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Mike Chaney's Tech Corner > Technical Discussions > Computer Hardware > My New Monitor - An Early Christmas Present
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Author Topic: My New Monitor - An Early Christmas Present  (Read 63344 times)
Jeff
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« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2018, 05:07:47 PM »
Quote from: Terry-M on January 06, 2018, 01:24:16 PM
Quote
I have found a HDMI cable in my spare cable box, but it has no integral filter fitted.
Not sure what you mean by "integral filter" unless it's like those cylindrical things you get on some USB cables.
If that's the case I wouldn't worry about it - why would you want to filter the signal?
My Graphics card has a mini HDMI socket so I had to buy a new cable, it has no filters. Amazon have a big choice of HDMI cables.
BTW. I assume you have connected to monitor via USB too, that is essential for hardware calibration system.
Terry

Hello Terry

Yes one of those cylindrical things.
Yes Monitor connected to USB.

Done a very good first print considering on Poundland paper.

Now find that it is possible to establish the "white" of the individual paper with the Eizo ColorNavigator.

Checked some of my papers and there is a difference in white.
No time to fully explore at moment, presume this will allow creation of a monitor profile just for a paticular paper.

Will see if it works/is worth the effort.

Jeff




 

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Terry-M
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« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2018, 07:32:03 AM »
Hi Jeff
Quote
Now find that it is possible to establish the "white" of the individual paper with the Eizo ColorNavigator.
I noted that feature too but have decided to live with the slight differences in paper white.

Edit. Having a monitor profile for different papers would make image editing complex in that an image would need to be edited knowing what paper it was to be printed on. That's ok if you use only one paper.
I've always assumed the paper printing profile compensates for paper white to some extent.
Terry
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 07:46:40 AM by Terry-M » Logged
Jeff
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« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2018, 08:37:35 AM »
Quote from: Terry-M on January 07, 2018, 07:32:03 AM
Hi Jeff
Quote
Now find that it is possible to establish the "white" of the individual paper with the Eizo ColorNavigator.
I noted that feature too but have decided to live with the slight differences in paper white.

Terry

I generally use only two papers, the Poundland for non critical stuff such as providing friends with copies - they only seem to modify them with thumb prints and scratches.

Permajet oyster for real quality prints.

Also I like to 'fiddle' and explore new toys.

Jeff
 
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Jeff
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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2018, 04:53:15 PM »
continuing experimenting.

Have created monitor profile as suggested by site below.

https://imagescience.com.au/knowledge/hardware-calibration-targetsPROOFING
 
FOR GLOSS & SEMI-GLOSS PAPERS
Set your monitor to a whitepoint of around 6000K.
Set your brightness to 100 cd/m2.
Set the contrast ratio to 200:1 or slightly higher (= black point of 0.5).
Allow the monitor to use it's full native gamut, or you can load a printer profile to define the gamut target.

Done two prints, on cheap paper, excellent result when viewed under D65 lamp I will check daylight to morrow.
Funny thing though the Printer Preview is awful.  A golden autumn tree colour is showing a terrible, (we would say) gourdy red.

To the Forum Moderator.

If it is thought these posts of mine are trivial and of little interest on forum please say.

Jeff
 
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Terry-M
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« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2018, 05:38:36 PM »
Hi Jeff,
I set black point to minimum and used 6500K which is what I always thought as the norm for photography.
Not sure why you would say "FOR GLOSS & SEMI-GLOSS PAPERS"? It's a monitor profile. OK, a matte paper has less contrast but I've never heard of using different profile for different paper types.
Don't make life more complicated than it need be.
Quote
Funny thing though the Printer Preview is awful.  A golden autumn tree colour is showing a terrible, (we would say) gourdy red.
It's not a funny thing, it's normal for a print preview on a colour managed system to show totally inaccurate colours.
Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2018, 09:37:00 AM »
Hi Guys,
I have been reading the many fascinating posts on how to really and accurately profile a quality monitor.
You are to be applauded for your tenacity and refusal to accept less than perfection;
This:

Quote
Ignore those Targets altogether. I think I said in my email to you Click "Create New Target", set profile to "Native" and I suggest you start with brightness of 100Cd/Msq
See screen shot of my targets - you can see I'm using 80cd/Msq.
Read those article I sent you, especially  the Native Digital ones.

and this:

Quote
FOR GLOSS & SEMI-GLOSS PAPERS
Set your monitor to a whitepoint of around 6000K.
Set your brightness to 100 cd/m2.
Set the contrast ratio to 200:1 or slightly higher (= black point of 0.5).
Allow the monitor to use it's full native gamut, or you can load a printer profile to define the gamut target.

Done two prints, on cheap paper, excellent result when viewed under D65 lamp I will check daylight to morrow.
Funny thing though the Printer Preview is awful.  A golden autumn tree colour is showing a terrible, (we would say) gourdy red.

I am bothered by the super technical approach (entirely accurate) of Terry's comments, coupled to Jeff somehow giving the impression that his new monitor profile produced better prints.
There are many people new to printing and color management who read from the forum.

What Jeff is doing and what Terry has always done is produce an accurate color, brightness and contrast on his monitor that will match the prints made using an accurate print profile; one created for each  paper type.

That having been said, nothing Jeff is doing to profile the monitor for brightness, contrast, whiteness of the paper or anything else will affect the print!

I can swap monitors with Jeff, or hook his old monitor up, or disconnect or shut off my monitor and the prints will be the same,

Just wanted to clarify so the printing part will be understood.

As for Jeff's question regarding the topic boring anyone, I checked Amazon, and there has been no uptick in sales of Pajamas, bedding, slippers, bathrobes, or nightshirts. So I guess we are all very absorbed.

Happy new year all.
Fred
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Terry-M
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2018, 11:36:20 AM »
Quote
That having been said, nothing Jeff is doing to profile the monitor for brightness, contrast, whiteness of the paper or anything else will affect the print!
Absolutely!
My main reason for getting a new monitor was that I could not get the old one to match the print. The old tube-type back light had obviously deteriorated. Some colours were too saturated on my old monitor despite it being calibrated. The new Eizo, calibrated with the same device, is now a very good match.
However, Eizo and their help videos make it quite clear monitor brightness must be adjusted to match the print. I started with 100CD/M^2 but then went darker to 80CD/M^2 to get a good match.
I use gloss, semi gloss and matte papers and it seems to work for all - matte having a little less saturation than gloss as expected.
Terry
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Jeff
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« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2018, 09:24:35 AM »
Quote from: Terry-M on January 09, 2018, 05:38:36 PM
Hi Jeff,
I set black point to minimum and used 6500K which is what I always thought as the norm for photography.
Not sure why you would say "FOR GLOSS & SEMI-GLOSS PAPERS"? It's a monitor profile. OK, a matte paper has less contrast but I've never heard of using different profile for different paper types.
Don't make life more complicated than it need be.
Quote
Terry

This business of calibration and profiling at times can get confusing.

But, with this new hardware stuff in the EIZO, surely that is what we are doing - adjusting the screen to give a better view of how accurate the print will look.
Clipboard 30 ColorNavigator window, what are the default targets Web Design, Photography or Printing for if not just that?     

I contacted the Author of site and asked if he was saying a screen setting for each type of paper, his reply is :-

"Not so much each type of paper (in terms of brand / paper type) - more so
each type of  paper in terms of class (fine art matte / fine art matte
warmtone / semi-gloss etc)."

I am working on the assumption that we use the monitor adjusted for our intended out put, Web Design, Photography or Printing.
I produce more images for viewing on screen and web than for printing.
So when a image is required to print just re process the image with monitor set in printing mode. 
Using QI is so quick that reprocessing time would not be an issue.

Now whether I have the ability to fine tune the settings is another matter.

Jeff
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Terry-M
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« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2018, 01:51:38 PM »
Hi Jeff,
Quote
Now whether I have the ability to fine tune the settings is another matter.
If there's a good match with the print - I'm sure colour will be - the only thing is brightness setting. I see you have 80CD/M^2 (same as me). Are you getting matching shadow detail as well highlights?
Terry
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Jeff
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« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2018, 04:18:17 PM »
Quote from: Terry-M on January 11, 2018, 01:51:38 PM
Hi Jeff,
Quote
If there's a good match with the print - I'm sure colour will be - the only thing is brightness setting. I see you have 80CD/M^2 (same as me). Are you getting matching shadow detail as well highlights?
Terry

Probably not, looked at print again with D65 lamp (still no daylight here) and there is slightly less detail in the shadow area.

But then this is only on cheap paper, will move on to expensive stuff when I have better idea of what I am doing. and take another shot at processing.

My actual test image can be viewed at

http://jmila4.wixsite.com/ejdigitalimages/blank?lightbox=dataItem-jcanym1g

I cannot get at the site HTML code to link to the actual 6 meg jpeg.


Jeff


 
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Terry-M
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« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2018, 08:00:08 AM »
Quote
My actual test image can be viewed at  ....
I found it was best to use one the the many test images available on-line. Here are my favourites:
http://http://digitaldog.net/files/ - the "printer test file" jpeg
http://digitaldog.net/files/Printer%20Test%20file.jpg

http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html - download link at bottom of page.

I found the grey scales useful for judging shadow and highlight detail.
However, especially with the Outback tiff image, some the dark end of the grey scale patches could not be differentiated on the print (good quality paper), BUT the monitor matched the print! I confirmed this by adding a couple of ticks of fill in the QU Editor too make the make the dark end patches clearer and re-printed. Again, the monitor matched the print so I was satisfied with my brightness setting.
I supposed this demonstrated the limitations of a print to show all shadow detail.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 09:38:42 AM by Terry-M » Logged
Jeff
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« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2018, 08:51:10 AM »
Hello Terry

Thanks for the links.

I have seen some of those images before, I bet they are on my system somewhere.
The digitaldog site does not load from that link, but a google found it.

Will move on and do test prints using the test images.

Jeff   
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Terry-M
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« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2018, 09:40:02 AM »
Have fun!
The link works now, I messed up copying it.
Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2018, 10:55:16 AM »
Quote
Hi Guys,
I have been reading the many fascinating posts on how to really and accurately profile a quality monitor.
You are to be applauded for your tenacity and refusal to accept less than perfection;

Here's a story from today.
My wife did some cabinet drawer rearranging, and lo and behold, a large packet of 8.5 x 11 heavy glossy paper with no name on the back or writing on the package. I have no idea how long that was buried in that drawer, but since it was exhumed, might as well try it.
How to know what settings will match the paper?
I made a print of a colorful image using my HP Advanced glossy profile and setup.
Guess what? Did not match my profiled monitor.
I went to the EPPG profile made for my Canon printer, and tha proper setup for that paper. (Epson Premium Photo Glossy)
Printed, let it dry, and compared to my monitor, right on the money, or spot on whichever you like netter.

Accurate monitor profiling came in handy.

Fred
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Terry-M
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« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2018, 05:41:56 PM »
Jeff,
I've been reading your posts again and looking at screen shot from Color Navigator 6. I don't think you have the best settings for photography.
See my screen shot attached.
I would forget all about profiles for particular papers, photographic colour management will take care of that with a paper profile. Keep it simple and just do the basics, create a new target and delete those weird ones you have there. Use a name related to the target settings and not the paper.

I strongly recommend you use the target settings from my screen shot,except maybe for the brightness (I do see you are using 80CC/M^2)
The Eizo manual  recommends Priority "standard" although probably not too critical. 6500K is the usual setting for photography too.

Sorry to be "bossy", but you may not be getting the best out of this new monitor.
Terry
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