Print Page - Profiling for printable CDs/DVDs

Hi!

This is more an idea for a feature upgrade, rather than a question:

I need to make a profile for a printable DVD. The problem is printing a square printer target image onto a round DVD, that strangely enough even has a hole in the middle... If I scale it down to fit it somewhere on the rim, it gets far too small and color patches bleed one into another.

Just a though: is there a way (or will ;)) to add a special round-with-a-hole-in-the-middle printer target image, especially for profiling printable CDs/DVDs?

BTW, great program.

Regards,
Arsen

Hi, Fred!

It is not a problem to print the existing image somewhere on a CD/DVD - I use a utility I got with my printer. But the problem is that the existing rectangle color pattern is not suitable for printing on a CD/DVD, in order to be scanned back and used for profiling, because:

If you stretch it to fit the circle, you will be missing the patches in the middle, due to the CD hole
If you shrink it to fit somewhere in the rim, so all the color patches would be visible - they get too small.

Hence, there should be a round pattern that would print the color patches all around the rim.

Arsen

Quote

in order to be scanned back and used for profiling,

An interesting concept; profiling the actual printable CD as if it was printing paper.
I had never even thought of something like that until now.
I thought you were having trouble getting a round image to print for you.

The only thought that comes to me is perhaps, the printable CD manufacturer or distributor offers a pack of a few sheets of the material that is affixed to the CD or that is embedded in the CD for printing.
Then you could print your target on that material and profile it.

Best,
Fred

I for one would be all for having a new target for CDs/DVDs..... I've tried using the regular PP target, chopping it up to small pieces and printing on multiple CDs.. it works, but it's a very long process and wastes a TON of discs to get decent results.

It would be nice just being able to print a target directly to the CD, scan it in with the IT8 and generate a profile. Even if it's not as precise as a paper profile, just getting something in the ballpark would be a cool addition. (fewer patches for CDs maybe?)

I'm guessing that getting a good scan could prove difficult however, since the disc is round, it would have to placed in the right direction. PP might need some code to rotate the image on the CD.

To the original poster, if you really can't wait. I know colorvision's Spyder3print comes with CD profiles, but it's expensive!
Some ebay sellers offer CD/DVD profiles (search for them). I haven't tried any of those services/products myself.

I know this is an old topic, but the subject applies so I didn't want to start a new topic......

After seeing how popular Profile Prism is over at the Inkjet Printer Forum, I'm considering buying it. The goal is to match my printouts between HP Brochure Paper (glossy) and Taiyo-Yuden (now JVC) WaterShield (glossy) DVD discs using a Canon iP4500 printer.

As mentioned by the OP, the concern is being able to profile the DVD disc. Will I be able to create a good printer profile for these discs?

I have multiple projects a year and waste ~5 discs on each trying to get the colors on the disc to match the brochure paper as close as possible. But it's never quite right so I just live with it. I want to take them to the next level and get them closer while eliminating the waste hence my interest in this software.

Some CD/DVD labels like CD Stomper Matte labels are plain white with no printed areas outlining the punchouts. On ones like those, you could easily print something like a 5x7 target and let it print right over the perforations and the perforations wouldn't interfere significantly. If you have other labels that have gray print on them outlining the edge of the CD, the center punch, etc. obviously you can't print over those and there's really no way to profile that type of CD or DVD label because there isn't enough contiguous "virgin" white space available to print the target. I guess even then, you could get clever if you were desperate enough :) and take a couple sheets, cut out some fitting white areas, and piece them together carefully, attaching them contiguously to a plain sheet of paper to create enough plain white label area to print a target on it. If you don't have gaps, that might even work.

But in the end, if you are really interested in getting a profile for CD/DVD labels, I'd just find a package of labels that doesn't have template designs printed over the label areas: ones that look like a plain sheet of white paper from a distance. Then just print the target on that and profile. The CD Stomper Matte White CD Labels (SKU 72782 98102) that I bought at Staples have a plain white surface, but hopefully there are other options because honestly, those are horrible as they seem designed to impart maximum difficulty when actually applying them to the disks (very low quality perforations and no thought put into easy peeling).

Regards,
Mike

Quote from: msmart on February 20, 2011, 02:20:09 AM

Thanks Mike, but as Ray said, the discs I use are printable discs, not labels.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother fooling with those. Those print so poorly that I don't think they could be profiled even if you could print a target on them. I've never really understood why people try to print directly on discs anyway. The printable discs cost more than a regular disc plus a label, the labels are easier to make, faster to apply, and look a whole lot better.

Mike

Quote

The real problem is concerned with profiling printable cd/dvd disks, (The ones with a plain white inkjet ready surface on the cd) not profiling paper labels for sticking on the discs (although that did come up). I think you'd need a circular target (with a big hole in the middle) for that Wink .

Quote

Thanks Mike, but as Ray said, the discs I use are printable discs, not labels.

Hey guys,
I am curious about something.

My neighbors have well over 3000 DVDs in the house with movies all labeled and all in professional looking DVD cases like you buy in the store.
I print the case covers and the DVD labels for him.
I use the Let Printer Manage the color, and driver set to ICM...... for all the case covers which are 7.50 high by 10.50 long.
I make the DVD disk labels by buying good quality labels from a company called NEATO.
If I buy good quality labels, then Let Printer manage color would work fine.
I use a program called Shure thing. This is so accurate (placement) to the millimeter and can be adjusted .01 mm at a time to get it really centered....
All that is a preamble.... BTW the R1800 will print on the printable DVD blanks.

Where do I get the images from?
Where do I get round disk labels from?

I get them from 2 sites for free.
Where did they get them from?
Uploaded by many people all over the world from scans of what they bought, or some are custom designed which is another hobby people have.
The scan colors and the scan quality vary from person to person and scan to scan.
In other words, if I ask for cover and disk images for a movie, "The King's Speech", I will have probably a dozen choices sent in by a dozen different people. That is only region 1!
So I ask you, how fussy are you going to be with profiling a hard printable disk, or trying to make a round target with a hole in the middle when your source material is, at best, subject to scrutiny?

I don't mean to be picky, but ..... real life is real life!!

Fred

Quote from: Mike Chaney

Honestly, I wouldn't bother fooling with those.

Well, I've been "fooling" with them for over five years and have been extremely happy with them.

Quote from: Mike Chaney

Those print so poorly

I disagree, they produce awesome looking prints that rival any quality glossy photo paper. Have you seen them first hand or is it just an opinion? Taiyo-Yuden WaterShield white glossy DVD discs?

Quote from: Mike Chaney

I've never really understood why people try to print directly on discs anyway.

Just the opposite for me.

Quote from: Mike Chaney

The printable discs cost more than a regular disc plus a label

Yes, WaterShield discs do cost more, but I'm a videographer who shoots youth theater and sells the DVDs complete with case insert and booklet inside the case. I want a more professional look than matte labels applied to the disc. For personal use discs, I use Verbatim 95079 white printable discs.

Quote from: Mike Chaney

the labels are easier to make, faster to apply, and look a whole lot better.

I use a PhotoShop template to create the disc image - save as a jpeg file, then use Canon's CD-LabelPrint software to print the discs. Very easy and nothing to apply. I would argue that the WaterShield discs look a whole lot better than an applied label.

My trouble is that, while the print quality is excellent on the WaterShield discs, the color varies slightly from the HP Glossy Brochure Paper I use. I keep playing with the manual color settings in the Canon printer settings until I get it "close enough". In the process I waste 5 or more discs.

For argument's sake and assuming the print quality is a ton better than you think, will I be able to get a decent profile from PP given the discs physical size and shape?

Quote from: Fred A

So I ask you, how fussy are you going to be with profiling a hard printable disk,

As I mentioned, I sell the DVDs I produce to the families of the youth theater so I am very fussy. It's not very professional if the colors vary. I print the same artwork (high quality PhotoShop files - nothing downloaded) on the case insert and disc face so I want them to match as close as possible. If it were for home use as you do for your neighbors, then it wouldn't be such a big deal.

I think I would find a distributor of papers who offers free or low cost profiles. Chat them up - they often have equipment for profiling that is more flexible than scanning in a square target. It depends how much you or they wish to try, and their equipment, of course.

Using profile prism, I guess you'd have to offset the target a number of times, and print on a number of discs, then after you've scanned them all in, use photoshop to piece them all together. I can see a headache, at least, coming on. However, it is possible to manually adjust the pp profiles. It may be easier to downgrade your gloss paper profile to more closely match your cd results. It may be better to sacrifice a few discs, and generate a filter to apply to either or both the paper and cd images.

hth

Best wishes,

Ray

Well, I admit that I don't pay a lot for the printable CD's I tried: I was trying to keep costs reasonable and even then, they are much more than a label + regular CD. I don't know what you are using to print, but for me they were incredibly inefficient too. I do them in bulk of maybe 4+ at a time and found it much more efficient to print 4 labels and then apply those than having to babysit the printer one disc at a time. You are aware, aren't you, that there are some very good quality glossy labels out there? I really doubt that it's impossible to find glossy labels that compare to the printable surface of your discs.

All that aside, Ray's idea might work. Pick a paper that prints similar and with similar driver settings. Profile that and then use the PP tweaker to make changes to the profile until it matches by printing samples on the discs. Might cost you a half dozen or so discs but once you're done, you'd have a working profile.

Mike

OK, a glimmer of hope...

I would say that the CDs you tried didn't hold a candle to the WaterShields so I can see why you have your opinion. I mentioned what I print with in my first post here, a Canon iP4500. My projects are about 25 to 40 DVDs each but babysitting the printer isn't too bad. I haven't researched labels recently but I've heard that they're "bad" as the adhesive can get warmed up in the player and cause the label to shift where the disc doesn't play well or at all anymore. I don't want to start that debate here so let's just leave it where you like labels and I don't.

I use HP Brochure Paper Q1987A that I buy from Staples. I'm happy with how it prints, folds and cuts so I don't think I'll change from it. It does print similarly (sort of) but I'm trying to get to the "next level" in hopes of making the discs match it.

I have no problem sacrificing discs to create a working profile as I'm doing that now with each project. PP tweaker? Sounds like it's where you make the fine adjustments to the profile, I like it.

So I guess the bottom line is that I have a good chance to get working profiles for the paper and discs to closely match, correct?

While I'm not a customer yet, I would echo the OPs request to create a disc shaped color target and necessary changes to PP to read it.

Ray, thanks for the suggestions. I like the idea of offsetting the target a few times.

I have no plans to make a round target and I just don't see that being a good use of my time. That's a significant feature to implement when you and maybe one other person will ever use it. Let's face it, you are talking about color managing an object that, when in use, you can't even see! You glance at it for a half second to ID the disc and then put it in the drive. Are people really taking these things and hanging them as ornaments where they'll be displayed? Not trying to be a smarty pants: just being realistic and I don't think making round targets is a good business decision.

Mike

If you had the time or incentive to do so, I reckon you may succeed in distorting the target image before physically printing it - (not an ideal method, but maybe print to pdf, instead of to your canon printer, then load the image into your image editor, make it circular with the hole in the middle, then print that image to your cd). You'll possibly get colour shifts and other problems in the distortion process. Once you scan in that image, distort it in reverse to get it back to the required rectangular image before running it through the rest of the pp software. Fancy writing a script or action :o ?

There may be software 'out there' for doing the first transform because there was a sort of popular Victorian? gimmick using similar circular images, which only became understandable when you viewed them in the reflection of a circular mirror (glass bottle) stood in the centre of the image.

(If it were for an hp printer, I know of someone who would probably write the scripts in the blink of an eye ;) )

Best wishes,

Ray

edited typo to pdf

Fair enough, Mike. I too want to make a good business decision on whether or not to buy your product.

I'm not asking for a guarantee but rather if you think PP will be worth my investment given what I'm trying to do.

Quote from: Mike Chaney

That's a significant feature to implement when you and maybe one other person will ever use it.

If you do polls, maybe this could be one to gauge interest.

Ray, interesting idea. Only Mike can say it that has a remote chance of working.

There are actually a bunch of ways it could be done. The warp/unwarp is theoretically possible. You could also chop the target into say 12 chunks that would be about 1x1.8 inches each (4x3 chop of the target). Then you could print four of those on each disc for a total of three discs. Scan all three discs at once and then piece the 12 chunks together digitally to make the full target. Just make sure you don't mix up any of the chunks. :) In fact, you could do it pretty easily with Qimage, telling it to print a 4x3 poster of the target from 1x1.87 inch pages and then printing that to file: you'd get 12 files all chunked up for you. Then just print those 4 at a time on the discs and piece them together from the scans.

Mike

Hello,

I'm new here, located in Germany. I'm using PP for about 2 years, now with an Epson R285, fotonic XG ink, and a Canon 8800F Scanner

The results are pretty good and I'd never like to do printing without ProfilePrism, thanks Mike for this great software.

My little business is to do recordings of live concerts, e. g. symphonic orchestras, wind bands, choirs or solo singers with piano etc. These recordings are usually delivered as Compact Discs. The regular issue there is from 30 to about 100 items per production. The covers, inlays or booklets are printing very well especially when photos are used to get a nice optical "opening." And I agree, when in use, the disks are not visible. But when you have a nice Cover and opening the bag you look to a white disk with some simple text on it or to a background picture with strange colours, this first impression is not really professional.

I'd like very much to improve this printing by having the chance to do own profiling for these printable CDs. The only lack is a suitable target and the corresponding profiling function in Prism.

So please, Mike, think about this. Surely I'm willing to pay for this extra functionality

Thanks in advance
Allmoeh

Continuing the conversation....

I've been a customer for a while now and tried to chunk up a DVD (again, a while back) but didn't have much success. It's most likely because I didn't have access to a good scanner.

Now that I've recently retired my Canon iP4500 and just bought a Canon MX922 and have also recently switched from JVC Watershield DVDs to FalconMedia SmartGuard Glossy DVDs, I'm back to see if anything has changed with regard to providing a target for DVDs.

With more printers having the capability to print on CD/DVDs, is there any chance you would reconsider your position of not making a round target? It's been a few years now that Canon has been able to provide direct to CD/DVD printers in the US similar to what Epson has been doing for years.

As the MX922 has a scanner and probably better software than what I had before, I'll have to give your suggestion a try: ...print a 4x3 poster of the target from 1x1.87 inch pages and then printing that to file: you'd get 12 files all chunked up for you. Then just print those 4 at a time on the discs and piece them together from the scans.

At any rate, I'm bringing this topic to the top for consideration. Thanks.

Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

Mike's Software => Profile Prism => Topic started by: jonnieZG on October 21, 2009, 08:44:24 AM