Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

I have PC running windows 7 and a epson 2880 printer. I also have spyder3 for calibration.

I use foto speed papers and custom profiles from photo speed. Software is cs5 / elements 8 / lr4 and Qimage rip software

For the past two years all has worked well the prints are close enough to the screen display to satisfy my clients .

I now have a problem where the prints are all printing with a magenta cast and the print preview shows this as well. I know the print preview is not accurate in the Epson printer software but in this case it now is!

This only happens if I select a bespoke profile via any of the aforementioned software with the Epson printer dialog set to colour management off.

If however I set the software including Qimage to printer manages and select the correct paper profile from the ICM option in the Epson printer dialogue the the preview looks correct and the print comes out as normal.

The effect is as if I had both the printer and the adobe software selecting profiles giving a profile conflict. I think for some reason the off [no colour managment] option in the Epson software is not actually disabling the colour management.

I recently installed then removed the beta version of lr5 and it is since this that the problem has started.

I do not now have a back up that was before the fault started as they get overwritten and I had not realised I had a problem till to late.

I have uninstalled and re-installed both LR and the Epson printer driver but with no change to the above situation.

I have a suspicion that there is a registry fault but have no idea how to rectify it.

 The only other option seems to be to back up all the data files, emails and so on and wipe the hdd and re-install every thing from scratch, which is a big job,

Is there any reason why I cannot carry on selecting the profile via the Epson software and leave the printer controls as the selected option rather than Qimage or any of the other software?

any suggestion or comments any one?

This sounds like a real puzzle.
Let's start somewhere....

First, even though you are sure all is OK, let's do a really close look at a Nozzle check and make sure all the inks are flowing. Do it anyway, and use the first button (AUTO NOZZLE CHECK).

Many software packages install with assorted small config or ini type files, and even when you uninstall, those never clear out.
So you may have some LR preset turned on and are not aware.

So let's take a fresh image from your camera.... from a card preferably, where it wasn't Uploaded by LR.
Open that image in Qimage.
With mouse pointer on the thumbnail, READ the assigned profile from the HOTBAR at the lower left of the Qimage Screen.
Let me know what it says and whether it has asterisks before and after the profile.

Then please let me know what it says in the Printer Prtr.icc box in Job Proprieties in Qimage.
Now, let's check your driver settings.
Let's check the paper type and is it correct considering you are using NON Epson paper.   That means you must select the Epson paper type that your 3rd party paper company used to make the THEIR profile.

That must be correct.
I know you want to roll your eyes because you already checked, but many times, that's the problem.
We look but see what we want to see..... please recheck
Now one more suggestion:   Before you set the driver for paper type, quality, NO COLOR ADJUSTMENT, paper size, etc,
PLEASE!
Click HELP in Qimage, and then click RESET PRINTER SETTINGS!!

Now reset the printer, and try to print!

Fred

Fred thank you for the reply.
ok the printer nozzles are not blocked.

a image read by Qimage direct from a SD card says at bottom left of screen,
 
IMGP6881.DNG,15,136,066 bytes, 4936x3272 (iso 320) f18.0,1/1000. 70mm, ICC:adobe.icm       no asterisks anywhere

Prtr ICC    1FS PFGloss 2880-4K Barclay-A (P,BPC)

attachment # capture shows settings as I always used to set them
attachment # capture2 shows preview with the above settings and that's how it prints!!
attachment # capture3 is settings using the same profile for the gloss paper in the printer dialog and Qimage prtr ICC set to let printer manage
attachment # capture4 shows preview with the above settings and that how it prints and that's what capture two should look like and indeed used to.

regards Alistair

Ah apologies I did not reloise that I could only send one attachment at a time so the other are below

capture2

capture 3

Alistair,
I have one immediate question/
Does your camera produce DNG images?
Otherwise, I have  to ask how did it get converted?

Moving on.........  After seeing the screen snaps you sent, I think I see a strong increase in saturation as opposed to a magenta cast.

It's the reddish building that went extra strong while the sky and foreground stayed OK.

I would ask that you make a small test print. You don't have to waste a full sheet of A3+ and use that to judge. It's not always the best to use Print Preview.
I have had many print previews that show faded out colors, only for the print to be perfect.

See my screen snaps:   One is a print preview and the other the print.
Now look at # 156. That is a screen snap of the Print Preview box with ICM and Let Printer manage color.
That may look better or closer, but the print preview box is not REAL!

Did you do a RESET printer as requested?

Is there any way to make a print on a different printer as a test.?

Can you at least try a different profile for the printer paper, even if it isn't perfect. Do you have another type of paper, (semi gloss or Luster) that you can try with a different profile.
I want to see if the problem might be a damaged or corrupt printer profile.
We must narrow the problem down to the printer; The profile; the Image.

Fred

Fred, yes my cameras all are (3) are Pentax and produce dng as a native raw format.

yes saturation rather than magenta cast my incorrect description, apologies.

yes I reset the printer and test prints come out as per the previews I supplied

no I have no other printer

other profiles already tried makes no difference,  its not the profiles corrupted, I have installed a couple of old ones from a previous paper supplier and the same thing happens.

It is as if  the Epson software despite  being set to off (no colour adjustment)  that command is being ignored.

OK
Now we have to explore some other avenues.

Which model Pentax was that image from?

I see you have Version 2012.217 which is a year and a quarter old.
A number of Pentax camera have been added to Qimage Ultimate since then...
We need to check to see if your camera is covered in that version.
Easier would be for you to Update your Qimage. I see from your screen snap that is is showing the updated version to get.

Fred

PENTAX K30 but it makes no difference which camera I try I have tried them all.

 further this problem is not exclusive to Qimage, if i try to print fro CS5, elements 8 or lightroom v3 or v4 it is the same problem.

 as Frank Carson used to say "it's a cracker"

And I can't update Qimage, it is a version no longer supported and I see no need to spend money on a later version that offers me nothing more than I already have, or should I  more correctly say, want.

Your version is supported. You have ULTIMATE.
That's what updating is: additional versions that enhance and add features. If you are over a year since you purchaed it, you need only update your subscription for 19.95.
We both used up that amount in time today :-)
You would avail yourself of at least Deep Focus sharpening... as I see you have set your smart Sharpen to the MAX 20.  
The newer versions also have an updated color engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=AiVoXcB1uzk&vq=hd1080

The only other suggestion is for you to send me the image so I can inspect it and Print it.
Your file is large and you can get it to me using
https://www.wetransfer.com/  (FREE)

wathree.ssz@verizon.net

Fred

Fred, thank you for the offer and the assistance.

given that if i set the profile in the Epson print dialog and that prints correctly is there any reason why I have to set the profile in Qimage  or any of the Adobe products??

Alistair,
With all due respect, you should have the latest version of Ultimate.
This allows me/us to try to match settings and compare results accurately.
So many things have been improved over the last year and a half which can affect results from certain combinations.


This line tells me that you do this work for a living.
Don't you think it behooves you to have the best tools you can get for 19.95. USD?

Hope it works out for you.

Fred

WOW Fred, I am in awe of your dedicated Qimage support!!!

I don't want to "muddy the waters" or increase the confusion but what about going back to a previous restore point. 

The original post refers to the problem starting following a system change or software installation. If recent means in the last couple of weeks, then there is a good chance that a window restore point has been created, and can be used to restore the system to a previous setting.

This has got me out of a jam more than once with Windows 7. Microsoft is in the habit if sending out automatic updates almost weekly, and each update creates a restore point.

Just sayin'

Roy Sletcher
---
For fun I shoot people with a big Canon, and frequently cut off their heads and limbs.

Hi Roy,
That is a damned good idea.  Certainly worth a try.
I hadn't thought of that.
I was zoned in on Printer, Profile, image, and settings.

It's just missing one thing. I always like to know what happened and why.

You also reminded me about a diddly-doo I had from last week.
I stream movies through an Xbox to my big TV using Windows Media Center.
All of a sudden, all the folders that contained movies and music, opera, etc, showed zero files.
I see the files on the computer, but Media Center showed zero files.

Couldn't remember what I could have done, other than I deleted two little programs whose names I didn't recognize....

RESTORE fixed me up.

As for the dedicated Qimage support part, thanks for the kudos....
In truth, in a balanced world with a balanced set of rules, the gentleman in question should have not received any support.
If he doesn't want to support the product and all the work that goes into building it better and better, then why should the product support his problem when he cannot justify $19.99  a year to maintain his membership.
But I tried, because I believe that Qimage Ultimate is the best digital imaging product out there, and unless you must swap a gray sky for a blue sky with clouds, Qimage gives your images more integrity and quality processing that any other product; all for under 100 bucks.... once....  and 20 a year after that to keep current.

I pay AMAZON 80 bucks a year for a PRIME membership... measured against what I get; it's a great deal!
I feel the same about Qimage Ultimate: 20 bucks a year, measured against what I get.... a no brainer.
Maybe that's the operative phrase.  No Brainer!


Thanks,
Fred

Roy thank you for the restore suggestion however I tried that when the problem fisrt became apperant and every time Windows report it could not restore due antivirus software being present. I use AVG and turned it of but unfortunately with the same result. I have asked AVG for suggestions but had no reply yet.

Fred, If you read my replies to your much appreciated suggestions I never said I would not upgrade or that it was pointless to do so.
what I said was "And I can't update Qimage, it is a version no longer supported and I see no need to spend money on a later version that offers me nothing more than I already have, or should I  more correctly say, want."

My understanding from the qimage website was the version I have is not up-gradable and I would have to purchase a complete new version. If that is in fact not correct then i would happily upgrade for a couple of quid.

However given that the problem is present in CS5 , element8, lr 3 nad 4 as well a s Qimage I do not believe updating to a newer version of qimage will either fix the problem or lead us to the cause.

 I suspect a complete format of the HDD and a  restore of windows and then a full install from scratch of all the software will probably be the only solution.

As I said earlier, you HAVE ULTIMATE. That is the current active version of Qimage. The old ones such as PRO, and Studio have been retired.
So you need only to update your membership. to get the latest Ultimate which contains the fabulous DFS sharpeneing solution.

After going over all the facts you presented, it seems that the logical culprit would boil down to bad printer profiles.
You use them in CS4 Elements, and Lightroom and all produce bad results, yet when you remove the printer profile from the equation, prints look good again...

That is where I would look... maybe the paper coating has changed and they have new profiles? Check the website for that paper?

Fred

Hello

Since I recently bought a new Epson 3000 I have been having problems similar to ADWB.  I too use Fotospeed Papers here in UK.  Fotospeed supplied generic profiles for all their papers with their inkflow system.  Using LR4 now 5 the problem showed immediately when I used the new printer.  Previously used R1800 Epson and the problem never manisfested itself with that, using inkflow and Fotospeed papers and profiles made for my machine.  Fotospeed tried to sort the problem out via online PCtoPC and suggested that one should softproof in LR or go to softproof in CS5.  I have produced perfectly acceptable prints from CS5 but it is more problematic from LR.  Having spent a day trying numerous combinations, googling last Friday (28/06) threw up QI.   I immediately downloaded and printed a couple and they matched exactly monitor so was sold and bought immediately.  As I played around with QI, I realised that the settings in QI had been set for Printer Managed (using the correct ICC profile).  The Epson preview window (which I accept is not accurate) did match the monitor and prints were perfect (almost) but when I let QI manage the paper profile, with printer driver Colour Mgt off, I get exactly the same results as ADWB.  The preview window enhances any tone that it is remotely red and the resulting print is more saturated, than allowing Printer to manage. 

Using a RAW image direct from a Sony A99 I get exactly the same results with QI as I do in LR5.  That is in terms of oversatuaration of reds in particular.   It makes no difference if I softproof or not in LR.  The printer managed profile is as per monitor (calibrated) whilst the LR5 managed paper profile is slightly more saturated.  This is particularly noticeable with skin tones.  Where the original looks 'normal, the software managed paper profile shows a distinct rosy complexion.  Preview windows for the Epson 3000 reflect what comes out, i.e. prints match preview window (which is slightly more saturated than prints).

By and large the prints allowing QI or LR to manage and not the printer are acceptable but I would rather the tones are not as saturated, and find it frustrating that the paper profiles used by either software are not wholly reliable.

As ADWB has exactly the same problem (and my screen shots would look similar) this suggests that it may be down to the Fotospeed paper profiles, although I do not understand why if the printer seems to interpolate these correctly with less inbuilt 'accuracy' compared to QI, it can be the paper profiles.

If I get acceptable prints using the printer driver rather than or LR then one side of me say I should not be bothered, but the other says that the software, especially QI, should do a better job and hence i want to get it right.  To that end i did wonder about using Prism but at another $80 that seems a bit too far when Fotospeed will produce custom profiles.  But again if the printer produces reasonably accurate prints with the generic profiles it suggests to me that it is the software?

What suggestions does the team have?

Chris M

Hi Chris...
Seems awfully coincidental, same paper company which sends you their profiles.
Question,  When you request a printer profile from that company, do they ask for the printer brand and model, and allow a download which is different depending on whether you selected Glossy ot Luster or matte type paper?

Rule of thumb.
Qimage, when you select let Printer Manage color, automatically places a fairly broad RGB color print profile in the Printer Profile Job Property box
This usually couples very nicely with the driver set to ICM in most cases.
If the colors and saturation are close to your profiled monitor and you really cannot find fault with the print, only that you are striving for the best possible, then we have to place suspicion on the supplied printer profiles.

The prints are good when using a generic printer profile, and not good when using the supplied profiles.

Many things could be at the root of the problem, such as their spectrometer out of calibration, as well as them creating profiles from outdated drivers for printers.... or This printer uses the new K3 inks whereas the 1800 used regular pigment...
I really don't know, but the evidence seems to point to the printer profiles.
If you could purchase a small pack of Epson paper from Staples or wherever, and pop in the appropriate Epson printer profile that came with the printer, or can be downloaded for the printer, set the driver to No Color Adjustment (Color OFF), then we will know for sure.
With the Epson profile in Qimage and the driver set properly, and you get a great print, you have the answer.

Fred

Wow Fred - rapid response team!  Thanks.

We do have an answer if not a solution.  I had meant to try Epson's papers as I had some etc and forgot.  So loading the Epson Paper profile and comparing printer managed with software mgd, the results are the same both in LR and QI.  Both provide accurate prints using paper profile from within software or by printer.  I have used two different Epson papers and similar results.  Prints are identical from within printer or via software.  As we have noted already the preview window when software controls the profile does show up much redder, than if printer mags profile.  I should also add the same results are achieved if the image is exported from within LR to QI and then printed.

Thus it is the Fotospeed profiles that must be at fault.  I will ask them to do machine matched profiles for me and see what happens.   or change to Epson papers!!  once I have used my rather large stock of Fotospeed paper!!

Chris M