Richard of Bandon
Newbie
Posts: 22
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« on: January 24, 2013, 07:28:06 PM » |
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An epiphany here!
I was reading Mike's Help section under Profile Prism on the QU web site. Under the "Quick start instructions..." item #3: Set print driver settings according to recommendations. Click on this link and Mike's recommendations for printer settings is displayed. Of particular interest is the Note under Option 2, which begins with "Epson printer output varies greatly when the driver is set to "no color adjustment"... I have read tons of stuff regarding color management but this was the first time I ever saw a contrary statement to the accepted "always set your Epson printer to 'No color adjustment' using the check box under ICM." My first reaction was "Holy bloody cow!" I've had my 1400 for three years and just love the print quality. However, the 'too dark' syndrome has always driven me nuts. Sure, I have gone through all of the 'adjust monitor brightness settings' until I was ready to scream...yeah, I got some improvement. It was enough that for each image I 'merely' had to increase brightness and contrast in an image editor before printing. But after printing you have to go back into the editor and reset the B & C back to where they should be so when you compare the print to the monitor image you are comparing apples to apples, so to speak. I was so determined after seeing the incredible results from using Qimage that I bit the bullet and bought the coloroimeter hardware to properly calibrate my monitor (Spyder4Pro). The colors are great, but.... It helped the 'too dark" question only a wee bit. It still required playing the never ending brightness and contrast game (current settings 20 & 35). I said to myself: if the printing guru of the ages, Mike, says 'Under "Color Management", click... "Color Controls" etc it is certainly worth a try. So I went against the grain and did just that. The first print I made knocked me off my chair..."I am reborn!" So you see where the epiphany part came from. The print was neigh almost PERFECT! Hallelujah! Just like that, the difference between 'too dark' and nearly perfect occurred in a mere two minutes.
Suggestion: clicking on the 'Color Controls' opens up Gamma and Color Modes. Select gamma 1.8 and mode RGB.
Be sure ALL sliders are set to "0"....NO color adjustment....
If you own an Epson AND are still fighting the 'too dark' syndrome, give this a go...you will not be disappointed.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2013, 09:04:08 AM » |
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If you own an Epson AND are still fighting the 'too dark' syndrome, give this a go...you will not be disappointed. Not sure that is good advice these days, that was an old article referring to what are now old printer models. The correct setting for colour managed printing is "no colour adjustment". The main reason prints are too dark compared to a monitor is that the screen is too bright. Set the brightness to match a print and re-calibrate the monitor. Most monitor calibration programs, usually in "advanced" mode, allow you to set a luminance value and then guide you in setting the monitor brightness. One or two test prints will show you what luminance value to use as a pre-set. The starting pont for an LCD monitor is 120CD/Msq. Terry |
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Richard of Bandon
Newbie
Posts: 22
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2013, 08:44:21 PM » |
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Thanks for the comments, Terry.
I mentioned that item to Mike in a question to him regarding settings in Profile Prism. He of course said it applied to older printers and even remarked that I should use the standard target profiling my printer and not the one designated 'bright'. Nonetheless, it does not change the fact that there is an anomaly in Epson's driver regarding NCA setting as I can produce a print that significantly gives a closer match to the monitor image using Color Controls. All of this will probably be moot shortly as I hope to spring for a wide gamut IPS panel monitor (NEC EA232Wmi from B&H...very affordable).
This forum is better than sliced bread...
Richard
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Fred A
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2013, 09:04:47 PM » |
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I mentioned that item to Mike in a question to him regarding settings in Profile Prism. He of course said it applied to older printers and even remarked that I should use the standard target profiling my printer and not the one designated 'bright'. Nonetheless, it does not change the fact that there is an anomaly in Epson's driver regarding NCA setting as I can produce a print that significantly gives a closer match to the monitor image using Color Controls. All of this will probably be moot shortly as I hope to spring for a wide gamut IPS panel monitor (NEC EA232Wmi from B&H...very affordable). Richard, Terry is out for a few hours, but may I ask a question that I know he would want to know too. When you say, you get dark prints with No Color Adjustment checked, did you have a proper printer profile in use in Qimage? If not, then it all makes sense. Fred |
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Richard of Bandon
Newbie
Posts: 22
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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 09:15:53 PM » |
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Ah...Fred, you got me again! Forgot to mention that the printer profile I was using was Epson's...that, I guess, says it all. Once I can make my own profiles and revel in the joy of using a proper monitor for photo work, I will be in an euphoric state.  Richard |
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Fred A
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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2013, 09:21:02 PM » |
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Forgot to mention that the printer profile I was using was Epson's...that, I guess, says it all. Once I can make my own profiles and revel in the joy of using a proper monitor for photo work, I will be in an euphoric state.
Don't mean to be a PITA, but what was the name of the profile? Fred |
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Richard of Bandon
Newbie
Posts: 22
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2013, 10:48:35 PM » |
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Fred
Just the standard Epson profile for Premium Photo Paper Glossy: SP 1400 1410 PGPP (P, PBC).
Also received additional info from Mike: "NCA is always darker because it is linear output, but it produces the largest gamut and is the best indication of the color that is reproducible by the printer."
So back to NCA for me. Can't wait to do my own profiles...
Richard
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Fred A
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 11:35:18 PM » |
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Also received additional info from Mike: "NCA is always darker because it is linear output, but it produces the largest gamut and is the best indication of the color that is reproducible by the printer."
So back to NCA for me. Can't wait to do my own profiles...
Richard ... and the last question: Do you adjust the brightness or contrast of the images based on what you see on the screen, before you make your print? In other words, a "too bright" monitor might cause you to darken the image on the screen which is creating dark prints.  ?? Fred |
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Richard of Bandon
Newbie
Posts: 22
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2013, 05:17:19 PM » |
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Fred
I only needed to slightly brighten the screen image to get a fairly close match. Print image, select the thumb and delete the brightness filter, then compare. The truth be told, half the time it seems I forget to first delete the filter before comparing.
One of the joys of being 'retired': remember everything ten years back but damn if I know what I had for breakfast today!
The saga continues. The monitor in question gave up the ghost yesterday and I replaced it with a 19" AOC LCD with LED backlighting ...wow, talk about bright. I find calibrating even more of a challenge. My first attempt produced a white point of over 7000K! If you have any suggestions they would be most welcome. For now I will drop the black point and see how it goes from there. No point in printing until I get all my eggs in a row.
Thanks again, Fred.
Richard
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Terry-M
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« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2013, 05:41:51 PM » |
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Hi Richard, I only needed to slightly brighten the screen image to get a fairly close match. Print image, select the thumb and delete the brightness filter, then compare. The truth be told, half the time it seems I forget to first delete the filter before comparing. Rather that adding a brighten filter to the actual image, you could create a filter to do that and use it as a Print Filter. That way the appearance of the image would not be changed, only the print. Once sorted, save as part of a Print Setup so it will not be forgotten when you print. The best approach is still to try and get the monitor to match the print. My first attempt produced a white point of over 7000K! Not sure how you knew that, where was it reported? When making a profile with the normal 6500k set as the target should be set in the Look-Up-Table (LUT) that is part of the profile data used by your graphics card to set 6500K on the monitor. When adjusting the White point in the profiling software (if that is allowed), absolute precision may not be required because the LUT will take care of it. When the software allows setting of the WP it means there's less adjustment required by the LUT. I think I'm correct in what I say there. Terry |
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Oldfox
Newbie
Posts: 38
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2013, 07:31:38 PM » |
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LCD with LED backlighting ...wow, talk about bright. I find calibrating even more of a challenge. My first attempt produced a white point of over 7000K! If you have any suggestions they would be most welcome.
I use 90 cd/m2. The often recommended 120 cd/m2 is too much in my dim light room. /fox |
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Terry-M
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2013, 08:40:24 PM » |
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I use 90 cd/m2. The often recommended 120 cd/m2 is too much in my dim light room. I realise that 120cd/m2 can look too bright in a dim room but it's important with respect to printing that the screen looks like the print in that respect. You do need to view the print under proper conditions though, like using an Ott Lite. A common complaint here is that prints look too dark, usually because a monitor is set too bright and the image has been darkened to suit that bright screen. Conversely, images adjusted with a less bright screen will tend to print too light. My Eizo monitor adjusts the brightness according to ambient conditions which seems to work well. I must turn that off when calibrating. Terry |
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Oldfox
Newbie
Posts: 38
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 07:54:05 AM » |
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I realise that 120cd/m2 can look too bright in a dim room but it's important with respect to printing that the screen looks like the print in that respect. You do need to view the print under proper conditions
A common complaint here is that prints look too dark, usually because a monitor is set too bright and the image has been darkened to suit that bright screen.
Exactly! That's why I use 90 cd/m2. The brightness value out-of-the-box can be as high 170-180 cd/m2. No wonder the prints are too dark. /fox |
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