Mike Chaney's Tech Corner
May 19, 2024, 02:00:24 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Qimage registration expired? New lifetime licenses are only $59.99!
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  

Professional Photo Printing Software for Windows
Print with
Qimage and see what you've been missing!
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: White borders with an Absolute Colorimetric rendering intent  (Read 10579 times)
skyer
Newbie
*
Posts: 6


View Profile
« on: May 05, 2023, 01:36:37 PM »

When one prints with an Absolute Colorimetric rendering intent the whites on prints usually have a color cast. It's understandable. However, when one wants to print a photo with borders why do they get the same color cast? Is it possible to make the borders transparent without any ink on prints? If it's not possible to do in the current version I wish it will be possible in the future.
Logged
admin
Administrator
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 4134



View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2023, 02:59:45 PM »

In a way you have answered your own question: because you cannot pick "transparent" as a border color, you are selecting white (or accepting the default white) and when using absolute colorimetric intent, white is clearly defined and is almost never the color of the paper.  This is a bit of an odd request because there is almost never a call to print photos in absolute colorimetric intent and even less of a reason to do that and then have a border that is an unspecified (paper) color that doesn't match anything in the print.  But you CAN so what you are asking...

Your request can be done with photo mats since those can be transparent:

  • Add your print to the live view at the size of your choosing and then click on the print on the live view to select it
  • Now right click on that print and select "Photo Mats (uneven borders)" and then "Add Photo Mat"
  • Enter the border sizes on all 4 sides: they can be equal or unequal (your choice)
  • Click "Shrink" or "Grow" depending on whether you want the borders to be included in the current size or you want to "grow" the print size by the border amount
  • Click "OK" (note, the color of the mat doesn't matter because we delete it in the next step anyway)
  • On the live view again, click on the mat/border you just added to select the mat itself (important)
  • With the mat selected, look on the bottom of the "Prints" tab where you see "Inner" border
  • Highlight the value in "Inner" border and change it to 0 (zero)

You now have a transparent border around your print: it's basically a "spacing" and nothing prints there.  See attached for clarification.

Regards,
Mike
Logged
skyer
Newbie
*
Posts: 6


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2023, 07:38:58 PM »

Thank you very much! This method looks not as straightforward as the ordinary Borders but it's better than nothing.

As for the Absolute Intent, in my opinion this is one of the most important things about printing that I've discovered! In the Relevant Intent my images from Canon Pro-100 had always been a bit too dark and dull. In the Absolute Intent they look just geourgeous, almost like on my monitor (it is calibrated of course). Yes, the whites sometimes look not very neutral but one just need to find/create the right icc profile.
Some time ago I also found out that Canon also implies that the Absolute Intent is the best one:

"Absolute RI Algorithm... When used with basic 4-colour printers, this mode has a tendency to produce ‘choppy’ gradations that results in visible banding. However, with 11-ink printers such as the Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-500, the banding effect may not surface due to the printer’s extremely large colour gamut. Depending on the image and printer, photographers may find that the Absolute RI algorithm produces more colour accurate photos.
...
In summary, any photographer looking at producing fine art prints should understand their colour reproduction needs. If colour accuracy is important, it pays to invest in a printer with a very large colour gamut like the Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-500 and print in Absolute rendering mode. If colour accuracy is not the paramount concern, the Perceptual mode, when coupled with a competent photo printer, will produce visually satisfying results". https://snapshot.canon-asia.com/article/eng/introduction-to-fine-art-printing-part-3-colour-profiles-and-rendering-intents
Logged
admin
Administrator
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 4134



View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2023, 09:20:52 PM »

Some time ago I also found out that Canon also implies that the Absolute Intent is the best one:

"Absolute RI Algorithm... When used with basic 4-colour printers, this mode has a tendency to produce ‘choppy’ gradations that results in visible banding. However, with 11-ink printers such as the Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-500, the banding effect may not surface due to the printer’s extremely large colour gamut. Depending on the image and printer, photographers may find that the Absolute RI algorithm produces more colour accurate photos.
...
In summary, any photographer looking at producing fine art prints should understand their colour reproduction needs. If colour accuracy is important, it pays to invest in a printer with a very large colour gamut like the Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-500 and print in Absolute rendering mode. If colour accuracy is not the paramount concern, the Perceptual mode, when coupled with a competent photo printer, will produce visually satisfying results". https://snapshot.canon-asia.com/article/eng/introduction-to-fine-art-printing-part-3-colour-profiles-and-rendering-intents

This is unfortunately one of those things where you will find that opinions are a dime-a-dozen.  Your reference is from Canon.  Here's one from Epson:

"Absolute Colorimetric:
This setting renders an image by maintaining an absolute color range so that there is a 1-to-1 ratio of absolute lab coordinates. This setting is not recommended when printing photo data and normal conversions."
https://files.support.epson.com/htmldocs/pro78_/pro78_rf/softw_4.htm

Now my take...  Absolute is the same as relative except that relative adapts all colors to the white point of the paper.  Absolute basically alters the color of the paper (by putting some ink on it) so that the paper essentially becomes the same "white" as the white point of the image (usually D50).  In doing so, all other colors are shifted as well to match the new "paper color".  So the odd part that I was referring to is printing with absolute and then not caring about the border color or that the border color is undefined and won't match anything in the image.  Since handling of the white point is the only difference, printing in absolute colorimetric is not usually a fix for "dark and dull".  If your images look dull and dark in relative colorimetric, you may have other issues that are just masked by using absolute.

Absolute is the most useful when doing proofing under controlled lighting where you are trying to reproduce the output of one device on a different device.  Canon (in your quote) hinted to one of the problems with absolute colorimetric intent.  Because all colors are being shifted to simulate a white point that is different than the white of your paper, some of the printer's gamut is "used" to simulate that shift which necessarily reduces the usable color gamut of the printer/inks you are using.  The other issue with absolute is that you can produce an "absolute" match but if you aren't viewing the results under perfectly controlled and neutral lighting, it still isn't going to be "accurate".

Regards,
Mike
Logged
skyer
Newbie
*
Posts: 6


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2023, 02:50:21 PM »

I admit that what you wrote is a consensus among those who print. I had also used Relative RI in the past. However, somehow I tried to test the Absolute Colorimetric RI and I liked it much more! Actually, one can make sure that it is a better RI by turning on the Proof Colors option in Photoshop. It will be obvious that the Relative RI look worse in comparison.
The only drawback of usin AC RI that I see is that the whites sometimes become too white but it's very easy to correct. The changing of WB of the whites is so minor that it usually can't be seen at all.
Logged
admin
Administrator
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 4134



View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2023, 03:33:01 PM »

The only drawback of usin AC RI that I see is that the whites sometimes become too white but it's very easy to correct. The changing of WB of the whites is so minor that it usually can't be seen at all.

I've tried it on several papers with different profiles.  I wouldn't use it just because of that white crush.  AC basically makes everything from about 240,240,240 to 255,255,255 white.  You're losing a decent amount of range there.  Honestly, I've never seen much of a difference other than AC crushing whites.  As I said, if you are using AC to correct issues where things look dull or dark, you're using the wrong Bandaid.

Mike
Logged
skyer
Newbie
*
Posts: 6


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2023, 05:54:45 AM »

You're right about the white crush. However, to me personally, it's easier to fix than to stand the overall print dullness. Anyway, my experience is not like yours. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but looking at my prints I don't mind it at all.

Returning to my main question with that borders. Yesterday I tried to follow your advice with mats but I got weired results. I added three images on the page: first - without any mats, second - with ordinary mats, third - with the same mats but zeroed borders. Then added the cut marks (by the way, is it possible to apply the cut marks only to specific images on the page, not to all of them?).  On my print I got the first two images with strange cutting marks and the the third image had no cutting marks around the borders at all.
Logged
admin
Administrator
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 4134



View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2023, 11:37:26 AM »

Don't use any of the "Template" placement methods with borders or mats.  The templates will conform to the size of the prints but the borders will interfere.  Just use IntelliSpace or IntelliCenter.

Mike
Logged
skyer
Newbie
*
Posts: 6


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2023, 09:20:09 PM »

Here is the print I got with the IntelliCenter. The first two images are OK but the one with the zeroed borders doesn't have the cut marks. Why is that? Actually, the only reason why I need the transparent borders is because I need the cut marks so I could easily cut my photos with white mats.
Logged
admin
Administrator
Forum Superhero
*****
Posts: 4134



View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2023, 12:55:07 AM »

I'm guessing that if you use cut marks that lie on the edge of the transparent mat (like solid line, corner marks, etc.), the mat itself is making the cut marks transparent too.  Try using cut marks that extend outward away from the print: like crop marks or guide lines.

Mike
Logged
skyer
Newbie
*
Posts: 6


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2023, 01:03:11 PM »

Now everything's fine. Thank you, Mike!
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Security updates 2022 by ddisoftware, Inc.