JL
Newbie
Posts: 34
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« on: June 30, 2012, 07:52:50 AM » |
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Ok, so being new to QImage might be an issue. I've read through QImage's help topics, did the color calibration on my monitor (but in this case, might not be a factor), and believe I had set up my print settings on QImage correctly.
I've tried printing 3 images using QImage on Canson's PhotoSatin 270g on my Canon's ipf6300. The ICC profile was downloaded from Canson's website and I've set the printer ICC in the job properties to the correct ICC profile, rendering intent as Perceptual. My media type settings are according to the manufacturer's requirements as well. I've also set the Color Mode to 'No Color Correction'. And I went ahead and printed the 3 images. I realized the images had a slightly bluish/purplish (very obvious with images especially where skin tones are present). I thought it might be the paper.
So I opened Photoshop CS5, set it to the same ICC profile settings and media type, rendering intent Perceptual, used the exact same 3 images, and I used Canon's ipf Print Plug In to do a test print for comparison. I compared the 2 prints of the 3 images side by side, and it came out with a warmer tone (which seems more like the correct tone when compared to my calibrated screen).
Is there a setting on QImage that I should know about that might be causing this issue?
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Terry-M
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2012, 08:07:31 AM » |
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Hi, There is no reason why they should be different unless some setting somewhere is different, you may find this article by Mike helpful: - http://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/may-2011-printing-the-same-colors-in-qimage-ultimate-and-photoshop/One other point, have your images got an embedded profile, Adobe RGB or whatever? If it's just tagged by PhotoShop say, and not embedded, QU will not recognise the tag. You can check what QU is "seeing" by hovering the mouse over a thumb and reading the data a the bottom of the screen in the "exif bar"; it's the last item. You can override the profile in the image editor to correct it - or re-save in your editor with the profile embedded. Terry |
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Fred A
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2012, 09:27:27 AM » |
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What Terry says above is correct, but to carry a step further, if Qimage doesn't see an embedded profile, there still should be no problem because it will default to RGB color space.
When anyone insists that the prints are different when printed from Photo Shop and when printed from Qimage, we KNOW there's a setting that has been missed.
This has happened so often that Mike Chaney had to write a treatise on the topic.
I don't know about the latest Photo Shop, but the problem in many cases was traced to the fact that Qimage remembers the driver settings, and Photo Shop resets to a default and must be told again to use Let Software manage color and turn off the driver control.
This can fool you in both instances quite easily.
Start by rechecking the Driver settings again and again before each print.
Here's the bottom of Mike's article, a summation.
Fred
Epilogue
When referring to the information in this article, keep one basic thing in mind: Qimage Ultimate and PhotoShop will produce visually identical color as long as I do two things: (1) duplicate all settings in the printer driver exactly in both programs and (2) duplicate the color management options inside both programs. If you have a printer ICC profile for the printer, paper, and ink you are using, you'll want to choose the printer profile in Qimage Ultimate and PhotoShop and let it do the work, while turning color management OFF in the driver! Conversely, if you do not have an ICC profile, you'll want to let the printer/driver manage color by selecting the "Let printer/driver manage color" (Qimage Ultimate) or "Printer Manages Colors" (PhotoShop), while turning color management (ICM or "Host ICM") ON in the driver. Finally, if you are trying to get a (printed color) match between PhotoShop and Qimage and you are having trouble, be sure to refer to the potential potholes listed above.
Mike Chaney, author, Qimage, Profile Prism, FlashPipe, TT Dyno
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JL
Newbie
Posts: 34
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2012, 10:47:34 AM » |
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Fred, Terry, thanks for the info. I've gone through Mike's posting and the only thing I haven't tried is the BPC test.
On the setting side, I've checked and everything is in order (to what I believe them to be). I was wondering if either of you (or anyone else) uses the Canon's ipf Print Plug-In, because some settings in there seems to be left out from what has to be set in QU. I am dead set on getting this sorted out because QU will streamline my workflow and make it much easier for me, only if I could overcome this.
The problem right now (although I am sure that the setting somewhere are probably not similar, hence the colour differ), is not the colour difference in itself. So let me just put that aside for a moment.
I've calibrated my monitor, and I think the colour should be accurate as my monitor would allow it to be (granted it's just a regular LED monitor). Now, when I open the image and print using Photoshop, I can see that the colors are almost similar (print vs monitor/soft proof). However when I soft proof an image in QImage, it looks similar to what I see it to be in Photoshop (soft proof viewing) which is great, colours and all. But when I print using QU, the colours that appear in QU soft proof and my prints do not match (that is, the bluish hue would be visible). The images I mentioned are opened and print as is, unedited, untouched.
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« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 11:05:45 AM by JL »
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Fred A
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2012, 11:29:43 AM » |
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On the setting side, I've checked and everything is in order (to what I believe them to be). I was wondering if either of you (or anyone else) uses the Canon's ipf Print Plug-In, because some settings in there seems to be left out from what has to be set in QU. I am dead set on getting this sorted out because QU will streamline my workflow and make it much easier for me, only if I could overcome this. Hi JL, Interesting that you mention the Plug In. I was just sitting here trying to investigate. You might have found the lump in the oatmeal! I found 3 videos and one article by UWE Steinmueller, who authors Outback Photo, a well respected web site. Not one of them mentions or even attempts to set the No Color Adjustment, or Color Management OFF. Unless, somehow it is automatically set when a printer profile is selected, but I think not, because UWE mentions the color controls and advises that to be untouched. ... and someone would mention that it was set for you. So, unless you have something in your printer book, or some pdf file that came with the PLUG-IN with instructions that explains things, how about printing from Qimage and Photoshop each using the accepted print driver that came with the printer? I've calibrated my monitor, and I think the colour should be accurate as my monitor would allow it to be (granted it's just a regular LED monitor). Now, when I open the image and print using Photoshop, I can see that the colors are almost similar (print vs monitor/soft proof). However when I soft proof an image in QImage, it looks similar to what I see it to be in Photoshop (soft proof viewing) which is great, colours and all. But when I print using QU, the colours that appear in QU soft proof and my prints do not match (that is, the bluish hue would be visible). The images I mentioned are opened and print as is, not editing, untouched.
This, once again, is very interesting. The softproof compares the printer profiled image to the monitor profiled image.... and they look "RIGHT". But the print looks blue... from Qimage. This seems to suggest a driver setting is altering the print color.... May I ask what color space Qimage sees for the images? All I am asking is for you to hover your cursor over one of the thumbnails, and read the bottom of the screen below the thumbs and let us know. What camera and what format of image (RAW, JPG)? Sometimes, cameras or downloading software for memory cards will embed strange profiles in the images and Qimage will accept them, but PS might be set to override and use its default. See screen snap here. Both show a colorspace. The one with the asterisks is embedded, and the other is just tagged or applied. What does yours say? Here are the videos I looked at plus the article. Maybe I missed something. You have the actual plug in screen so you can see better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhl9oowO-Bshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1dNwf9shcEhttp://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi043/essay.htmlIf Photo Shop (using the standard driver, not the plug in) and Qimage prints do not agree, then I will beg you to send me or Terry an image. Fred |
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JL
Newbie
Posts: 34
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2012, 01:07:33 PM » |
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Fred,
Yup, the Canon's Printer Plug-In is a dream to use. Everywhere I've read, I've only heard good things about it.
So, unless you have something in your printer book, or some pdf file that came with the PLUG-IN with instructions that explains things, how about printing from QU and Photoshop each using the accepted print driver that came with the printer? Ok, I used the regular printer driver (NOT Canon's Print Plug-In) and all the settings that were used in QU, I set them all the same in Photoshop (No Color Management, etc), did a print, and it came out perfect (no bluish/purplish hue).
Ok, here are the details you were asking before.
May I ask what color space Qimage sees for the images? All I am asking is for you to hover your cursor over one of the thumbnails, and read the bottom of the screen below the thumbs and let us know. - IPTC, ICC: *sRGB IEC61966-2.1*
What camera and what format of image (RAW, JPG)? It's shot using a Canon SLR, and it's in jpeg format.
Sometimes, cameras or downloading software for memory cards will embed strange profiles in the images and Qimage will accept them, but PS might be set to override and use its default. The images were sent to me by my clients to print, I believe they've already edited in Photoshop with the color space embedded.
Does it look like an issue with the driver? or a settings issue in my QU (I believe I followed everything necessary to output the correct color print). I can send over the image if necessary. Let me know if you need that.
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Fred A
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2012, 01:23:48 PM » |
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So, unless you have something in your printer book, or some pdf file that came with the PLUG-IN with instructions that explains things, how about printing from QU and Photoshop each using the accepted print driver that came with the printer? Ok, I used the regular printer driver (NOT Canon's Print Plug-In) and all the settings that were used in QU, I set them all the same in Photoshop (No Color Management, etc), did a print, and it came out perfect (no bluish/purplish hue). Did you make a print from Qimage through the normal print driver. I cannot read it right from the above statement. I gather the PS print using the regular driver was fine. If you still have a blue print from Qimage, please send the image. My email will usually accept 20 megs. If this is larger, let me know, and we will use an alternative. Email: wathree.ssz@verizon.netI will pass it on to Terry. He is out having lunch and "tea". Should be back soon. Thanks for all the cooperation. Fred |
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JL
Newbie
Posts: 34
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2012, 01:32:32 PM » |
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Hi Fred,
Yup, sorry for not mentioning it clearly. I did the print using the normal print driver on both QU and Photoshop. I've attached an image of both printouts. Sorry I had to apply a 'blur' on the face, this image is of my client's son, and might not like it if it's posted up in public.
I'll email the image over shortly. *edited* email sent!
Incidentally, could this be a bid depth issue? In Photoshop, when I create a new workspace canvas, the color mode is set to RGB color at 16bit (the color profile however is set at sRGB IEC61966-2.1).
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« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 01:42:59 PM by JL »
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admin
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2012, 01:44:18 PM » |
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If you printed with the regular Windows driver in both QU and PS and you are 100% certain all of the driver settings were identical in both and you are certain you were using the same profile and same rendering intent, then the only thing that can cause a mismatch is a bad/corrupted profile. To rule out bad settings in QU, you might want to click "Help", "Reset printer settings" in QU and then go back in and set up the driver settings manually from scratch (do not load any previously saved settings as they may be corrupted). If that doesn't fix the problem, email me the image and the ICC profile in a ZIP and I can tell you right away if the profile is corrupted. I've seen more than one bad profile that originated on the actual manufacturer's website! Sometimes when you get a bad profile, PS will try to "prune" it or even ignore it which can look better than using the bad profile. QU gives you exactly what the profile dictates, even if it has strange data/curves.
Mike
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JL
Newbie
Posts: 34
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2012, 02:14:58 PM » |
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If you printed with the regular Windows driver in both QU and PS and you are 100% certain all of the driver settings were identical in both and you are certain you were using the same profile and same rendering intent, then the only thing that can cause a mismatch is a bad/corrupted profile. To rule out bad settings in QU, you might want to click "Help", "Reset printer settings" in QU and then go back in and set up the driver settings manually from scratch (do not load any previously saved settings as they may be corrupted). If that doesn't fix the problem, email me the image and the ICC profile in a ZIP and I can tell you right away if the profile is corrupted. I've seen more than one bad profile that originated on the actual manufacturer's website! Sometimes when you get a bad profile, PS will try to "prune" it or even ignore it which can look better than using the bad profile. QU gives you exactly what the profile dictates, even if it has strange data/curves.
Mike
Mike, you were absolutely right! I've 'Reset the Printer Settings' and the prints came out EXACTLY the same, with the correct color! Thanks a bunch! I was worried for a while, not being able to incorporate QU in my workflow. Fred, Terry, thanks for the help guys! I didn't expect an ICC profile could get corrupted (within a program??) |
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admin
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2012, 03:07:23 PM » |
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Mike, you were absolutely right! I've 'Reset the Printer Settings' and the prints came out EXACTLY the same, with the correct color! Thanks a bunch! I was worried for a while, not being able to incorporate QU in my workflow. Fred, Terry, thanks for the help guys! I didn't expect an ICC profile could get corrupted (within a program??)
Whew. Glad that's worked out! If resetting the printer settings fixed it, there were some bad (or even corrupted) settings in the driver settings that were remembered by QU. Resetting the printer settings made the printer driver go back to all defaults (a good starting point). So that actually had nothing to do with the ICC profile itself as it's a "driver settings" reset. The ICC profile is probably fine if the driver reset took care of it. Mike |
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JL
Newbie
Posts: 34
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2012, 03:15:38 PM » |
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Mike, you were absolutely right! I've 'Reset the Printer Settings' and the prints came out EXACTLY the same, with the correct color! Thanks a bunch! I was worried for a while, not being able to incorporate QU in my workflow. Fred, Terry, thanks for the help guys! I didn't expect an ICC profile could get corrupted (within a program??)
Whew. Glad that's worked out! If resetting the printer settings fixed it, there were some bad (or even corrupted) settings in the driver settings that were remembered by QU. Resetting the printer settings made the printer driver go back to all defaults (a good starting point). So that actually had nothing to do with the ICC profile itself as it's a "driver settings" reset. The ICC profile is probably fine if the driver reset took care of it. Mike Thanks Mike, it could've been a 'finger itch' on my part while messing around with the settings, being new, I tried playing around with QU a lot. Love the program, it's gonna be my default printing software from here on. Also on another note, I realized under Job Properties, there is an option of 'Fusion' under Interpolation. Searching the help files, I did not find an explanation for 'Fusion' (although the name itself might seem obvious), when would it be best to use 'Fusion'? |
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Fred A
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2012, 03:43:21 PM » |
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Also on another note, I realized under Job Properties, there is an option of 'Fusion' under Interpolation. Searching the help files, I did not find an explanation for 'Fusion' (although the name itself might seem obvious), when would it be best to use 'Fusion'?
Mike is out for a while, so I'll take the liberty of replying for him. Fusion is the latest and greatest interpolator built in. I use it exclusively. Fred |
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JL
Newbie
Posts: 34
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« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 02:16:32 AM » |
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Thanks guys, looks like it's gonna be left on all the time. Fusion it is!
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