Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

It's time I varied my paper choice so I need some new profiles.

Profile Prism seems excellent value for money compared with devices such as the ColorMunki (my screen one will not do prints).

My printer/scanner is an old HP Photosmart 2575 and when I asked around here a few years ago nobody surfaced to say it was good enough.

On the basis that it looks as if I can buy a range of scanners, all under £100, would some kind (UK) soul like to come up with a recommendation. How about this as a list to start with:-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=scanner+a4&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=9509697065&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=58565701860599328&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_6q3wmpdvt5_b

Tony

Tony,
My experience is that the Canon LIDE scanners are excellent for Profile Prism.
I have the cheapest one, and it works fine.
I do use Vuescan software with it, but I can't remember why.... perhaps the Twain driver didn't work with W7 64 bit, or something....
My scanner LIDE is very old and still works fine with PP.

I think Terry has a newer one. Maybe he will pop on.
Fred

Thanks Fred,

Mike recommends Vuescan with Canon. I have it for my Minolta 5400 scanner.

I'll wait a day or so in case Terry, or one of the other Brits, sufaces.

EDIT. For interest I loaded Vuescan on my desk PC and it recognised my HP 2575 as a 2570. And it works, but I am not how accurately.

In any case I need the scanner in my studio where my printing PC lives, so a second device is the right solution.

Tony

A key advantage of Vuescan is that they keep updating it.  If you purchase the "Professional Version" you get unlimited updates.  This helps as Windows OS keeps changing and if you purchase a different scanner.

Hi Tony
I have an older Canon 8400F which I use with Vuescan Pro.
I nearly bought a Lide when I upgraded to W7-64 bit but then Vuescan came up with improvements to allow all the features of the 8400F to work on 64 bit. The 8400F not great for profiles though.
I've always understood that Mike recommends The Canon Lide scanners with Vuescan to overcome the limitations of the Canon software.
Terry

Hi Terry,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_nr_p_4_0?rh=n%3A340831031%2Cn%3A!340832031%2Cn%3A429890031%2Cn%3A430592031%2Ck%3Acanon+scanner+a4+lide%2Cp_4%3ACanon&bbn=430592031&keywords=canon+scanner+a4+lide&ie=UTF8&qid=1357671914&rnid=419150031

Looks like the 700F at £83.40 from this selection.

Tony
PS. I cannot believe the HP 2575, even with Vuescan is good enough from the test I have just done on a simple chart.

Tony,
Use Vuescan set to output as a RAW scan
Fred

Tried it but it does not register as a RAW in QU. I can see and edit the file but Refine Raw is greyed out.

Tony

Tony,
A raw file from Vuescan is in fact a tiff.
What "raw" means in this context is that Vuescan has not adjusted the file in any way and is the pure data from the scan. That is what you need for a target scan to make a printer profile; Profile prism. PP Help explains this and how to set Vuescan for raw and 48 bit.
Terry

Before I buy that Canon scanner I thought I ought to send you (Fred and Terry) two files. They are coming across now.

One is a color chart that I used to make a print on my Epson 2400 with QU.

I then took that chart and scanned it on the HP 2575 with Vuescan. The scan may have other incorrections but the most obvious is that it is oversaturated. Maybe the Vuescan is set up wrongly. I am using the settings Mike suggests alongside the Canon section:-
http://www.ddisoftware.com/prism/help/scanner.htm

Of course I have not yet got a version of Profile Prism to try the file on. Maybe it needs oversaturated files?

Assuming the HP is never going to work I'll buy this:-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-9600dpi-Advanced-technology-document/dp/B001TTLM6W/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1357671925&sr=1-3

Tony

Should anyone, like me, be poised wondering whether to invest in Profile Prism, but worried about the capabilities of his/her scanner I'll add one more message. I guess Google will pick this up when people having a pretty basic scanner think about buying PP.

I sent my scan of a (non PP) color test chart to Fred and Terry saying 'would you expect the original and the scan to be so different'.

I don't yet own PP so I had not looked at the operating instructions. Led by F & T I now see that when one makes a scan of the results from one's own printer one also puts alongside it a control chart supplied by Mike. This control chart (Mike calls it the IT8 chart) gives PP the references to normalise (my word, not Mike's) the scan. If the scan is too light/dark/saturated or whatever the software can see and it can make corrections so the scan from your printer has the right start point.

I was dubious how one could calibrate a printer (RRP 600UKP for example) which needs to be pretty critical, with an out of the box cheapo (say 60UKP) scanner. Now I know why.

Shoot me down if this is not the right explanation - I'm happy to learn more.

The PP general advice on scanner settings is here btw. http://www.ddisoftware.com/prism/help/scanner.htm (http://www.ddisoftware.com/prism/help/scanner.htm)
An IT8 target in an international standard and has to made to a very high standard. The targets Mike supplies with PP are calibrated and the calibration numbers can be entered into PP.
The print from your own printer is of a special target image  unique to PP with 100's of colour patches.
A typical scan image of both targets is attached.
Terry

Can you find WALDO?
I think there are well over 9000 patches of sampled color.

It is very accurate
Fred

The official total of patches is 9,261 on the target image that you print using your printer.

The IT-8 target I believe has 228 color patches.
There are stringent guidelines for these targets, so much so, that they get a CHARGE number, or build number.
Then color corrections are tweaked into a text file  which Profile Prism accepts to match the target Charge number.
Now, the IT-8 is ready to use, and accurate.

The 9000 + color patches on the Printer target will produce a pattern that Profile Prism recognizes and which makes a Printer Profile to make your color as accurate as it can based on the color gamut of your printer.

***   Seriously, I make printer profiles for my HP Advanced Glossy. (Beautiful) But I don't have any HP profiles to compare...
On the other hand, one day Mike told me that he made a few profiles that were noticeably better than the commercial ones that ship / download with the Epson and Canon printers.

So I tried that on my Favorite paper; Epson Ultra Premium LUSTER!   
Shazam! Side by side, mine was better.
So I did my Ilford Smooth Gloss.  Again, the Profile Prism profile won.
I did my Ilford Pearl; same thing.

Not only are the results satisfying, but it's fun to learn and be able to "roll your own"

Fred

Sounds positive, Fred,

As I said above my first move will be from the individual Epson cartridges to refillable ones - probably Marrutt though Cone (US only) sounds interesting.

I have just done the maths for the last five years.  As you know most of my images never get printed - by me anyway.

I will have spent around £670 on paper. I always tell people that it is the ink that costs the money rather than the paper.
I have spent around £1,900 on Epson ink.

Had I been buying 125ml bottles I would have spent around £280 - plus about £100 for the refillable cartridges themselves.

What put me off third party ink was the thought that it might/would need different profiles. With PP it will be, as you say, Easy Peasy!

Two comments!
1) I print a lot!   I use a good quality 3rd party ink using replacement cartridges. (Not the cheapest)
It is exactly a year that I have been using this ink, and have reordered at least 5 times.
Each reorder had me wondering if I was going to get the same colors exactly?
So I made new profiles from the new ink order. Cannot see a difference between the prints from the original order and the current order.  That's GOOD!
I even compared the test prints to ones I made using the commercial profile (from Epson). So close that you are hard pressed to see any difference in color from Epson ink to the replacement.

2) When I commented that Profile Prism profiles produced a better print than the commercially downloaded profile, it occurred to me that the reason might be due to the profile I just made being absolutely tuned  for my individual printer (since it printed the target) as opposed to a commercially made profile which is for the overall printer model.

Another reason to enjoy making your custom profiles.

Fred

Funny you should make this point today. Or was it yesterday?

Some time ago I acquired (I did not buy) a box of test papers.

I recently did test prints on 5 of the 'quality' specialist sheets.

Each print had a different colour rendering!!

I went to a trade show yesterday and presented the paper supplier with the 5 prints and asked was it normal for such differences.  (I will not name here the supplier).

What print profiles did you use? A. The ones supplied by you, off the net?  A.yes  To get good prints you have to print test charts on your printer and send to us to create a custom profile. (The service is free for their papers)

How do I do that when only one sheet of each paper was supplied in the pack.  A. a blank look.

Checking their site today I see packs of two sheets each type are £12 + PP So in reality you have to buy two packs of test papers to do one test of each paper (two of the colour test chart and two for the print, and only make one mistake). Rather expensive if you want to check 5 papers.

I also checked screen brightness with the Screen suppliers and the Munki people.

Screen suppliers stand had no ideas.  But Munki people confirmed what I had already concluded.  The Munki is not much good at measuring the ambient light AND you have to select a Brightness value before the Munki does is business.  The munki measures this brightness and then you fine tune the brightness using the screen brightness control.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
My Eye One Display is similar; I never use the ambient light feature as it's a variable. I check prints with an Ott Lite. After calibration, I do switch back on auto brightness on my monitor and this seems to compensate quite well.
This normal with any decent monitor  calibration software in "advanced" mode. Mine recommends 120cd/Msq for an LCD monitor but I find 125cd/Msq gives the best match with a print. Using the number means you know where you are/were if tweaks are needed to print match.
Terry

Interesting. I never touch any of the controls on my monitor after doing a Munki run. I have always worried that they might alter the settings the Munki has chosen.

On the other hand my printing PC is in a studio where the ambient light never changes. I let the Munki measure it when making another scan but then detach the sensor so it is not tempted to keep remeasuring the (constant) ambient and simply add clutter to my work surface!

Tony

Hi Jeff
120 candles per square meter = "Luminance".
It applies to all monitors (I have an Eizo too) and, providing your calibration software allows it, is set as part of the calibration process using the monitor brightness adjustment.The sequence is;
Set all calibration target values, white point, gamma, luminance
Set contrast (leave at native value)
Set RGB gain values to get White point: 6500K - this is not essential as the corrections needed will be loaded into the Graphics card LUT - it just minimises the amount of correction.
Set luminance
Calibrate to make profile
This full sequence is in the "advanced" mode of the Eye One Display software, which is probably similar to Munki.
Terry