Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

Am I right in thinking that the thumbnail panel is re-built in a different way in version 2018?

Mike taught me how to do multiple RAW edits by calling up seven images and leaving my eighth core available for the GUI. What I seem to remember doing was to work on seven and then look for another seven more whilst the RAW caches were being rebuilt.

Now, when I call up several RAWs and alter them the thumbnail box goes black and I cannot get to the next images until the thumbnails of the images have worked on are all rebuilt.

This is what my thumbnails look like before I do a multiple RAW refine.

(http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/qimage1.JPG)

Once I have done a multiple RAW refine my thumbnail screen looks like this:

(http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/qimage.JPG)

Or this

(http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/qimage2.JPG)


I am sure the thumbnails were still visible when the altered ones were being rebuilt before we moved to 2018.

Am I imagining things?

Tony

To give you a feel of the timings.

I applied a blanket 'fill' change using RAW refine to all these images.

I had a black screen for 20 seconds. The second image came up after 40 and it was 1 minute and 20 seconds before I could start working again.

(http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/qimage4.JPG)

Tony

I'm not able to get anything that looks similar.  When I apply a setting to multiple raws, the thumbs build and I have control instantly.  Check the options on the attached screenshot  (Edit, Preferences, Raw Format Options) and make sure you have the thumb building option set to the selection circled in red.

Regards,
Mike

Thanks Mike,

My setting is the same as yours.

I'll get my camera to shoot a movie of my screen and send it to you. Perhaps that will let you spot what I am doing wrong. I'm getting the problem on both of my PCs.

Bye for the moment.

Tony

I've sent Mike a .mov file from my camera showing what happens when I do a multiple RAW refine.

This is the link:-
https://we.tl/0ox37oGVP2

I am sorry but the file is 480 mb. I downloaded OBS which is a bespoke screen capture program but struggled to find out how it worked - so decided to resort to my Oly camera. If more screen videos are needed I will try to master OBS.

There are seven RAW images and it takes almost two and a half minutes to be in a position where the thumbnail screen is useable again.

Presumably there is something amiss in the way my PC is configured to handle QU. This is the machine. I would have thought it was powerful enough :-
(http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/qimage5.JPG)

All suggestions welcome.

Tony

Hi Tony,
I get same as MIke, but I am unable to download your video. I get a blank screen after I click your link. Anyone else able to get it?
Fred
How about sending the file by We Transfer?

I was playing with the link. It appears to be a WE TRANSFER link, but inside the browser tab, I get a we're Sorry, not on line. at the moment.
Just have to wait.
Fred

Hi Tony,
That OBS software is nor user friendly!
Fred and I use Litecam HD https://www.litecam.net/en/product/litecam-hd/ (https://www.litecam.net/en/product/litecam-hd/)
It's only $20 and very useful.
Terry

Tony,
It appears we have almost the same processor, but you have a K after yours... (whatever that means) and I am running with 16.0 ram and W 10 Pro. Marilyn's machine is W 7 Home Premium 32 bit, and builds almost as fast as mine.
Two more things to look at..while we wait for the video and Mike.

Fred

Thanks Fred,

Both of those settings are Ok on my PC.

I have compressed the file down to about 3 mb

It looks rough but I'll WET it to you now. WET are being a bit slow but I could pick up that big one a few minutes ago.

I still have not had a note that the smaller file has gone to WET so I'll email it as an attachment.

Off-line for about 90 mins now whilst I help Mrs G pick up some household goodies from Peter Jones.

Ah - the link is https://we.tl/9F7NADi6ES

T

Both links produce the same result.

Need to wait for later, or do you have a G drive, perhaps.?

Fred

Seems WET is on the blink.

I'll download that utility you recommended and do another video with some talking.

T

WET is still having troubles so I have put a video file on my own server.

http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/20170704-164501_0_4.mp4

I apologise for the rubbish sound. I have not fully worked out how this USB mike works but if you turn the volume up you can hear a bit of what I am saying.

Another one here. Slightly better sound. I will master it !!

http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/20170704-172110_1_3.mp4

Maybe this takes us a bit forward as to my problem?

Tony

Tony,
I see that your refine box did not close. I think it is fighting with the thumb screen.
My refine closes, and it takes 28 seconds to do the thumb rebuild and the new cache.
Just check for a video card driver update while you wait for Mike to advise.

Fred

Could you take a screen snap of the QU splash screen that appears momentarily on startup: the one that tells you your operating system, number of cores, etc. and post that?  In your video, I don't think it's coincidence that control is regained when the status says building raw cache... 5/7.  My guess is that you have 4 cores and control isn't coming back until it gets down to 3 threads remaining: so one is freed up for you (and the UI).  But that is not normal!  Even if you have 4 cores and 4 threads are running, Windows is supposed to still give some CPU time to foreground threads (the QU interface).  It does for me.  I have 8 cores and set #cores to 8 and rebuilt 8 raw thumbs, and the refine window goes away instantly, the thumbs show, and I have control even when all 8 cores are busy.

So for some reason, it looks like your system is getting "locked down" and won't respond if it is using all CPU cores.  Not sure why that would happen... unless you are running an old OS or something.

Regards,
Mike

Thanks Mike,

I have never felt sure both my machines were running as fast as your system expects.

This is the flash screen,

(http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/22226515.JPG)

When I was having troubles with overheating I started to look at this core temp prog. I wondered why I was seeing four cores and I was told that was normal as they were being treated as eight. Is this where the problem is?

(http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/22226516.JPG)

Ony four cores?


I am out of my depth here. I do hope you can help, Mike.

Tony

Most Intel i7 CPU's (except for super expensive ones near or over $1000) are 4 cores with hyper threading: hyper threading adds 4 more "logical" cores for a total of 8.  So you have 4 cores that can do just about anything they want at the same time, with 4 more that can do only certain (mostly integer) operations simultaneously.  The hyper threading (4 logical cores) add 15-30% performance in general (to the 4 "real" cores) so you end up with the performance equivalent of a system that has maybe 5 physical cores in the end.

The reason the operating system reports 8 cores (4 physical + 4 logical) is that they want software like QU to know that they should run 8 threads to get the most performance.  In the grand scheme of things, none of this should matter because the operating system should be able to handle 10, 20, 30, or more threads without you losing control or bogging down such that any one of those running threads won't run until you are down to 7 (or 3) so that one is freed up... but that's how your machine is acting.

As soon as you click the "Done" button on that refine window in your video, QU creates 7 threads to build the 7 raw thumbs and cache.  Fred has the same CPU as you and his behaves like mine, and all others I've seen: you get back to the main window and have control immediately.  I don't have a guess right now as to why yours is behaving like the whole machine is locked out until it gets down to only 3 threads remaining.

I would guess that your entire machine is locked down until the raw cache counter gets to 5/7.  To test that, try this: do the same thing you did in your video and while the QU screen is still unresponsive and showing that partial refine screen, try opening another program that isn't already open: like Chrome, FireFox, MS Word, or some other "small" program.  I bet they won't even open until QU gets to that 5/7 on the raw cache counter; in other words, QU is becoming responsive when the machine itself becomes responsive.

Mike

I would guess that your entire machine is locked down until the raw cache counter gets to 5/7.  To test that, try this: do the same thing you did in your video and while the QU screen is still unresponsive and showing that partial refine screen, try opening another program that isn't already open: like Chrome, FireFox, MS Word, or some other "small" program.  I bet they won't even open until QU gets to that 5/7 on the raw cache counter; in other words, QU is becoming responsive when the machine itself becomes responsive.

I can open them - but I can't close them. I hit the close button and the screen does not clear back to QU.

Do have any suggestions as to how I can cure this?

Tony

The rabbit hole goes deeper: that's even stranger.  :)  That's the same thing that is happening in QU for you: the refine window won't close.

Fred mentioned video card on the previous page.  I didn't think that could cause this but now I'm beginning to wonder.  Did you check for an update to your video card driver as he suggested?  Another thing I would suggest is temporarily disabling any anti-virus or anti-malware software you are running to see if that makes a difference.

Mike

Another thing you could try is cleaning out your thumbnail folder.  Use Utilities, Manage Thumbs and Raw Cache, and try deleting thumbs/cache older than 6 months. See if that helps.

Mike

Thanks Mike.

I have tried all the things you mentioned.

I then re-installed QU17-121 and the problem went away.

I have to go out to take some photos but I'll try to make a video asap and you can see what happens.

Tony

Wow, good report, but did you do the delete, anti virus, and video card update and reinstall, all at once?
Do you know what cured the problem?
... and 2018 is erratic??
Fred

Yes it was going back to the old software that did it.

None of the other actions made any difference.

This is what the old software performs like.

http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/20170705-082500_2_2.mp4


I have gone back to 18.103. Sometimes it works and sometimes it will not clear that refine screen. With the old 17 software it works without a delay every time. There is a difference. I'll stay with v17 until we work out what the difference is.

I think 18.103 worked for the first time I reverted from v17 - but then became slow. I need more time to confirm this but need to go out now. I'll experiment again later.

Tony

I really don't think Mike made any changes to eh rebuild with threads, but we have to wait for him.

I was so happy that it worked for you that I didn't see the 2017 reinstall number until after I posted.
Fred

I think 18.103 worked for the first time I reverted from v17 - but then became slow. I need more time to confirm this but need to go out now. I'll experiment again later.

No. It was either luck or bad memory on my part. I have reverted  from v2017 to the latest v2018 and even the first multiple RAW refine was hopelessly slow

2017 does all I need as most of the variations in 2018 are to do with printing. Yes, I use QU for printing but its main use for me is converting RAW files.

Nevertheless I will be fascinated to hear what Mike says he introduced that may be causing my malfunction.

Tony

I too, would love the explanation especially when your system is the only reported instance of a locked Qimage until the threads are released.
That's what makes the tracking down so difficult.  We cannot repeat what you get.

Fred

Is there a reason that, in the old version, you only selected the left two columns of thumbnails: such that when the refine screen appears, there would be no thumbs selected under the refine window?  Since part of the problem is that the refine window doesn't close, what happens when you select the entire top row of thumbs and repeat the multi-refine in the old version with an entire row of thumbs selected: can you post a video of that?

Mike

No real reason, Mike. Just wanting to ring the changes.

I have now selected the top two lines of thumbnails.

In 217 http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/20170705-143745_1_3.mp4

In 218 http://www.tonygamble.uk/QimageThumbnails/20170705-144011_1_3.mp4

I think that second one runs for about two minutes 45 secs before the panel becomes usable again.

Tony

That helps, thanks.  In this one, it is more apparent that it is building the thumbnails that happen to be under the refine window (in the foreground) before giving control back.  That could be timing (video card/CPU) related.  With that in mind, I just emailed you a link to a beta that may fix the problem.  Could you give that a try and reply here as to whether the beta fixes the problem?

Thanks,
Mike

The beta works fine, Mike.

Well done.

I have only tried it on one PC but the two machines are as near identical as possible. I'll test the other later today.

EDIT.   Works fine on the second PC.

Many thanks.

Tony