Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

Something non-technical for a change  ;)
In the past I have tended to avoid getting total strangers in my images, particularly when out in the countryside and taking landscapes. However, I have begun to appreciate the value of including the human figure in such images to give either a focal point, or add to the sense of scale and perspective.
My wife and I had a trip out last Saturday to a popular area in England, the Derbyshire Dales. On a Saturday in the holiday season it was difficult to avoid getting people in the picture so it seemed a good idea to make use of it. These were not close-ups of people so were not intrusive to them, just relatively small features in the photograph, which, I think, adds interest.
I’ve inserted some examples below, no “fine art” stuff, just record shots of a day out. The 3rd is a “village-scape” and like the others, I waited for the people to be in the view.

So what do others think, do you include the human figures in your landscapes, does it enhance or detract?
Did I say "popular", just look at how many people are on top of that hill  ::)
Terry.

Dovedale
(http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/115462149/original.jpg)

Footpath to Dovedale
(http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/115435018/original.jpg)

Ilam Village Cross
(http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/115461844/original.jpg)

Oh just wonderful, Terry!
The effect is startling especially in number one. I would have no idea of the size of that hill without the perspective added by the people.
Number 2 shows me size and distance...
Number is just wonderful with the houses showing the size, and the people adding enough life to be real.

Fred

Thanks for the nice words Fred.
I'm half hoping that someone will disagree and we can then go further.
Also, it would be good if some of our pro's chipped in, does it sell a picture etc.?

Much of the forum is the technical stuff, which is good, but that is a means to an end. We want photographs that invoke an emotional response as well as being technically adequate.
I'm hoping this thread will expand some horizons. 8)

Terry

Hi,

I don't post real often but I thought the people in #1 were a little distracting. My eye was drawn more to them than the beautiful area. #2 was better because of the positioning between the rails. #3 was ok. That picture would have been nice either way depending on what you were trying to show.

As an aside, I am finding this whole Qimage website to be one of my favorites. I print mostly for myself so I don't use all that Qimage can do for me but it sure is nice to have all the features available.

Mike

Terry,

I'm a techie and I'm no pro photographer, so I can only relate to what I "feel" when I look at the photos.  The first thing I notice in shots one and two are that the people are heading toward the camera.  This makes me feel like the people are either leaving the beautiful landscape and heading back to their car, or they are "posing" for shots.  My preference in shots like that would actually be to get the back of the people as they are walking away, into the landscape.  That way you get the idea that they are enjoying the same view that we are and it is less distracting.  In shots like those, showing one person leaning against a tree and looking off into the distance (again away from the camera) is a powerful effect.  I do like the third one.  With the buildings/street, it invites people to enjoy the day and since the two main subjects aren't heading toward the camera, I get the feeling they are enjoying their day and you captured the mood rather than people wondering "who is that guy with the camera" as they walk toward you.

My .02.

Mike

Thanks for the comments guys.
Mike B said One thing I didn't like was the red clothing, too strong on a green landscape.
Mike C said and Mike, you have to remember I was out with my non-photographer wife who was not waiting patiently, I had to get what I could  ;D
A techie comment:
#3 was my least favourite, probably because I had to "work" on it. The easy part was that I had exposed for the bright clouds, when the people came by, they were in the shade of a passing cloud and so a value of +19 was required in Qimage raw refine. The "work" was related to the fact that I should have changed lenses to my Sigma 10-20 but carried on with the Canon 17-85. Not only did I have to correct perspective, but barrel distortion too.

It is fascinating to hear what gets different people to react to photographs.
Of course many of the old masters used figures in their landscapes, one I know well is Monet's Poppy Fields with ladies walking through them.
Just for fun I Googled "figures in landscape" images and there are many examples in both paintings and photographs.
Terry.

The old Masters used chubby naked ladies in a field with poppies and daisies.

That was a trick question!! :D 8) :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Terry I am no Pro

#1 First the big mountain catches my eyes then I see the patch of trees The people in the picture I can't say if it adds or takes away from the picture.
After looking at it I wonder what is on the other side of the rolling hills. The picture give me the feeling that would be a cool place to go to.

#2 First I see the people then I notice the cross over. I think "to myself" that is neat the way they build the wall. Then I look at the mountain and ski. So I go back to Picture #1 to compare the mountains to see if they are the same mountains.

#3 First I notice the ski but my eyes are drawn to the cool buildings. So I have to look at all the scenery. Think "to myself" that must be a cool place to see. If the people in the road weren't there I would wonder where is everybody.
 
Yes, I think they are great pictures. I see the pictures "they make me think" not just look at them and go to the next page. If I had 3 thumbs I would give you 3 Thumbs Up.

Great shots
Thanks for sharing

Ya Me

Ya Me
Thanks for your comments, I'm pleased to hear you enjoyed the photographs.
Some information:
Strictly it's a hill of 942 feet called Thorpe Cloud; a 1000 feet makes a mountain in England.
That is called a "stile", very common on footpaths that cross farmland fields; animals can't use them  ;) and can't be left open like a gate.
Unless it's a "kissing" gate, a sort of swing gate in a tight enclosure, I don't know where the name came from  ::)  ;D
The wall is a dry stone wall, common in Northern England and in part of Victoria, Australia where people from Derbyshire settled.
Terry.

 

There is some great farm land to see, not just places that have bodies of water.
 Never been there, But seeing photos like yours I am able to see what I am missing and think *where would I go if I am going to go on a long trip* and who will baby sit me :D  ;D

Thanks for sharing

Ya Me

Ya Me,
Now picture Robin hood and his merry men fleeing on horseback from the Sheriff of Nottingham and his men.
Arrows raining down on them from the top of Thorpe Cloud, they hold their shields over their heads as they gallop at breakneck speed into the next forest for safety.
Little did they know that Terry-M was hiding behind the large oak with his camera. ::) ::)

Fred

Here's one of 'em  ;D
(http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/114140753/medium.jpg)
Terry.

Nice landscape, some scenes in NZ are very similar, including the use of styles. We don't see much drystone walling though.

It's an interesting question you raise.

To my eye, the people in photos #1 and #3 distract too much (#3 less so). Whereas in photo #2 they are the "framed" subject. 

In photo #1 my eye wants to follow the valley but is repeatedly distracted by the people. I agree with Mike C's comment about preferring people entering  (or communing with) the landscape rather than leaving it .

PETER

You mean like this?

In Zion NP
(http://app.onlinephotofiler.com/images/A_3/3/9/6/86933/ZION2small_52e73.1600x1200.jpg)

Leaving Albania (Well, not too scenic)
(http://photos.msrphoto.com/images/A_3/3/9/6/86933/Leaving_Albania_9273b.jpg)

Chania (KRITI)
(http://photos.msrphoto.com/images/A_3/3/9/6/86933/Chania_068b2.jpg)

I'm glad that someone else has shown some images, I was beginning to think you are all shy & retiring  ;)

Having the one face visible makes this picture I think, thanks for sharing it.
Terry.

Just in case you thought I can't face a back view  ;)
Bald Hill NSW
(http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/105636810/original.jpg)
A headless wedding guest?
(http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/115588264/large.jpg)
A crack on the pier - St Kilda VIC
(http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/105451291/original.jpg)
Hope this is not lowering the tone of this thread  ;D
Terry.

Who, me?  Retarded maybe; retiring, no. ::)

That was Terry's comment.
My thought, Seth, was that his last photo was a little too cheeky for me.  :o
(That's Brit for nervy, right?)

So I can only offer one image as a redemption to bring the thread back on track.  ;)
Fred :o ;D ;D

There goes the forum!  Now we're promoting crack!  :D

Mike

CHEEKY!  :o
Terry

Is this about being a Dirty Old Man or The Shot I Almost Didn't Get? :o

Ya Me

Terry or Seth,
A question:
Re the posted images, what am I doing wrong that my posted images are so small, needing an extra click to become normal size like yours and Seth's?
Fred

Fred,
Your images are attachments, mine and Seth's are "Inserted", second icon in from the left.
Inserted image have to be on a web site somewhere so this forum site is not over-loaded with big files.
Get a web gallery like me, your last attachment, the rear view, could look really impressive then   :P ;D
Terry

Yep, what Terry said.

Note that your thumb of the pic is about 37K but the attached image is 92K.

I would have done as you have but I thought we weren't allowed to.  If we can do attachments it would be MY preferred route.

You can, use the Additional Options line, bottom left of the post screen. It's limited to 128KB per post.
Terry.

Guess I'll stay with what we are doing for the most part.

You know I tried that free Pbase trial thing, and got so confused that I had to call you for help to cancel it, and delete what I had posted on the site.
Ok then I'll stick with ATTACH. from the additional options in the message.
I don't even use the word INSERT especially when I have a Cystoscopy scheduled.  :'(

Thanks anyway, guys!
Fred

Hello.

I generally try to eliminate all people if possible, but then that is me.  Put a landscape in a camera club competition without a figure in it and it is marked down. Judges always seem to require somebody in red jumper.

Three of my shots in the Dordogne from my Silkypix days when I went in for strong colours,  still do, but Qimage raw processing has toned me down a bit.

Damn, how do we post images here?

Jeff

At my club, red jumpers are out; figures in a picture depends on the judge. As we've seen on this thread, opinions vary considerably.

2 ways:
1. As an attachment, click additional options bottom left of the post window; you are limited to 128kB per post.
2. Insert, icon at top of post window, 2nd row, 2nd from left. The image needs to be located on another web site like PBase. You can any size you like.
Terry.

Fred

Your ISP will have given you some webspace, its a simple task to upload your photo to it via FTP and then use insert.
Once you get your FTP address, username and password from them, it's a drag and drop job using a free ftp program like Filezilla. The address you insert will be http://youraddress.com/filename.jpg.

I much prefer inserted images, one less click!

Brian

Thanks,
I'll have a look...
It takes me a while to get the hang of things.
I have Gmail and Verizon FIOS. One of those should have something.
Thanks again,
Fred

Fred
The Verizon FIOS personal web space looks like the way to go.

Brian

(http://JeffMilan.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p912670350.jpg)
(http://JeffMilan.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p912959746.jpg)
(http://JeffMilan.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p734121578.jpg)

Hello All

Actioned my Zenfolio account and posted three images and inserted links here. Hope it works

Jeff

Hello again.

By God it worked, and damn quick too.

Jeff

Jeff

I'm getting blanks with 'Image protected by Owner'

Brian

He has them set to private.  There are probably three options of Public, Private and Password required.

And, looks like IMG links instead of URL links if it was a click-and-go intended.

Hello all

 

(http://JeffMilan.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p912670350-4.jpg)
At 800res
(http://JeffMilan.zenfolio.com/img/v5/p912959746.jpg)
1200res
(http://JeffMilan.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p734121578.jpg)
1200res

The three images appeared on my screen,  they were at 1024 res.  and were originals, so assumed all was OK
I think I may have had originals blocked.  Freed up originals so should now be ok 

jeff

I can only see the first one that says 800 res below it.
Terry

All three came up for me.  Dunno.

The other 2 still said "protected by owner". I copied the url and pasted into FF address bar and got the same result.
Terry

That's really strange, Terry.  I see three in both his orignal post and his re-post.

Have you tried a CTRL-F5 on that page to refresh it?

I can see them all now too, no F5 needed.
I'll check my other PC now.
Something odd is happening, Fred's having problems too.
Terry

Edit: I can see all on the desktop PC now but ctrl F5 was needed.
I'll check Fred's again now.

We are getting there!

I posted originals to get a reasonable size.

Wot did everybody think to them?

Jeff

At last  ;) Perhaps we are back on track with the original question.
Jeff, thanks for sharing the photographs with us. Beautiful scenery, where was it, from the house/castle on the cliff it looked like France or Germany?
I see you included some figures in one of the scenes, in their canoes.
It was a very wet day here yesterday so we decided to visit the Compton Verney Art Gallery (Warwckshire UK) and see an exhibition of John Contable's portraits. That was his speciality before he did most of his landscapes.
However, there were a few landscapes there, one of which had tiny figures in it, walking away from the viewer. If you Google his landscape work, many of them also have figures in them as part of the landscape.
See attached for the one I saw - a rather poor lop-sided image - the real thing was much better!
Terry

Terry

Taken in the Dordogne a couple of years ago.

River scene I think taken from Beynac

The Castel is Chateau de Belcastel, I think that is on the road from Rocamadour to Sarlat.

When in such scenic areas I get 'taken away' and shoot with abandon, then have a hell of a job identifying the shots and spend hours on Google/images sorting out the locations.

These were taken with an Oly 8080 which had/has a very good lens, much better in my view that the Pentax 20d I now use.  The trouble with the Oly was the controls, I just could not manage them. But then leave the camera on 'P' and it did a very good job on it's own. It had a good exposure feature, you could take a number of spot meter readings of various parts of the scene and it calculated an average, a very good average.


Also they (the pics) are pre Qimage Studio - Silky Pix and processed to a very warm rendition.  The actual colours were not that far into the autumn.

I have many more from this holiday, the light was magnificent.  I don't know what it is about SW France, but the light is definitely different.

Back to original subject, I generally try and eliminate people, I think they make scenic landscapes look untidy, but on the other hand you have to make the best of the situation and if a person/animal - much prefer animal - enhances the shot, shoot it.
   

Jeff     
 

 

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YEvENLGy2uo/Snmk1dZ4RDI/AAAAAAAAAEc/nBGtz65gHUM/_MG_7602.jpg
ftp://
Jeff,
Do you see this?
Struggling with Picass 3. If you don't see this, I will dump that altogether and try Terry's Pbase, if I can learn to use that.
Man alive, people complain about a Qimage learning curve? Try that pbase thing,... climbing the alps on a winter road ...
Fred

Fred

Using Opera on Vista, no your image does not load.  I get the URL and when >open>in new window I get not found.

I have a Zenfolio account from a couple of years back,  (a paid for service) which is quite good as long as you get the permission correct :)

Zenfolio gives you a selection of Link URL's.

EG. Gallery, Slide Show, Photo

Under Photo you have Thumbs 80x53 60x60 120x80  200x133 400x266 580x386 800x533 and Original at 1024x683.  That lot applies to the three Dordogne images

Some of my previous images have an original size of 2814x2010. !!!!

http://www.zenfolio.com/

Jeff 
 

I have already dumped Picass 3 and am trying another site.
So far I have determined that I am too dumb to work these sites that everyone finds easy.
I can't make an album.
I make an album and try to add an image, and it says I have to make an album.


I am going to quit this nonsense. Too difficult for me to keep my sanity.
Thanks though, for trying to help.

Fred

You need to put the img tag around your URL
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YEvENLGy2uo/Snmk1dZ4RDI/AAAAAAAAAEc/nBGtz65gHUM/_MG_7602.jpg)

It should look like this.  [img ]htt p://lh3.ggpht.com/_YEvENLGy2uo/Snmk1dZ4RDI/AAAAAAAAAEc/nBGtz65gHUM/_MG_7602.jpg[ /img] (I've inserted spaces to show you what it would look like.


You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.  Pbase is easy peasy.  Give it a few days to get used to how it works out.  Since you automatically have some storage space with your ISP, a program like Jalbum http://jalbum.net/ might work for you.  There is a very small learning curve to Pbase and Jalbum, but once you figure it out, you will wonder what the problem was. :)

People sometimes lend some scale and a point of interest in a landscape photo.  I do stuff like this whenever I can.
(http://www.pbase.com/wingspar/image/72731037.jpg)

This is an old photo.  I'd process it differently today.

[/quote]

Gary,
Some people find certain things easy peasy, and some bump into a brick wall on the same page. 
My nose is badly scraped!  ::)
On the other hand, I have been learning the Verizon software for the same thing, and am making some progress.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/res07p2u/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/NOEGRETS.jpg.w560h694.jpg)
If this works, I have figured the sucker out!
Nevertheless, I really appreciate the encouragement and patience, and thank you for it.

I know Qimage pretty well, but this stuff is new for me.
Thanks,
Fred

I didn’t see that other thread.  It looks like you are getting a handle on it.  This stuff came to me easy, but Qimage has been another animal.  When I got my printer profile made a couple of months ago, I found out stuff about Qimage that blew me away, and it was technical and intense, and I’ve forgotten every single bit of it.  I was worried I’d never get everything set back the way I had it in Qimage before I had to mess with settings I didn’t know existed.

I’ve been using Qimage since June 2004, but you won’t see me lending much help on it.  I just don’t consider my knowledge of Qimage good enough to do anything but get it to do what I need it to do.    ;D