Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

I thought some of you may be interested in this little story after the boss at home gave me permission to proceed.  ;D
Earlier this year I noticed that monitor to print colour match was not quite right especially with orange tones. I wondered if my calibration device, an Eye One 2 Display, was playing up. Subsequent checking with the X-Right  i1Diagnostics program showed it was working properly.
Later in the year I started getting  inconsistent calibration results with my 22" Eizo Flexscan 95% Adobe RGB gamut monitor. It's a good quality monitor but has Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamps rather than the more modern LCD back-lighting so I assume they were "going off" after 9 years use. It was time to replace it in ready for Christmas.

Eizo have a reputation for good quality monitors at competitive prices but the latest Flexscan range did not seem particularly suited to photography so I looked at their ColorEdge range that have hardware calibration. This is where the monitor calibration settings are stored in a Look-Up-Table (LUT) in the monitor hardware rather than on the graphics card. This gives consistent calibration  & precision colour . Some even have a built in calibration device that pops out at the edge of the screen. Most models have high gamut LED's too.
I bought a 24" ColorEdge CS2420 monitor which still needed my Eye One 2 Display for calibration. It's one up from the least expensive in the range and has 99% Adobe RGB gamut. It has excellent reviews and rated as good value for money - I did not pay the full list price! See attached image.
Calibration was easy. You start by setting target values, gamma, colour temperature and brightness which are saved. You can have several target sets and therefore several  calibrations. The software does load the profiles into the operating system colour folder as you'd expect.
So why have several calibrations with different targets? I used this feature to check print matching with different brightness levels. Or, say, you are working with video you'd probably want to set the calibration to sRGB. The neat thing is, once these calibrations are done, you can instantly access them from the system tray (Windows) which will load the correct profile and monitor settings with one click.

(NB. I have no commercial interest with Eizo or their sales outlets  ::))

Terry

Very Interesting.

My S2110W is many years of age.

Time to replace?

The SWPP convention in Jan each year some times have Eizo in attendance. If I can get up in time to catch the 07.30am train I may pay them a visit, then slowly work on my finance director, labouring the fact that I got no Christmas  presents. :( :( :(

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Interesting to know someone else who has an Eizo. My 22" Flexscan was 9 years old and still works fine as a non-critical monitor.
Now having a 24" and a quick warm up LCD monitor is very nice.
I didn't specifically say in my original post that monitor to print matching is very good with colour, brightness and shadow detail. The old one wasn't bad but was obviously not as good as it used to be.

I had a home-made hood for the old one made from black 5mm thick foam board glued together with reinforcing strips of wood and spray painted matte black. I was able to modify it to fit the new monitor. The monitor is not far from a window to one side so the hood helps to keep direct extraneous light from the screen.
Terry

Hello Terry

Hope the new monitor is performing ok

I am still checking out the CS2420

Looks ok but wonder if my ColorMunkiPhoto 1.2.4 is up to the job.

I have not been over impressed with the Munki.  Cannot definitely say the profiles created are any better than the paper manufacture standard profiles.
Every time I profile the monitor it shows a before and after with the after 'slightly' better..  I wonder if it is just a bit of kiddums.

£542 appears the best price at moment. One online and one a retailer at Nottingham. I keep checking in case one gets a bit more Christmas happy.

I will probably­ work on the Finance Director after Christmas lunch – “Look at all your presents and I have none” :'(

Jeff

The only thing I know about Nottingham is that the Sheriff lives there, and the Sherwood forest must be nearby.  It follows then that Robin Hood is riding through taking from the rich and giving to the poor.
Hang around a bit. You might get lucky.
Fred

May even get a chance with Maid Marian.
She could even be intersted in my Munki


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maid_Marian

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
Yes, I'm enjoying the larger screen, great colour matching and lower power consumption. So you can tell the finance director it'll pay for itself.
I'm sure the Colormunki will be ok. It's one of the recommended devices.
The difference you see before and after is with and without the LUT on the graphics card loaded. It indicate how good the monitor settings are, little difference indicates good settings but the Graphics LUT takes over anyway.
You won't have that on the Eizo CS monitor because it's hardware calibration and no effect from the graphics card. The Eizo calibration software will give a validation report which indicates how close the colours are to a set test patches. My results are excellent. The Eizo software is excellent, just create a target and set it off, no fiddling with monitor controls, so easy!
I saw that Nottingham supplier but used Native Digital (http://www.nativedigital.com/) where I already had an account. It's a small company who used to be local to me but now moved to the south coast. Whatever, the monitors come direct from the Eizo UK warehouse.
There's a lot of help videos etc. on these monitors and Eizo UK are responsive to tech queries.

Terry thanks for additional info.

Look like it could be a expensive Christmas

Jeff

Jeff,
I found the photo you took of Maid Marian in my archive drive. It is your image 062i0001.jpg.


Fred

Oh my god :)

jeff

PS.

Don't post it here :o :o

Of course not. Robin would pin me to a tree with an arrow, Little John would stomp on me, and Friar Tuck would banish me to the church choir forever.

Just ordered a new Eizo CS2420

Hope I got a good deal.

Found an outlet selling for £541 but if you signed up for their news letter gave another 10% off.
Base £451.50 - 10% + 20%vat = 487.62  = another £54.18 off.

Expect it later next week.

Then the fun will start.  And if there is no improvement the Finance Director will give me some stick.
(it will have to be good the existing one is still fine to my eyes).

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
That seems good to get the extra 10%. I paid the £541.
I'll send you some articles and links about setting it up, especially calibration. The main point is don't use the pre-set calibration targets in the software but create your own. One of the articles written by my supplier tells all.
Terry

Done by email.
Terry

Thanks, all received ok.
I await monitor arrival with trepidation.

Jeff

Nothing to afraid 😨 of!
What connection types have you got on your PC graphics card?
I'm using hdmi.
Terry

Screen shot shows my graphics card connection according to card manual, but in fact there is only one
DVI-I Dual Link connection. plus the other 1 and 2 listed.

Card should support a dual monior set up, but I did not get that to work when comp. was new and have not botherd since.   

Existing Eizo has two inputs, useful, I have a linux comp connectd to the 2nd connection.
this is a back up situation in case win7 and or comp. failes.

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff,
You have Display Port and HDMI. Eizo recommend Display port or HDMI for maximum quality. A Display Port cable is supplied with the monitor so I recommend you use that.
Terry

Hey guys,
I just checked google maps. Rugby to Lincoln, 67 miles.
One of you drive to the other one and fix Jeff up properly.


Fred

More like 80 miles! Anyway my hourly rate will be too high for Jeff, after buying to monitor he has no money left  :o
Terry

Settle for a lunch at the pub
F

85.9 miles by road = 1h 40min

by train 5h 12min (the 8.43 train is already 1 min late)
Then walk Rasen to Wickenby 6miles, Google allows 16 minutes for this presumabley based on us all beeing Mo Farah clones.

No pub, so lunch charge would = tech. charge.

Anyway, thanks for all the interest in my little update project

Jeff

Monitor recd. and installed.

Connections did not work out as planned so still useing DVI
Got the old Eizo connected to linux, so can now look at Fred's videos at same time as working on main screen.  This will be handy as all instructions now seem to be on YouTube.

Now be getting down to profiling/calibrating. ie stepping into the unknown.

First question.

Is a seperate set up required for Photography, Printing and Web design?
Attached screen shot.

Also, that's two questions - what is the entry in Qimage Display - monitor profile.



 Jeff   
 

Hi Jeff,
Ignore those Targets altogether. I think I said in my email to you Click "Create New Target", set profile to "Native" and I suggest you start with brightness of 100Cd/Msq
See screen shot of my targets - you can see I'm using 80cd/Msq.
Read those article I sent you, especially  the Native Digital ones.
Terry

PS. got to go out now, will tell you about profile names later, I had to ask Eizo support!

Thanks Terry.
I have read so much that mind is a bit of a blur.

Done as you suggest and images look ok on screen.
Done a test print and started to create a new printer profile, now leaving overnight to dry and will do 2nd print tomorrow and another test print and check difference.

I will get there eventually.

Jeff
 

Hi Jeff,
Re. and
Click Preferences, choose Profile tab and tick "Use Target Name as Profile Name.
See screens shots below
Terry

Hi Jeff,
I'm curious to know why this was the case?
Terry

Hello Terry.

Back on job.

Checked card install disk again, and find mine has VGA, HDMI and DVI-I
(access to back of computer difficult with out unplugging all 12 cables)
Screen came with DisplayPort Mini, DVI, USB and Mains cables, but no HDMI.

I have found a HDMI cable in my spare cable box, but it has no integral filter fitted.

I will search net and try and locate HDMI with filter if that would be a better connection.

Jeff

Not sure what you mean by "integral filter" unless it's like those cylindrical things you get on some USB cables.
If that's the case I wouldn't worry about it - why would you want to filter the signal?
My Graphics card has a mini HDMI socket so I had to buy a new cable, it has no filters. Amazon have a big choice of HDMI cables.
BTW. I assume you have connected to monitor via USB too, that is essential for hardware calibration system.
Terry

Hello Terry

Yes one of those cylindrical things.
Yes Monitor connected to USB.

Done a very good first print considering on Poundland paper.

Now find that it is possible to establish the "white" of the individual paper with the Eizo ColorNavigator.

Checked some of my papers and there is a difference in white.
No time to fully explore at moment, presume this will allow creation of a monitor profile just for a paticular paper.

Will see if it works/is worth the effort.

Jeff




 

Hi Jeff
I noted that feature too but have decided to live with the slight differences in paper white.

Edit. Having a monitor profile for different papers would make image editing complex in that an image would need to be edited knowing what paper it was to be printed on. That's ok if you use only one paper.
I've always assumed the paper printing profile compensates for paper white to some extent.
Terry

I generally use only two papers, the Poundland for non critical stuff such as providing friends with copies - they only seem to modify them with thumb prints and scratches.

Permajet oyster for real quality prints.

Also I like to 'fiddle' and explore new toys.

Jeff
 

continuing experimenting.

Have created monitor profile as suggested by site below.

https://imagescience.com.au/knowledge/hardware-calibration-targetsPROOFING
 
FOR GLOSS & SEMI-GLOSS PAPERS
Set your monitor to a whitepoint of around 6000K.
Set your brightness to 100 cd/m2.
Set the contrast ratio to 200:1 or slightly higher (= black point of 0.5).
Allow the monitor to use it's full native gamut, or you can load a printer profile to define the gamut target.

Done two prints, on cheap paper, excellent result when viewed under D65 lamp I will check daylight to morrow.
Funny thing though the Printer Preview is awful.  A golden autumn tree colour is showing a terrible, (we would say) gourdy red.

To the Forum Moderator.

If it is thought these posts of mine are trivial and of little interest on forum please say.

Jeff
 

Hi Jeff,
I set black point to minimum and used 6500K which is what I always thought as the norm for photography.
Not sure why you would say "FOR GLOSS & SEMI-GLOSS PAPERS"? It's a monitor profile. OK, a matte paper has less contrast but I've never heard of using different profile for different paper types.
Don't make life more complicated than it need be.
It's not a funny thing, it's normal for a print preview on a colour managed system to show totally inaccurate colours.
Terry

Hi Guys,
I have been reading the many fascinating posts on how to really and accurately profile a quality monitor.
You are to be applauded for your tenacity and refusal to accept less than perfection;
This:


and this:


I am bothered by the super technical approach (entirely accurate) of Terry's comments, coupled to Jeff somehow giving the impression that his new monitor profile produced better prints.
There are many people new to printing and color management who read from the forum.

What Jeff is doing and what Terry has always done is produce an accurate color, brightness and contrast on his monitor that will match the prints made using an accurate print profile; one created for each  paper type.

That having been said, nothing Jeff is doing to profile the monitor for brightness, contrast, whiteness of the paper or anything else will affect the print!

I can swap monitors with Jeff, or hook his old monitor up, or disconnect or shut off my monitor and the prints will be the same,

Just wanted to clarify so the printing part will be understood.

As for Jeff's question regarding the topic boring anyone, I checked Amazon, and there has been no uptick in sales of Pajamas, bedding, slippers, bathrobes, or nightshirts. So I guess we are all very absorbed.

Happy new year all.
Fred

Absolutely!
My main reason for getting a new monitor was that I could not get the old one to match the print. The old tube-type back light had obviously deteriorated. Some colours were too saturated on my old monitor despite it being calibrated. The new Eizo, calibrated with the same device, is now a very good match.
However, Eizo and their help videos make it quite clear monitor brightness must be adjusted to match the print. I started with 100CD/M^2 but then went darker to 80CD/M^2 to get a good match.
I use gloss, semi gloss and matte papers and it seems to work for all - matte having a little less saturation than gloss as expected.
Terry

Hi Jeff,
If there's a good match with the print - I'm sure colour will be - the only thing is brightness setting. I see you have 80CD/M^2 (same as me). Are you getting matching shadow detail as well highlights?
Terry

I found it was best to use one the the many test images available on-line. Here are my favourites:
http://http://digitaldog.net/files/ (http://digitaldog.net/files/) - the "printer test file" jpeg
http://digitaldog.net/files/Printer%20Test%20file.jpg (http://digitaldog.net/files/Printer%20Test%20file.jpg)

http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html (http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html) - download link at bottom of page.

I found the grey scales useful for judging shadow and highlight detail.
However, especially with the Outback tiff image, some the dark end of the grey scale patches could not be differentiated on the print (good quality paper), BUT the monitor matched the print! I confirmed this by adding a couple of ticks of fill in the QU Editor too make the make the dark end patches clearer and re-printed. Again, the monitor matched the print so I was satisfied with my brightness setting.
I supposed this demonstrated the limitations of a print to show all shadow detail.

Terry

Hello Terry

Thanks for the links.

I have seen some of those images before, I bet they are on my system somewhere.
The digitaldog site does not load from that link, but a google found it.

Will move on and do test prints using the test images.

Jeff   

Have fun!
The link works now, I messed up copying it.
Terry

Here's a story from today.
My wife did some cabinet drawer rearranging, and lo and behold, a large packet of 8.5 x 11 heavy glossy paper with no name on the back or writing on the package. I have no idea how long that was buried in that drawer, but since it was exhumed, might as well try it.
How to know what settings will match the paper?
I made a print of a colorful image using my HP Advanced glossy profile and setup.
Guess what? Did not match my profiled monitor.
I went to the EPPG profile made for my Canon printer, and tha proper setup for that paper. (Epson Premium Photo Glossy)
Printed, let it dry, and compared to my monitor, right on the money, or spot on whichever you like netter.

Accurate monitor profiling came in handy.

Fred

Jeff,
I've been reading your posts again and looking at screen shot from Color Navigator 6. I don't think you have the best settings for photography.
See my screen shot attached.
I would forget all about profiles for particular papers, photographic colour management will take care of that with a paper profile. Keep it simple and just do the basics, create a new target and delete those weird ones you have there. Use a name related to the target settings and not the paper.

I strongly recommend you use the target settings from my screen shot,except maybe for the brightness (I do see you are using 80CC/M^2)
The Eizo manual  recommends Priority "standard" although probably not too critical. 6500K is the usual setting for photography too.

Sorry to be "bossy", but you may not be getting the best out of this new monitor.
Terry

Hello Terry.

I am not getting that much time to mess about this week.  SWMBO got me 'out' most days.

But what I have done is proving amazing.

I have created another 'profile' to  your suggested values and test printed.

All prints are comming out best I have produced.  Cheap paper 10p a sheet, and 60p a sheet Permajet 271 Gloss as far as my eyes can see are exactly the same as screen and each each print no difference.

This is the Big tiff test chart you suggested.

On screen this chart's scale at bottom right reading right to left 243 to 254 I can see the patches as far as 251 (just) 252 to 254 are the same as paper color.

Previously I have not been able to get exact print screen match with out fiddling with QI Brightness and or fill values and that chart has a hell of a lot of tones and shades.  Even then could not gaurantee accuracy.

Now at point when I could print with confidence without small test prints.

SWMBO now called me to the bar.

Jeff