Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

I am catching up on archiving to DVD.
I read somewhere recently that if you write at slower speeds, then a more durable impression is made onto the DVD.
Is this true? I am using 16x DVD +R discs.
Terry.

I don't think they are more durable, Terry, but they are more 'compatible' with different DVD machines if you 'slow' down the burn routine a notch or two from it's upper end.

Bob, Thanks and a belated welcome to the forum with your first post.
I actually slowed it down to 8x rather than using the full 16x; it just means waiting a little longer.
Terry.

At your age, I don't know if you can afford to wait longer.  :-X  :D

I don't know if my thinking is technically accurate or not, but years ago when CDs were the only rage, that theory about slower the better permeated the scene.
I think the burning process and the coatings might be far better on today's DVDs than the days of the CD only.

I have thousands of DVDs that we burned starting many years ago, and as we select one here and there, there seems to be no problem reading or playing them.
On the other hand, I have a tall tube of CDs that holds (for example) software like Qimage.exe et al, and when I want to resurrect an oldie, I hold my breath, because 1 out of 10 will not read.

Your post caused me to pull out some saved CDs from the 90s. Whoosh! That's me blowing the dust off.  :o
These seem to work fine.... Maybe I tossed the ones that didn't read.

I still have the adapter from my first external CD drive. !!

Fred

I have found the odd image CD that does not read properly, only about 7 years old too.
Terry

I have another question:
When we needed blanks (DVDs), we tried the least expensive, and then one  step up, and then another step up. Not a big price difference, more like 10 dollars a hundred from top to bottom of the scale.
We did find a difference though.
The cheaper ones had more 'duds' per hundred than the better ones, and the next up, better yet, no duds per hundred.
By more duds per hundred, I would judge 12 out the hundred would fail.

We ended up using the best of the three since the wasted time re-doing the project because of the dud was certainly worth the extra 10 cents.

Any one else with similar or opposite experiences?

Fred

I'm using several external SATA harddrives, connected via the Sata Quickport Pro from Sharkoon:
http://www.sharkoon.com/html/produkte/externe_gehaeuse/sata_quickport_pro/index_en.html

It uses eSATA attached directly to a SATA port on the motherboard. Mounting and unmounting is done via the free program HotSwap! :
http://mysite.verizon.net/kaakoon/hotswap/index_enu.htm

Thanks for the belated welcome, Terry. But I've been here (and on the group) for a while - and have often posted (in my mind) - being a lurker of sorts <grin>.

But Fred may have another answer just as well with:
Since I don't burn 'that many DVD's' I tend to purchase those from the better known brands - usually more expensive that the bottom basement names. So I guess a combo of both might be in order?
Therefore, I don't experience very many (if any) bad dvd's. Lucky I guess.

That is what I do and look for a good deal.
Terry.

Terry-

I generally slow down one notch.  I.e, burn 16X at 12X.  I think it is as much the burner as the disc when there are problems.

That said, "you get what you pay for" is certainly true in CD/DVD.  Top of the line is generally considered to be Taiyo Yuden, but you have to buy them from some of the media houses.  Also, the most expensive.

I stay away (!!!) from Memorex.  Maxell, Verbatim, TDK and Sony are good.  Phillips also.  Read the box: made in Taiwan is a good thing compared to made in China.

Also, each company has their good and better.  Their "type" is on the can.  Their part # or RMM; not the barcode.  You can search these on line and see if there are problems.

The dye and the foil backing are the keys to longevity.  Some dyes fade quickly and some foils delaminate.  (To destroy a disc scratch the foil side too.)

Try club.cdfreaks.com (http://club.cdfreaks.com) and www.cdr-zone.com (http://www.cdr-zone.com) and see what's what.  They test everything.

I HAVE seen data disappear in as little as two days (Memorex). 

Always let your software do a verification after burning.  More problems will show up here than on the initial burn.

Another thing I have found is checking written discs on the same machine is risky.  They usually work.  The most finicky DVD player is the home video player, so I stick them in there (later) and just see if they will read.  I don't go through them.  Even just sticking them in another computer will do as a test.

Okay, a lot of work and a little paranoia, but I used to tell people (in my IBM days) "what's your data worth?" and how long will it take to rebuild it.

Your post got me searching as Fred did.  I found a stack where I had burned to CDs then burned the same data on five CDs to one DVD.  That was back when DVDs were expensive.

Okay, more information than you wanted to know.  Try those two sites and see what is good.

Seth,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I use well known brands like Sony or Verbatim and don't seem to have any problems. I do have a secondry back-up on a hard drive. Sony DVD's I have at present were made in India.
I'll have to see if they've been reviewed on one of those web sites.
Terry.

Terry, because this is a very important issue for me, I would like to share my experience with you on this issue.  First, I archive on Taiyo Yuden products for my clients, but I am not advocating their products...just reporting my experience.  With that said, I also use Verbatim.  I always use ink jet printables and print the disc info onto it.

I might burn 100G or more each month, enough to burn out the CD/DVD burners every so often.  I keep my burn speed down to 1/2 of the rated speed, usually 8x.  I only do this because I archive a lot, and I always verify the burn.  So most importantly, I get less verification errors at 1/2 speed.

I also keep copies of these files on two hard drives, and reburn the discs every three years, I have not had parts on the discs go bad in less than that.  I also transfer older hard drive files to larger storage units as technology develops, and I eventually reburn the disc from the transferred files.

I have very few problems with corrupted files burned at 8x.  I store the discs in a dark, temperture and humidity controlled enviroment.  Guessing, maybe I lose 1 or 2 pictures (NEFs and TIFFs) out of 250G.  I am not very technical, so in a practical sense it appears that these relatively few errors occur during hard drive transfers and are not due to disc error.

I hope this helps.

Here are a few sites reported as McAfee Secure links that I found useful and easy to read.  This one has links at the bottom that I use to learn about different media.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R

And this one is good too, (though the author uses a mis-spelled Japanese phrase meaning "Thank you very much" in the title name, which btw also appears in the lyrics of Mr. Roboto by Styx)...but it is also secure.
http://www.epinions.com/review/Taiyo_Yuden__DVD_R47WPYSB8__DVD_R_Media/content_215012118148

I have no commercial interest in this site, I post it just for your convenience to see the products and prices of what I use.  It too is reported as secure.
http://www.supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden-dvd-r-media.html?kwmid=513&kmcid=2945700296&match_type=&gclid=CPSV3ubkuZwCFeFM5QodEjTmnQ

Taiyo Yuden is one of the ones to have!!  If one uses "disc info" software, TY usually comes up with some of the versions of the better brands.  Again, they are a Taiwan marking on the label--not China. 

OTOH, they have their low end also; usually sold by the big media houses in loooowww priced stacks.

I made an inquiry directly to Taiyo Yuden regarding their media because this is such an important issue to me.  Here is their reply:

"Thank you for contacting us.

Currently our discs are all made in Japan though they are sometimes packaged in China. If you see ‘made in Taiwan’, they are not our media. We have a different grade for Valueline brand and other area.

Best regards,
JVC Advanced Media U.S.A. Inc.
TAIYO YUDEN (U.S.A.) INC.
Chicago (Sales Headquarters & Midwest Regional Sales) Office"

If you want a look, here is a link to this particular "different grade" (low end ???) product they mentioned:
http://www.ioproducts.com/tayuvalidvme.html

Yep, brain fart. T-Y is Japanese.  Ritek is Taiwan.  They have good and low end.

I would stay away from the T-Y valueline for long term, though for handouts to clients, they are cheaper.

T-Y is still the best out there.  Although I do not print on the surface, I buy those for the added protection and writeability.

Sorry for the mis-lead.

No problem, thanks Seth.

I have also made an inquiry with Verbatim, I'll post their answer too as soon as I get a response.

UPDATE:

Verbatim actually called me and we had a short converstaion, I took notes...and here is their response:  Taiyo Yuden does not manufacture the Verbatim brand, they are manufactured using their own high quality process.

They use the highest standards for all of their products, but some of their products cost more because they are used for mass production and require a more expensive process.  These are designed to meet the needs of software developers and producers, and are used to make master discs that will be used to produce a high volume of duplicates.  It is not necessary to use these products for photography archiving.

All of their products have a 100 year Archiving Life.

well, basically, that is all I could get from them.

UPDATE #2
After a little browsing around, I found this...but it contradicts what the Verbatim Rep told me: (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbatim_Corporation)


Those products are partly produced in Verbatim/Mitsubishi's own plants in Singapore and Japan, and partly under license by Taiwanese and Indian manufacturers.

Verbatim also resells relabeled products from Japanese, Taiwanese, Mainland Chinese, Malaysian and Indian factories (Pearl White DVD series in Europe, some CD-R not labeled Super Azo), including but not limited to products by Taiyo Yuden, Ritek Corporation, CMC Magnetics, Prodisc, Moser Baer, Daxon/BenQ.

Sadly, it doesn't look like Verbatim is very open and transparent about their products, or the rep was just being uncooperative.  Anyway, I'm thinking about going with Taiyo Yuden 100%, they don't appear to be cutting corners, and are not really that much more $$$.

Here is a little about them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiyo_Yuden