Title: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: admin on July 31, 2009, 06:54:21 PM August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity
Background
Zoom lenses and distortion
Optical versus digital distortion correction: the trade-offs
Implementation Qimage developed raw photo also has the proper lens distortion correction applied. Remember, the lens distortion is part of the image acquisition process now, so for the raw file to be properly decoded, the optical data that is stored in the raw photo for that lens must be applied. Take a look at the bottom example that shows how dcraw renders the same photo. Since dcraw doesn't use the lens distortion correction data and displays the raw file as truly raw, you can see how much distortion the lens itself really has. Most "high end" raw tools such as PhotoShop, SilkyPix, and Qimage will render the proper image but raw utilities like dcraw that are designed to decode the "truly raw" data will show exactly what the sensor sees. As you can see from the above, significant optical distortions are mitigated effectively by software. In addition, the software fix is so good that very little detail is lost in the final/fixed photo!
Summary
Mike Chaney Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: Terry-M on July 31, 2009, 07:47:00 PM Quote On a typical dSLR, this cannot be done: the lens optics must control barrel distortion at wide angles because you are looking through the lens... there is no opportunity to "intercept" what you see and fix it. Mike,I don't see this as necessarily as a barrier to software correction of conventional dSLR lenses. Ok. the view via the mirror may not look good but if the final result gives an overall advantage than I would go with it. A couple of weeks ago I attached some images from my Canon 17-85 IS lens at 18mm which shows its poor LBD performance - I can easily see it in the viewfinder. Perhaps Canon thought this was a better compromise wrt cost/performance, knowing the distortion can be corrected by software at a later stage. http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage/v2009-267-issuescomments/msg926/#msg926 If this were to become a trend with conventional dSLR's, I would see there being a problem with selling the idea :-\ A pie-in-the-sky question: do you think it will be possible to develop software that would make LBD corrections on any lens without a database; somehow examine the image for straight lines that are curved and then correct. I said it was pie-in-the-sky ::) Terry. Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: admin on July 31, 2009, 08:26:00 PM Mike, I don't see this as necessarily as a barrier to software correction of conventional dSLR lenses. Ok. the view via the mirror may not look good but if the final result gives an overall advantage than I would go with it. Not only will the view "not look good" but the framing will be incorrect as well. The more barrel distortion you have, the more the image (edges) must be cropped. So the view through the viewfinder will show a distorted image and after the correction, some of the edges will get cropped off as well. Not sure it's practical on a standard dSLR. Quote If this were to become a trend with conventional dSLR's, I would see there being a problem with selling the idea :-\ That's just it. If you can't see through the viewfinder what you'll be shooting, that may be too much of a trade-off for many. Quote A pie-in-the-sky question: do you think it will be possible to develop software that would make LBD corrections on any lens without a database; somehow examine the image for straight lines that are curved and then correct. I said it was pie-in-the-sky ::) Terry. I think that would be impractical. You could make a target (something like a grid) and shoot it and figure out how to correct a lens, but it'll only be accurate for that focal length. Then you'd have to shoot numerous other focal lengths in the range (4-6 might work) to get an overall curve. Once you've done it, you'd have it though, but then there's the complication that each manufacturer stores which lens is on the camera in a different place and many don't use EXIF tags. So if you use multiple lenses, it might not always be obvious which "curve" to apply just by looking at the image header so full automation will be problematic. Mike Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: tgutgu on August 01, 2009, 10:12:17 AM The main problem I see with in camera lens correction is that this currently leads to a late or non existing support of the G1 and GH1 by raw image processors.
The G Series is supported (sometimes late) by Adobe Lightroom LightZone RawTherapee Silkypix Qimage Studio Raw Developer Not supported by Capture One DxO Aperture Bibble Do you think that softare distortion correction makes the support by raw image processors more difficult? Kind regards Thomas Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: admin on August 01, 2009, 03:16:41 PM The main problem I see with in camera lens correction is that this currently leads to a late or non existing support of the G1 and GH1 by raw image processors. The G Series is supported (sometimes late) by Adobe Lightroom LightZone RawTherapee Silkypix Qimage Studio Raw Developer Not supported by Capture One DxO Aperture Bibble Do you think that softare distortion correction makes the support by raw image processors more difficult? Kind regards Thomas Good question. My answer is "not particularly". The raw processors you mention that don't support the G1 and GH1 don't support them because their raw support is very limited anyway. They weren't likely to support those cameras whether they had software lens correction or not. Bibble, for example, currently only supports 127 cameras while Qimage supports 337 cameras. Software lens correction is a relatively easy fix. Most converters already have a manual fix for that, so picking up the lens distortion coefficient out of the raw file and using it is a no brainer. I don't think it'll stop any raw software from supporting the camera(s). It's not like the Foveon/Sigma full color capture sensor where everything has to be done differently: that's why many raw converters don't support the Sigma SD14, DP1, or DP2. Mike Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: Seth on August 04, 2009, 02:55:09 AM In any case one should be able to allow or disallow the correction. Distortion has it's place/use in photography.
Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: admin on August 04, 2009, 01:00:20 PM In any case one should be able to allow or disallow the correction. Distortion has it's place/use in photography. Not in this case! You should not be allowed to turn off the correction because it is part of the lens. When you buy an expensive lens that controls barrel distortion, should you be allowed to take the lens apart and remove the optical elements that correct the wide angle distortion? It's no different here: the distortion correction is part of the lens operating characteristics and should never be disabled. Mike Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: Seth on August 04, 2009, 04:47:00 PM Mike-
That would assume one would NEVER want the optical distortion. It is a usable tool just as flare is--at times. Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: admin on August 04, 2009, 05:04:22 PM Mike- That would assume one would NEVER want the optical distortion. It is a usable tool just as flare is--at times. Then you can add it later! You're not getting my point: digital distortion correction is included as proper operation of the lens. You wouldn't disable it just as you wouldn't take apart a $2000 lens and remove the lens elements that fix barrel distortion. Mike Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: Seth on August 05, 2009, 01:06:14 PM ...Then you can add it later!.... Not in the world of photojournalism. You'd get fired. It's no longer a photograph--it's a rendering. I'll leave it alone, though. It's not a pro camera, so not an issue. Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: admin on August 05, 2009, 01:11:48 PM ...Then you can add it later!.... Not in the world of photojournalism. You'd get fired. It's no longer a photograph--it's a rendering. I'll leave it alone, though. It's not a pro camera, so not an issue. Then by your logic, you'd better leave in the code that was designed to render proper images from the lens. If you take that out, it's a "rendering" and you'd get fired! Mike Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexity Post by: deejjjaaaa on August 07, 2009, 07:24:25 AM The main problem I see with in camera lens correction is that this currently leads to a late or non existing support of the G1 and GH1 by raw image processors. The G Series is supported (sometimes late) by Adobe Lightroom LightZone RawTherapee Silkypix Qimage Studio Raw Developer Not supported by Capture One DxO Aperture Bibble Do you think that softare distortion correction makes the support by raw image processors more difficult? Kind regards Thomas C1 does not support Panasonic raw files just because P1 has a contract w/ Leica... Patch Panasonic raw files to look like the camera manufacturer is Leica and you can open .RW2 in C1 w/o issues be it LX3 or G-series... very simple. Title: Re: August 2009: Integrated Software Distortion Correction Reduces Lens Complexi Post by: Misirlou on August 12, 2009, 03:06:11 PM I just got a small waterproof Panasonic point-and-shoot, the DMC-TS1, to take snorkeling. Looking at my first few test images, I noticed absolutely no chromatic aberration fringing. That seemed puzzling to me, since it has one of those folded light path lenses, and certainly wasn't very expensive. Then I read a review on an obscure European web site that suggested Panasonic is correcting CA with s/w in-camera. I don't know if that's true or not, but whatever they've done is pretty impressive. Even my best Canon SLR lenses will sometimes generate annoying fringing under certain conditions. I typically use DxO to take care of such things automatically, but that obviously isn't an option with the Panasonic...
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