Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

Does anyone know if Qimage will let you print a longer length than the 37" (?) that these printers allow? I would imagine you could set up a roll behind the printer and feed from the back but I don't know if you can override the driver. Anyone have any success doing something  like a 16 x48?

I currently use a 2200 (does really nice prints) but I am looking to get a little wider printer and I'm not sure if I want to go to the 4800 series because of desk space and cost. I hear some wonderful things about the quality of the 3800 series and it seems to be a good bang for the buck, except for the length issue.

Thanks,

Mike

Mike,
To the best of my knowledge, there is no way to user define a page larger than the limits set in the driver. There is no provision for roll paper..
If you open User defined size, you can see the limits;17 x 37.4 inches.

Don't know how to get around that.

Fred

Thanks Fred,

In the past with my 2200 I have printed some canvas and luster prints that were 12.5 x 35 (or approx 3:1) I thought I would like to do the same with the wider printer (i.e. 16 x 48). I guess I'll have to live with 16 x 37. Thanks for the info.

Mike

I have done some extensive searching on google for epson 3800 roll paper and after reading thru a bunch of posts on lots of websites it looks like some people have tried cutting roll paper and then using a rip (which none of them identify). If I'm only doing an occasional pano (16x48 or 60) I could live with that as long as the rip wasn't over 200-300 dollars. Any way, if anyone has heard of anything that might work I'd sure like to know. For 1,200 the 3800 sure looks like a great printer.

I'm assuming that rips would work with Qimage, because I sure wouldn't want to give that up.

Thanks,

Mike

Mike

Rips don't work with QI, they replace it - a Rip is basically a third party printer driver which replaces the epson driver and QI combination.
The problem I would have with printing longer than 37" is that Epson aren't famous for over-engineering their printers, and the 3880 paper feed may not be up to printing longer lengths reliably.

Brian

Brian is 100% right.  I have a close friend here with a 3880 and feeding from the rear slot, max size even user defined is 37.4 inches.
If you were willingf to add 300 to 400 dollars for a rip, why noy add that to the price of the printer and go to the next step up... the 4000 series..e.g. 4400 4480.
They take 17.0 inch wide and roll paper long.
If you don't need the 17.0 wide, then you can back off to a 13" wide format printer.

Fred

Brian and Fred,

Thanks for your input. I have seen the Canon IPF6100 24" printer available for 1695 incl freight and with an extra set of starter inks (70ml). This seems like a great deal for a pretty large printer. I probably won't print too many 24" wide but the roll capability plus sheet feed of all the various sizes should be pretty beneficial. I don't have any experience with Canon printers but upon doing some research it seems like a pretty good printer at a very attractive price. The Epson 3880 is running anywhere from 1295 to 1495 if you can find one available.

Anyway, thanks for your help in identifying the issues with the 3800 series and rips working with Qimage. I can't imagine trying to print any other way than using Qimage. I love the fact I don't have to make all different kinds of files for different sizes. The sharpening is also a huge plus.

Have a Happy New Year,

Mike

Have seen this on the Web for a while now.

http://dahmerphotography.blogspot.com/

Works for a 3800 w/ driver ver 5.5
If anyone has a 3800, may be worth trying out, and its free.

greyscale

I had the same concerns about printing a long panorama on the 3800. The ColorBurst RIP (made specifically for the 3800) will allow you to print the images you want! I tried the 15 day free trail and have been making 60" prints myself. There are different versions for windows and Mac, be sure you get the right one. Cost is now $455, not cheap but it makes the 3800 into a much more versatile printer.

Marty

I have been following this thread and cannot understand the logic of the above suggestion. Why buy and expensive RIP when that $450 could be used to buy one of the 4000 series that take 17 inch wide and roll paper that enable long  panoramas when Qimage is used.
The original poster was concerned about cost, as well as desk space, but certainly from the cost point of view, a 4000 series seems to make more sense if you want long prints.
You know Qimage is a bargain  ;D
Terry.

The logic is quite simple...I already own the 3800!!!

It's not for the original poster.
In a previous life, if I'd purchased a machine that only made shafts up to 2m long when the requirement was 5M, I would not be having such a comfortable retirement now. Know your customer requirements and specify the hardware accordingly.  :o
Terry.

Hi Mike,

For about £400 (uk) (probably much less elsewhere) you can get a used stylus pro 4000 printer. It is well engineered, compared to the 3000 series. It wastes no ink in changing from matt to gloss black - I believe later models use ink in changing from matt to gloss. Quality compatible pigment ink, with refillable cartridges costs about £60.00 per litre. It will print on card, has vacuum suction, cut off knife, etc. The front tray pushes in, the rear roll holder is easily removable, and if space is limited it could be mounted above the printer. Also, full service manuals are available on the web, including details on resetting the waste ink, etc. If you want long prints on canvas, it will be the lowest cost option. My understanding is that the 3000 series do not work too well with canvas. Without the roll holder at the back of the printer, and the front paper tray closed the desk area required - but it needs to be a strong desk- is about 32 inches wide by 21 inches deep. For comparison, the A3+ stylus r1800, with cis will be about 27 inches wide, by 15 inches deep with its roll holder removed, which is not that much smaller. I guess your 2200 is somewhere between the two.

Best wishes,

Ray

Know your customer requirements and specify the hardware accordingly

Did you ever stop and think that requirements might change? Did you ever stop and think at all?

Just for the record, I will assume that you accidentally forgot to put a smiley after your comment.
Otherwise, someone might think you were insulting Terry.
Of all the people on this forum, Terry is perhaps, the most thoughtful and helpful person.
Most folks consider themselves lucky if they get a reply from Terry. His helpful suggestions have made learning some of the digital imaging stuff easier for all.

Fred

Another reason for using the 38xx series as opposed to the 48xx or bigger is the cost of the black ink change from photo to matte. The 3800 is a couple of bucks, all of the others are big $$$ since they flush the system. At least one site quotes the change costing $75USD on a 4800. I think it's lower on the 4880 as they now use a "conversion kit" but it takes 10-15 minutes and still uses a lot of ink. It doesn't take too many changes to pay for a RIP on the 38xx. And, if you want to go longer than 90 inches on the 48xx, you'll need a RIP anyway. The Epson driver is limited to 90 inches.

I don't think that is the case if you use Qimage  (a fraction of the cost of a RIP). The Poster feature of Q allows you to overcome that limit when the printer is set to Banner mode. See learn by Example 6a in  Q Help.

I was surprised to learn that the 3880 does not require flushing when the black cartridges are exchanged, what happens with the "wrong" ink already in the head etc., doesn't it matter when it is used up at the first printing operation after the exchange?
Terry.

With Qimage, you can print 590 inches long with a 48xx Epson. No RIP needed.

The 3800 only flushes the single matte or photo black cartridge, not the full set from what I understand. It obviously goes through some type of flush given the noises it makes during the change.

Also, thanks for the info on long prints on the 48xx. Didn't know that Qimage would override Epson's driver - why won't it do that on the 3800???

That is because the 3880 has no facility for roll paper and therefore no banner mode. Qimage requires Banner mode to be set in the driver.
Qimage does not "override" the driver as such but uses it's own Poster mode where a "poster" is made of 1 column and 'x' pages. Each page has to be of a size less than the driver length limit and each page gets printed on the roll as one complete seamless print image, neat!  8) I think my explanation is correct. Fred will put us right if not  ::)
Terry.

That's the whole point. There are 3 black cartridges that can be used in the 3800 (calling gray a black) and they never get swapped. The software controls which blacks are to be used for a certain paper as well as whether it is using the B&W driver or the color driver.
It works in similar fashion to the Gloss optimizer in my R1800.
It gets turned on if I select glossy or semi gloss paper automatically; and off if I select Matte paper.
I think there's an extra ink slot for a special black if needed besides the 8 carts. already there.
Fred

Fred et al

The 3800 (and the 3880) has 4 black cartridges installed - Matte Black, Photo Black, Light Black, and Light Light Black. Only 3 are ever used at one time, the 2 light blacks and either either matte or photo depending on the paper type (automatically selected). Switching from one to the other does waste some ink - from memory it costs around £2.00 to change from photo to matte and around £1.00 to change back (or perhaps vice versa). Unlike the R1800, if you don't use matte black then no matte ink is lost when the printer cleans itself.

Brian

Morning Nrian,
My R 1800 does have a Matte Black and a Photo Black, and they get turned on and off in the software.
As for the 3800, I don't have one, but my friend never swaps black cartridges.
So when do you have to swap one black for another?
Fred

Fred
You don't physically change them, its done by the software like the 1800. The difference with the 3800 is that it replaces the ink in the supply tube (which you don't have in the 1800) when you change, which is where the wasted ink comes in. Sorry if I misled you.

Brian

Brian,
This is what I was reading when I saw your post.
Even my R 1800 does a lot of growling and churning when it gets turned on. I can hear what sounds like a "light" cleaning cycle.
Apparently they all seem to attend to keeping the quality of the print as primary, and the need to economize on ink as secondary

Fred.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/epson-3800.shtml

While the 3800 has both Matte and Photo black carts installed at the same time, they both share the same printhead.  As a result, a certain amount of black ink is used to flush the supply lines when switching between the two.  This is described in Eric Chan's excellent 3800 FAQ:

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/faq.html (http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/faq.html)

Is this a downgrade?  Although I have only used banner paper and roll up to 36", the R2400 has user defined length to 129" as an option (12900/100). 

Seth

Seth,
I could have suggested the R1800 too with a roll paper feed, but I think the 3800 has a great deal of good features, except for the roll paper capability.
It is a lot more printer than my 1800.
Give your 2400 a fresh ink cartridge from me and tell it that I didn't mean to insult it.   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Fred

Okay. I top them and print a CMYKRGB-Bk page every day when I am not using it.

I wrote your name on a cartridge so you get "used" every day.  As if this place isn't enough  ;)

I have been looking at the 3880 for some time but I do like to do panos. After a lot of research I have been seriously looking at Canon ipf5100 and it looks like a really good printer, although a little on the large size. It does roll, front and top feed. Lots of good paper sizes. Price is around 1450 us dollars. Does anyone have an opinion??
 
Probably  should be a different subject, but is there anywhere to research what kind of papers do certain types of photos the best? ie, Black & White look good on Ilford (Hanamuhle, Epson, etc) Color landscape on luster, semi- gloss, or matte? There just seem to be so many choices a guy could go broke just getting samples and profiles to do any of it some justice. Any ideas?

Mike

Red River and Hawk Mountain sell sample packs at a reasonable price.  There are even variables in which sample pack you can order.  Hawk gives (used to) a discount with your first order after that that almost covers the samples.  I also bought a small sample book from them of the papers.

I really don't believe any one, two--or maybe three--papers are the nuts for everything.  Even B&W printers like Clayton Jones and Paul Roark use three or four papers depending on scene effect.

Even with color, I usually use a warmer paper for portraits and the colder ones for art or scenics.