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Author Topic: Inexpensive scanner in UK  (Read 24848 times)
tonygamble
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« on: January 08, 2013, 02:33:41 PM »

It's time I varied my paper choice so I need some new profiles.

Profile Prism seems excellent value for money compared with devices such as the ColorMunki (my screen one will not do prints).

My printer/scanner is an old HP Photosmart 2575 and when I asked around here a few years ago nobody surfaced to say it was good enough.

On the basis that it looks as if I can buy a range of scanners, all under £100, would some kind (UK) soul like to come up with a recommendation. How about this as a list to start with:-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=scanner+a4&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=9509697065&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=58565701860599328&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_6q3wmpdvt5_b

Tony
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Fred A
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 02:39:55 PM »

Tony,
My experience is that the Canon LIDE scanners are excellent for Profile Prism.
I have the cheapest one, and it works fine.
I do use Vuescan software with it, but I can't remember why.... perhaps the Twain driver didn't work with W7 64 bit, or something....
My scanner LIDE is very old and still works fine with PP.

I think Terry has a newer one. Maybe he will pop on.
Fred
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tonygamble
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 04:00:35 PM »

Thanks Fred,

Mike recommends Vuescan with Canon. I have it for my Minolta 5400 scanner.

I'll wait a day or so in case Terry, or one of the other Brits, sufaces.

EDIT. For interest I loaded Vuescan on my desk PC and it recognised my HP 2575 as a 2570. And it works, but I am not how accurately.

In any case I need the scanner in my studio where my printing PC lives, so a second device is the right solution.

Tony
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 04:30:47 PM by tonygamble » Logged
vsteffel
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 05:12:20 PM »

A key advantage of Vuescan is that they keep updating it.  If you purchase the "Professional Version" you get unlimited updates.  This helps as Windows OS keeps changing and if you purchase a different scanner.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 05:31:16 PM »

Hi Tony
Quote
I'll wait a day or so in case Terry, or one of the other Brits, sufaces
I have an older Canon 8400F which I use with Vuescan Pro.
I nearly bought a Lide when I upgraded to W7-64 bit but then Vuescan came up with improvements to allow all the features of the 8400F to work on 64 bit. The 8400F not great for profiles though.
I've always understood that Mike recommends The Canon Lide scanners with Vuescan to overcome the limitations of the Canon software.
Terry
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tonygamble
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 07:10:04 PM »

Hi Terry,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_nr_p_4_0?rh=n%3A340831031%2Cn%3A!340832031%2Cn%3A429890031%2Cn%3A430592031%2Ck%3Acanon+scanner+a4+lide%2Cp_4%3ACanon&bbn=430592031&keywords=canon+scanner+a4+lide&ie=UTF8&qid=1357671914&rnid=419150031

Looks like the 700F at £83.40 from this selection.

Tony
PS. I cannot believe the HP 2575, even with Vuescan is good enough from the test I have just done on a simple chart.
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Fred A
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 07:44:09 PM »

Tony,
Use Vuescan set to output as a RAW scan
Fred
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tonygamble
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 07:20:41 AM »

Tony,
Use Vuescan set to output as a RAW scan
Fred

Tried it but it does not register as a RAW in QU. I can see and edit the file but Refine Raw is greyed out.

Tony
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Terry-M
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 09:07:28 AM »

Tony,
Quote
Tried it but it does not register as a RAW in QU. I can see and edit the file but Refine Raw is greyed out.
A raw file from Vuescan is in fact a tiff.
What "raw" means in this context is that Vuescan has not adjusted the file in any way and is the pure data from the scan. That is what you need for a target scan to make a printer profile; Profile prism. PP Help explains this and how to set Vuescan for raw and 48 bit.
Terry
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tonygamble
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 11:33:04 AM »

Before I buy that Canon scanner I thought I ought to send you (Fred and Terry) two files. They are coming across now.

One is a color chart that I used to make a print on my Epson 2400 with QU.

I then took that chart and scanned it on the HP 2575 with Vuescan. The scan may have other incorrections but the most obvious is that it is oversaturated. Maybe the Vuescan is set up wrongly. I am using the settings Mike suggests alongside the Canon section:-
http://www.ddisoftware.com/prism/help/scanner.htm

Of course I have not yet got a version of Profile Prism to try the file on. Maybe it needs oversaturated files?

Assuming the HP is never going to work I'll buy this:-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-9600dpi-Advanced-technology-document/dp/B001TTLM6W/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1357671925&sr=1-3

Tony
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tonygamble
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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 07:22:02 PM »

Should anyone, like me, be poised wondering whether to invest in Profile Prism, but worried about the capabilities of his/her scanner I'll add one more message. I guess Google will pick this up when people having a pretty basic scanner think about buying PP.

I sent my scan of a (non PP) color test chart to Fred and Terry saying 'would you expect the original and the scan to be so different'.

I don't yet own PP so I had not looked at the operating instructions. Led by F & T I now see that when one makes a scan of the results from one's own printer one also puts alongside it a control chart supplied by Mike. This control chart (Mike calls it the IT8 chart) gives PP the references to normalise (my word, not Mike's) the scan. If the scan is too light/dark/saturated or whatever the software can see and it can make corrections so the scan from your printer has the right start point.

I was dubious how one could calibrate a printer (RRP 600UKP for example) which needs to be pretty critical, with an out of the box cheapo (say 60UKP) scanner. Now I know why.

Shoot me down if this is not the right explanation - I'm happy to learn more.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 10:13:32 PM »

The PP general advice on scanner settings is here btw. http://www.ddisoftware.com/prism/help/scanner.htm
An IT8 target in an international standard and has to made to a very high standard. The targets Mike supplies with PP are calibrated and the calibration numbers can be entered into PP.
The print from your own printer is of a special target image  unique to PP with 100's of colour patches.
A typical scan image of both targets is attached.
Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 10:15:22 PM »

Can you find WALDO?
I think there are well over 9000 patches of sampled color.

It is very accurate
Fred
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 10:28:29 PM by Fred A » Logged
Fred A
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 10:32:58 AM »

Quote
I think there are well over 9000 patches of sampled color.

It is very accurate
Fred

The official total of patches is 9,261 on the target image that you print using your printer.

The IT-8 target I believe has 228 color patches.
There are stringent guidelines for these targets, so much so, that they get a CHARGE number, or build number.
Then color corrections are tweaked into a text file  which Profile Prism accepts to match the target Charge number.
Now, the IT-8 is ready to use, and accurate.

The 9000 + color patches on the Printer target will produce a pattern that Profile Prism recognizes and which makes a Printer Profile to make your color as accurate as it can based on the color gamut of your printer.

***   Seriously, I make printer profiles for my HP Advanced Glossy. (Beautiful) But I don't have any HP profiles to compare...
On the other hand, one day Mike told me that he made a few profiles that were noticeably better than the commercial ones that ship / download with the Epson and Canon printers.

So I tried that on my Favorite paper; Epson Ultra Premium LUSTER!   
Shazam! Side by side, mine was better.
So I did my Ilford Smooth Gloss.  Again, the Profile Prism profile won.
I did my Ilford Pearl; same thing.

Not only are the results satisfying, but it's fun to learn and be able to "roll your own"

Fred

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tonygamble
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 11:47:14 AM »

Sounds positive, Fred,

As I said above my first move will be from the individual Epson cartridges to refillable ones - probably Marrutt though Cone (US only) sounds interesting.

I have just done the maths for the last five years.  As you know most of my images never get printed - by me anyway.

I will have spent around £670 on paper. I always tell people that it is the ink that costs the money rather than the paper.
I have spent around £1,900 on Epson ink.

Had I been buying 125ml bottles I would have spent around £280 - plus about £100 for the refillable cartridges themselves.

What put me off third party ink was the thought that it might/would need different profiles. With PP it will be, as you say, Easy Peasy!

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