer to what ink you use.

Fred
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wingspar
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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 03:02:26 AM »

I have seen/used a few 2200s and I never knew they do auto nozzle cleaning. You would go through ink like **** through a goose.
Please do a nozzle clean/head clean.
If you got worse prints (and green instead of red) using the generic profile I suggested that you use,
1) you either have the driver settings set incorrectly, (should have been ICM), or you have clogged nozzles.
2) If you needed to get a custom profile to override the EPSON premade profile designed for their own paper, that doesn't sit well either.
3) Can you please tell us the name of the profile that you used from Epson; filename and descriptor name.

It is automatic that I do a nozzle check before sending prints to the 2200.  If the printer did that automatically, it would drive me nuts.  Didnít expect anyone to read that into my post.  I do Not have clogged nozzles. 

Driver always set to ICM and no color management.

It is quite common to have custom printer profiles made, as the generic ones from Epson are ok, but not as good as custom profiles.  The Epson profile I used for years is SP2200Prem.Semigloss 1440.icc

I am currently using a custom profile made by Cathyís Profiles, which has removed all printing headaches, until this red jersey printing orange problem.

One more question too, are you using Epson Inks, sounds obvious but trying to cover everything

I use only Epson inks.  Never used anything else.  Donít intend to.

Another basic question: what driver version are you using and with what operating system? Thanks - we all wanna help  Grin   As a matter of general information, the green and/or reddish casts you mention are usually caused when the Epson driver is NOT set to "no color adjustment" (in the "advanced" section of the driver), which is where they need to be for any software to control the final print color.

Edit addition: you also need to select the proper paper in your Epson driver, even though you are not using it for your color control. The driver determines the ink flow.

Using latest Driver from Epson, and itís several years old.  Too tired to look it up.  It is set to ICM, No Color Adjustment, and the proper paper is selected.  Iíve had the 2200 and Qimage for several years.  I certainly know the basics.
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Gary
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wingspar
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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2009, 03:05:24 AM »

What was the name of the driver you used, and then discarded as no good?

Iím unaware of discarding a driver.   Huh?   Huh?
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Gary
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Fred A
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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 09:39:11 AM »

Sorry, Gary...
I meant what profile did you discard and replace with a custom profile.

If the setup I gave you using the \pRGB.icm profile and setting the driver to ICM produced unacceptable green prints, then I have to say printer problem; of some nature.
Have you printed from some other program? Do you get skewed results or excellent results?

Kathy makes wonderful profiles, so no argument there. That points yet another finger at the printer.

Fred

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UltraChrome
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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 12:54:01 PM »

re: "Using latest Driver from Epson, and itís several years old.  Too tired to look it up.  It is set to ICM, No Color Adjustment, and the proper paper is selected.  Iíve had the 2200 and Qimage for several years.  I certainly know the basics."

I don't believe you can select both "ICM" and "No Color Management" at the same time. Select ONLY "No Color Management".

You also may have a corrupted driver. It might be worth the time to remove the driver and reinstall the latest version on the Epson site for your OS. Just do a search on "2200" and select the first item it brings up.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 01:04:01 PM by UltraChrome » Logged
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