Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

I have been using Image Lite and Ultimate under Win7 for years and it is a great application!!
During this time I have had no problems printing using custom icc profiles.
I recently upgraded to Win 10 64 bit and have upgraded to the latest version of QI Ultimate. I then printed using two custom icc profiles newly created by my HP Designjet Z3100 using both perceptual and relative colorimetric rendering intents using the HP Win7 driver for the Z3100 as recommended by HP Designjet Forum. The two icc profiles are for matt paper and have a slightly inward kink between purple and magenta in the 3d visualisation of these profiles. I used the Digital Dog ProPhoto RGB test file and also some of my previous images in Adobe RGB 1998. In both cases the resultant prints were very disappointing, with noticeable poor rendering of purple, brown, yellow and significant differences in gamma.  I then decided to print the same files from Photoshop CC with both rendering intents as before. The difference was like night and day! in particular for blues, cyans and magenta hues and also the gamma was greatly improved.
So, it looks to me like QI Ultimate and Photoshop CC are not doing the same thing with the icc profiles, even when other settings are the same (ICM Off, Application Manages Color, selected ICC profile and rendering set to either Perceptual or Relative Colorimetric).
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Hi John,
Despite being a long time user of QU, we can sometimes miss something.
Carefully check out Mike's article on the subject here, you may spot what is going wrong.

http://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/may-2011-printing-the-same-colors-in-qimage-ultimate-and-photoshop/ (http://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/may-2011-printing-the-same-colors-in-qimage-ultimate-and-photoshop/)

Terry

John,
I was poking around and I see that the Z3200 has a new driver for W 10 but the 3100 says to use Windows built in driver.
Fred

Thanks Both,

I will check that all settings in both the app and system driver are same over next few days. As for the Win10 Z3100 driver, you are correct - except that it's a 'class' driver which means that you can't set paper type in it - the Win7 driver allows you to do this and works.

-John

Terry,

A report on my latest findings using an HP paper and profile rather than custom paper and profile in order to remove another variable:

1. Firstly, I ran a calibration and then a print diagnostic image on the Z3100 on HP SG Contract proofing paper - all printheads are healthy!
2. I then obtained two Adobe RGB test images (one from Digital Dog, the other from Dry Creek Photo)
3. I then set the main printer driver to Printer Manages Color and ICM off
4. I then set the printer settings in Qimage to the same (in fact they already were the same)
5. I then set PrtrICC to Let printer/driver manage color
6. I then printed both Adobe RGB images
7. I then set the main printer driver to Application Manages Color and repated same fo rthe printer settings in Qimage
8. I then set Prtr ICC to HP Designjet Z3100, HP Professional Semi-gloss Contract Proofing (RC, BPC)
9. I then printed both Adobe RGB images.

See attached images snipped at various points during this process - I have taken more but the 4 attachment limit means than I haven't included those for Printer Manages Color.

The result is that the Printer Manages Color images are superior in respect of yellow, magenta and cyan saturation. with a noticable step in the application managed hue print as the color goes from red to purple and blue, although there is a noticable step on the cyan for the printer managed version. There is almost no difference in the greyscale steps, with both being unable to render a difference between 0 and 5%. The overall effect is that skin tones look very slightly pinker for the application managed version.

I haven't had time to repeat this all via Photoshop CC yet. Suffice to say, that I am puzzled as to why there should be such a noticable difference for CMY.

John

Terry,

The results for Photoshop CC using the HP SG Proofing paper icc (see attached settings) are that these prints are the best, but not by much. They are closest to the Printer Manages Color prints but without a gradient setp in cyan and slightly more saturated magenta. So comparing Qimage with Photoshop CC, the latter is superior in CMY, as is Printer Manages Color.

Any further suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks,

John

This is not correct.
Printer manage color setting in Qimage calls for ICM ON in the driver.

Fred

Fred,

If that is true, why are the prints produced by Printer Managed Color and those via Photoshop almost the same (or much more similar than those via Qimage and icc)?

In any case, there is a noticable difference between Application Managed Color via Qimage and Photoshop. And, I have just done a print to file of the same test files using Qimage, with output color space being Adobe RGB and rendering intent relative colorimetric. I then printed the file in Photoshop and it is essentially the same as the original files suggesting that the Qimage color engine is processing print to file and print to printer differently, which doesn't make sense.

-John

Fred,

I think I may be abe to answer my own question in the previous post: the HP Designjet Z3100 has an in-built spectrophotometer and creates its own calibrations and icc profiles. These are resident on the printer and the printer knows which paper you have loaded as you tell it when you load the paper. Therefore if you print with ICM off (ie Windows isn't messing with color management), then the color management is down to the printer, which is fine as it knows what the paper is, and therefore which calibration and profile to use.

Regards,

John

https://luminous-landscape.com/hp-z3100-printer-review/

gives details of the built in calibration and icc profiles.

Reading this review I suffered first degree burns  when I noticed the costs involved and my wallet over heated and caught fire.

jeff

Before I send a condolence card, I need to know in which pocket do you carry your wallet.

Fred

Right hand.

jeff

Since you reported first degree burns, I really needed to know "FRONT OR BACK" pocket

OK If you must know,   Front Right. I normally keep my hand on it to make it difficult for pick pockets.  Well that is my explanation.