Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

My workflow is to output a ProPhotoRGB Tiff from LR to QImage, and print on my Canon Pro 1000 using the paper manufacturer's ICC profile. Recently I've had some prints come out with a bad color cast that makes people's skin looking like they're suffering from serious sunburn, when in reality their skin is light brown.

My expensive Dell monitor is calibrated and profiled using an i1Display Pro so I'm confident there is nothing wrong with the image I'm seeing on screen.

I've noticed this problem only when printing color prints to Canon SG-201 Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss paper, which has been my go to paper recently. Black and white prints are great. Sadly I printed to 4 sheets of 22 inch paper before I realized what was going on. All the prints exhibit the color cast. Prints I'd printed earlier in the year to the same paper had been fine. QImage version is 2018.112.

From here on in, this is above my pay scale: I wondered if it was a QImage bug or a mistake I'd made, so I printed a small portion of one image straight from LR in the margin of one of the failed prints, and printed correctly (i.e. no cast). Then I printed another in-the-margin small portion using QImage, and lo and behold, it came out right too. No cast!  Now I don't know what is going on. If I print another big print, will I waste more paper and find its reverted to the same problem as before? And just to be clear, yes I have set LR / QImage to manage the profile, not the printer  ;)

One variable in all this is that before doing the small portion in the margin test print, I needed to change several ink tanks, including the red and the pink. However I'm not sure what difference if any that could make considering how much ink the Pro 1000 keeps in its lines.

What do you suggest is my next step? I hate wasting the 22 inch paper. It's rather pricey, especially considering I'm printing for personal use.

Thanks for reading.

Hi Damon,
Re.
This problem is a regular on the forum, prints suddenly showing a colour cast. The first thing to do, especially after changing cartridges, is to print a nozzle check. Maybe you've done this?
Please confirm whether you have printed with this paper, profile etc.before in QU?
Terry

Hi Damon,
I have the Pro 100 and that paper is also my "go to" paper and after a year and some of printing a lot, no problems.
Let me ask a few questions.
In the attached screen snaps, can you precisely corroborate that your settings are the same as mine?
a) The same profile showing in 142.  
b) Quality settings in 143
c) Most important, the Matching set to NONE.

That being said and done, it smells like the colorspace Prophoto is set to be over ridden in LR.
Resave your tiff in a proper color space like Adobe RGB or use the Qimage Convert and resave your tif and allow the conversion to RGB in a new Tif.
Bet that fixes it.

If all that passes the vetting test, please try a nozzle clean and recheck.

A simple way to test would be to hover your mouse of the thumbnail and read the hotbar at the bttom. What is the colorspace of the image?

Not exactly. The profile is named differently. See screenshot.


Yes these are the same.


Are you suggesting that QImage does not always work properly with ProPhotoRGB images? I've always produced ProPhotoRGB TIFFs for print, because of its larger gamut.  I've confirmed all the files that printed incorrectly are all ProPhotoRGB with their profiles embedded and detected by QImage. Printing to this paper using the same workflow worked correctly earlier in the year. Something has changed somewhere in software stack, or in the printer itself. Didn't run the nozzle check yet. Will try it.

Not suggesting that at all. Just have seen images flatten out with faded color when that color space is used. It is a very wide gamut, so much so, that it exceeds the monitor by miles, the printer by miles, and most of all that paper by miles. So really little to gain by using it.

Let's see what you get from a nozzle clean.  As Terry pointed out, all things set the same, LR and PS and QU will all produce the same color.
If there is a difference between prints, there's a setting (software or driver) that is different.
There was a possibility that colorspace could be different. ,,, and of course, nozzle clogs.   The nozzle clogs bothered me due to your description of the color cast only on SG 201 Semi gloss paper, and the rest of the description:
 'From here on in, this is above my pay scale: I wondered if it was a QImage bug or a mistake I'd made, so I printed a small portion of one image straight from LR in the margin of one of the failed prints, and printed correctly (i.e. no cast)."
Just trying to touch all the bases.
Fred
 

Thank you for your suggestions. Nozzle check is good. I have ordered a set of the SG-201 paper, but much smaller in dimension than the 22 inch type I currently have, so I can make some test prints without feeling like I'm burning cash  ;D

Hate to be picky picky, and you are burning cash...... but can you do a real nozzle clean. Seems like above, it was a check.
Probably is OK, but burn a few cents more and make sure.
One other item. What is your driver version?   Mine is 2.97.82. My reason is that there have been reports that the latest W 10 update messed up certain printer drivers. A few HPs and the Pro 1000. The XPS driver for pro 1000 got messed up by no longer being recognized if paper size was larger than A3.
The W 10 liaison said it will be fixed next month.
The last thought I have is asking you to  try a print (Make 4 x 6 or 5 x 7 on one sheet and run it through twice) using the profile for the Luster paper. Just on the chance the profile went bad.
How else can you explain the cast issue only on Semi Gloss paper..... unless of course, the box of paper was stored in an extreme environment.

I am out of ideas Damon.
Happy Holidays.
Fred

The printer driver I had was the same as yours. Given your question, I checked the Canon website and there is not only a new driver released, but also updated media profiles. I have updated the driver (now version 2.98.2.84) and the Media Configuration Tool, which then updated the media configurations in the printer itself. It will be a week or so before I make any test prints because I'm waiting for the small size SG-201 paper I ordered to arrive. Now with the latest driver and media configuration, perhaps if there was a bug it has been fixed. I've stored the paper in its box so nothing unusual there.  I'll wait and see until the paper arrives. Thanks again for your help.

I've now retested Qimage vs LR on letter size Canon SG-201 Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss. LR prints the color image without a cast, i.e. the print is as expected. Using the exact same print settings, Qimage prints the image with an red / pink tint, which is especially visible in the skin tones, ruining the print. Nothing has changed since updating the drivers and media configuration.

Black and white images seem to be unaffected (I enable the black and white printing setting in the driver config when printing B&W).

Given LR prints a fine looking image, I conclude the problem is unlikely in the printer hardware itself. Perhaps there is a bug in Qimage, or the Win 10 + Qimage combination?

Damon,
As Terry said in his first reply to this issue, we have roasted this chestnut many times before. Starting as far back as 1999.
PS/LR will produce the exact same color prints as Qimage as long as the settings are the same.
If you are getting a cast to prints from Qimage and the LR/PS are neutral, there is a setting that is different.
Qimage remembers the settings from the last time you printed on semi gloss.
Any driver or profile setting that was not correct will be remembered.
Start "cold turkey" Don't load any previously saved printer setup.
COLOR MATCHING set to NONE
QUALITY SET TO HIGHEST (which is a 2)
CORRECT PAPER SELECTED
CORRECT PROFILE SET IN QIMAGE
 (INCLUDING INTENT AND BLACK POINT )
Make a test print

There is one more test I would make.
Take you a minute.
I will type it in a follow up as I cannot put more than 4 screen snaps on here.

Change the profile to Let Printer Manage color.
Change driver setting from NONE to ICM
The rest is the same.
Print

Fred

Here is the "latest" technical article that Mike wrote on the subject, read, learn and inwardly digest - yum!

http://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/may-2011-printing-the-same-colors-in-qimage-ultimate-and-photoshop (http://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/may-2011-printing-the-same-colors-in-qimage-ultimate-and-photoshop)

Terry

I have checked several times that the printer settings are correct. That's the first thing I checked -- and rechecked, multiple times. I understand the importance and meanings of each of those settings.

Changing the print quality setting from standard to highest is a curious suggestion. It makes no difference to the problem I'm facing (I've tried both). Why would it affect a problem with a serious color cast?

From the link to the 2011 post, the only step I did not do is "Potential Pothole #4". Those instructions are now dated. There is no "Printer Setup" in the "File" menu. In any case, that seems to indicate that Qimage settings can become silently malformed when something external to it changes, like a driver. And somehow, LR is unaffected. To be honest that does not engender a feeling of confidence in the reliability of the program. Why does Qimage not proactively warn the user that they should set up the printer again from scratch when something external to the application changes, like an updated driver? Speaking as a programmer here for a moment, it's hard to imagine why Qimage could not track driver versions. And in the case of my particular problem, unless Canon is silently updating their drivers (which I doubt), the print cast problem came up before I manually updated the printer driver. So if a change external to Qimage has messed up Qimage settings, it's not the driver.

It is a match to the profile and the paper.


You must be joking or  .. with the thousands of printer brands and models out there you expect any software to check for new drivers for your model?  Let me know when Photo Shop does that.
Sorry, I did the best I can to help.
Did you make that test print I asked for useing Let Printer Manage color and the driver set to ICM?

Fred

What I'm suggesting is that Qimage alert the user when the printer driver that is installed on the system has been updated since Qimage was last run. Do a version check at start up, and if the version changed alert the user to re-setup their save print templates. To me that seems a better solution than expecting the user to have seen a bullet point on a discussion forum posting from 2011.

I just did another (and my final) test print. First Qimage, then LR. The Qimage print came out identical to the LR print. The only thing I changed was reselecting the Pro 1000 from the Printer/Media panel in Qimage and check that everything was set correctly. Whereas yesterday, with the exact same settings, the Qimage output was bad.

This inconsistent output recalls the first post in which I reported this problem: (1) Qimage print, bad output. (2) LR print, correct output. (3) Qimage print, correct output. All with the same settings.

I'm not planning on making any more prints with Qimage, given the inconsistent nature of the output. By coincidence my subscription ran out a week or two ago. I'm not planning on renewing it.

You reselected the printer from the list in Qimage and that fixed it? That tells me one was the XPS Driver and the other was plain 1000.
Good Luck

Your conclusion is that this problem is caused by user error, i.e. me choosing the incorrect settings in the configuration.

As I pointed out in my initial post, I had no problems printing with Qimage until recently. 

I have also pointed out that even with the exact same print settings, switching between Lightroom and Qimage, only Qimage has produced incorrect results. I have also pointed out that it does this inconsistently, i.e. not every time. But it surely does it, on multiple prints at multiple sizes across different driver versions and media configurations.

Does this level of diagnosis sound like someone who cannot tell the difference between selecting an XPS and non-XPS driver?

Qimage already does that: has for years.  Whenever it recalls settings, it compares the version number in the saved settings to the version number of the driver.  If they don't match, you get the attached warning.

The problem is, most manufacturers don't bother (or forget) to update the dmDriverVersion element in the DevMode area of the driver, so even when the driver is updated, it carries the same Windows-reported version number as the previous driver.

Nothing I can do about that, other than do what other software does: don't even allow the capability to save/restore driver settings!  If you don't offer the feature, you can't have a problem with it.

Edit: I should also mention that I've identified some significant bugs in the last three Windows 10 updates related to printer driver operation.  The one that I reported to MS was for a Pro-2000 driver but I know it affects other drivers as well.  It is not limited to Qimage (not even Word prints properly) as the problem is at the OS level.  But it's easier to notice in Qimage because Qimage comminucates with the driver in more detail than many programs.  Last I heard back from MS, they were aware of the problem and said their target for fixing it was by the end of January.

Mike

Hi Guys,

New user with the Canon Pro 1000.  I am getting the pink alien skin problem with Qimage.  The issue seems to be random.  Out of twenty tries, including for Canon and Ilford papers (using the correct paper manufacturer profiles), only one print did not have the problem.  The color was off on that print anyway. No problems printing via PS, ImagePrint 10, or via the Canon Print Studio Pro plug-in (including using the same profiles).

The image looks fine in qimage itself.  Fortunately, Qimage lets me preview, so I see the problem before it actually prints...I learned that after the first problem print.   I am trying to use the XPS driver (which I select for 16-bit printing path).  However, the failure has occurred with the regular driver as well.  I have tried it all, including triple checking the settings, rebooting my PC, and changing the rendering intent.    Any ideas?


Canon Pro Platinum, Canon Semi-Gloss, Canon Pro Luster, and Ilford Smooth Gloss papers
16-bit PSD file; ProphotoRGB


Win10 PC ; AMD Processor; ATI workstation graphics card; Photoshop CC
Printer Driver 1.03; XPS Driver 5.98; Firmware 2.60



Windows 10 Configuration below:
OS Name   Microsoft Windows 10 Pro
Version   10.0.16299 Build 16299
Other OS Description    Not Available
OS Manufacturer   Microsoft Corporation
System Name   xxxxxxxxxxx
System Manufacturer   System manufacturer
System Model   System Product Name
System Type   x64-based PC
System SKU   SKU
Processor   AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Eight-Core Processor, 3693 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date   American Megatrends Inc. 1701, 9/22/2017
SMBIOS Version   3.0
Embedded Controller Version   255.255
BIOS Mode   UEFI
BaseBoard Manufacturer   ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC.
BaseBoard Model   Not Available
BaseBoard Name   Base Board
Platform Role   Desktop
Secure Boot State   Off
PCR7 Configuration   Binding Not Possible
Windows Directory   C:\Windows
System Directory   C:\Windows\system32
Boot Device   \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale   United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer   Version = "10.0.16299.98"
User Name    xxxxxxxxxxxx
Time Zone   Pacific Standard Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM)   16.0 GB
Total Physical Memory   15.9 GB
Available Physical Memory   9.65 GB
Total Virtual Memory   46.9 GB
Available Virtual Memory   38.5 GB
Page File Space   31.0 GB
Page File   C:\pagefile.sys
Virtualization-based security   Not enabled
Device Encryption Support   Reasons for failed automatic device encryption: TPM is not usable, PCR7 binding is not supported, Hardware Security Test Interface failed and device is not InstantGo, Un-allowed DMA capable bus/device(s) detected, TPM is not usable
Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions   Yes
Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions   Yes
Hyper-V - Virtualization Enabled in Firmware   No
Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection   Yes

Hi Logan,
Where do you see or use Prophoto.icm in your setup.?
It is not a printer profile. Please use the proper printer profile to match the paper you are using.
See two screen snaps attached.
One shows selecting the profile and the second one shows the profile sitting in its place in the Qimage properties and settings.

Do you mean Print Preview as set in the driver? If so that never gives an accurate rendition of colour.
Or, were you using QU full screen view by hovering mouse over the thumb and pressing the space bar? Using CTRL C at the same time does a soft proof but I find that can be misleading even with top qulity printer profiles and a high grade calibrated monitor.
Have you actually made a print?
Terry

Thanks for the info. To be clear, prophotorgb is for the file, not the printer. I select the appropriate manufacturer profile for each paper. I have been printing, and working with profiles for over 10 years, including having custom printer profiles made, calibrating my monitor, and making my own custom camera profiles.  I am confident that I have set things up properly

Hi,
In the printer driver, I select preview before printing. In terms of the pink alien skin, that preview is accurate. If it shows there, it shows in the print.  If it does not, then it doesn't show in the print.  In all other areas of the software, the picture shows exactly how it should look.

There are three possibilities here:

(1) The image: the PSD format is not a standard but rather is proprietary so you can't always depend on non-Photoshop software being able to read them properly.  Hold your mouse over the thumbnail and make sure the status bar on the bottom of the main window shows ProPhoto as the color space (since you said your image was in ProPhoto RGB).  If a problem is suspected, try re-saving the same image in 16 bit TIFF format instead of PSD to make sure we don't have a PSD compatibility issue.

(2) The profile: I've seen my share of "broken" printer profiles.  Where did you get the profile you are using?  Is it a Canon profile or a custom profile?  Some software such as Photoshop will actually ignore a profile if they see something about the profile that they don't "like", such as a bad look up table, etc.  If you are using a custom profile, try using a standard Canon profile for the paper you are using or at least use the Canon profile closest to the paper type you are using: just to see if you get the same look/problem with another profile.

(3) The driver: incorrect driver settings is probably the most common issue affecting color output.  If you are convinced you have made all the correct settings in the driver, let's reset the driver and start over: select your printer and then click the "Reset preferences to printer defaults" button to the right of the "Properties" button on the Printers and Settings Tab.  Then choose "Printer" to reset all preferences for your printer.  After that, click "Properties" and set up the driver settings from scratch (be sure to not load any saved setups because they could be incompatible).  Driver settings can sometimes get corrupted when the manufacturer updates the driver and doesn't specify a new driver version, forcing QU to load settings from an older driver version which may not be compatible a recently updated driver.

I listed the most common possibilities although if the image shows correctly when you do a full screen view, we can probably rule out #1 and the problem would seem to like somewhere in items 2 and/or 3.

Regards,
Mike

Thank you for the reply. The profiles are the profiles made by Canon and ilford respectively.  I will try you suggestions below and report back.

Hi,
Just a quick follow-up to make sure I get this correct. Should I be using the XPS driver to ensure a 16 bit pipeline to the printer?  Thanks.

You can use either the normal driver or the XPS driver because QU's dithering (sub-sampling) will send the same data to both and will produce 16 bit gradients on both drivers.  In my experience with Canon drivers, the XPS drivers can be a bit buggy so in all honesty, I think I'd stick with the regular (non-XPS) driver.

Mike

Thank you.  I seem to have overcome the pink alien skin issue.  Out of about 15 prints, I did have two come out with a greenish cast, but it may just be learning curve on my part.  You mentioned sub-sampling.  Does that mean you change the data?  The reason I ask is I would like to understand whether there are any special steps I need to take if I need to print targets for custom icc profiles?  Specifically, I am using the Chromix service, which prints the targets directly from their Maxwell client application.  Does that create any issue?  My understanding is that for ImagePrint (by colorbyte SW), you have to print the targets from within imageprint as their interaction with the printer via the driver goes beyond what other applications can do.


PS, I have a question about Imageprint, but I will save it for another thread.

Thank you.

Yes there is and QU has a special JOB included which sets up QU for target printing.
See attached screen shot.
Click the Recall icon, select "J" for job and scroll down to {Q} printer target setup.job.
Edit:
I've added a screen shot of QU settings for a target I printed in January
Terry

Thank you.

Are you using the canon Print preview option? If you are UNCHECK IT. PRINT DIRECTLY FROM QIMAGE I had similar issues
when using ICC PROFILES.
Regards Mical   

That is good to know. That I have made many successful prints, I no longer need the Canon preview.  Thanks!