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Author Topic: Printing with equal margins  (Read 15249 times)
Gordo
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« on: January 05, 2011, 05:41:55 AM »

In printing greeting cards I'm having difficulty getting equal 1/8" (.125) margins.  Paper stock is 5.5" wide x 8.0" high (portrait).  The image is 5.25" wide x 3.75" high, landscape (.tif @240ppi) to be located at the top of the stock - therefore 1/8" margins on top, left & right. The stock is then folded in half at the 4" point, giving a 1/8" margin at the bottom of the image as well.

I'm getting a right margin that is too fat and the image is not printing a full 5.25"  Why?  It is printing an exact 3.75" height.   If it would print the exact 5.25 width, then the R margin would be perfect. 

If there is no remedy (something I'm not setting properly or an Epson 2400, 2200, or 3800 quirk, how does one nudge the image in very small increments to eliminate skinny or fat margins.   I think a $4. card ought to have equal margins.... and hopefully a $5. image   :-)

Thanks,

Gordo

     
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Terry-M
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 10:01:59 AM »

Hi Gordo,
One possible causes of unequal margins is the printer mechanical set-up. I have an R800 that behaves in the same way, the RH page margin is bigger that the left, ie. the printable area is off-set but not changed so the full printable width is still available.
Quote
the image is not printing a full 5.25"  Why?  It is printing an exact 3.75" height.   If it would print the exact 5.25 width, then the R margin would be perfect.
Some questions:
1. Have you specified the size in Qimage (not used an embedded size)?
2. Have you got the crop scissors on - the specified size will not be achieved without this unless the aspect ration of image and print size are EXACTLY the same?
3. What is Qimage reporting as the printed size - click the Print Queue tab (bottom right of main screen), the exact size Qimage sends to the printer is reported there. If it's not correct, something is wrong in your settings (1 and/or 2 above).
If possible attach a screen shot of the RH side of the Qimage screen so we can see your settings and maybe see a problem.
Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 10:10:54 AM »

Quote
m getting a right margin that is too fat and the image is not printing a full 5.25"  Why?  It is printing an exact 3.75" height.   If it would print the exact 5.25 width, then the R margin would be perfect.

If there is no remedy (something I'm not setting properly or an Epson 2400, 2200, or 3800 quirk, how does one nudge the image in very small increments to eliminate skinny or fat margins.   I think a $4. card ought to have equal margins.... and hopefully a $5. image   :-)

Thanks,

Gordo

I have mine in an OK setup, I believe.
See screen snaps.
I have a 0.13 margin around all sides (including the bottom at 4.13) with the correct print size. 3.75 x 5.25.
As Terry said. Crop scissor on, get the User Defined paper size set, Set print size in Custom print size.
Then all I did was go into the Full Page Editor, and type into the upper margin box, 0.125.
Have I got it OK or I missed something?

Fred
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Gordo
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 11:58:25 PM »

Thanks for the quick replies, gentlemen!

I started with Terry's #1,2 & 3:  check, check, check - all  systems O.K..  On to Fred's setup - replicated his settings.  Tilt on all counts.

There is a brain cramp here!!!  Where is it?  PS, Epson 2200 & 2400,  Gordo, or Qimage?  To troubleshoot I checked:  image from PS-CS3 (1260x900 @ 240ppi  - 3.75x5.25  8 bits/channel, .tif).   In QU: Epson 2200/ paper size tab:  5.5x8.5 1/2 letter - portrait (I used a stock size  (1/2 letter rather than my earlier 5.5x8 custom size - to minimize possible driver variables).  Page Layout tab: nothing checked (should I check "Minimize Margins"?).

In Qimage/Preview Page:  Page: it starts out at 5.251 x7.819 (720x720).  When I drag the thumbnail the Page: changes to 5.241??
Print Properties/Custom/"Enter Specific Size" (5.25x3.75),  Cropping "On".
Edit Page: 1260x900, Cropping tab: 5.24x3.75.  Size/Loc. tab: Actual Print Size: 5.24x3.75.  Print Location: .13-T, .13-L, .13-R, 4.62-B.   Prints come out: .12-L, .16-R, .13-T, & 4.615-B    UGH!!!  Also tried same on Epson 2400.
How do I do a screen shot in Qimage?

Thanks again,
Gordo     
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rayw
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 01:53:59 AM »

try selecting borderless printing in the driver, if you want narrow margins.
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Fred A
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 10:34:05 AM »

Quote
In Qimage/Preview Page:  Page: it starts out at 5.251 x7.819 (720x720).  When I drag the thumbnail the Page: changes to 5.241??
Print Properties/Custom/"Enter Specific Size" (5.25x3.75),  Cropping "On".
Edit Page: 1260x900, Cropping tab: 5.24x3.75.  Size/Loc. tab: Actual Print Size: 5.24x3.75.  Print Location: .13-T, .13-L, .13-R, 4.62-B.   Prints come out: .12-L, .16-R, .13-T, & 4.615-B    UGH!!!  Also tried same on Epson 2400.

Gordo, I realize that you are posting out of frustration, but in order to solve the problem, you have to keep the parameters you set for us and realize that if Ray, Terry and I can ger the setup you desire, and I showed you a screen snap in my last post, then you can do it too.
I hope you clicked the screen snap to enlarge it!!

Now we revert to one step at a time!!
Before we move up the ladder, we have to make sure the ladder is on solid ground/
So let's get a couple of checkpoints agreed upon between you, Terry, Ray, and me. OK?

*) The paper size you gave  us to that you were using

Quote: Paper stock is 5.5" wide x 8.0" high (portrait).

Go into Qimage, HELP, and click RESET PRINTER.
That should remove any finagling you might have done in the driver PAGE LAYOUT
.
1) In the driver, in paper size select User Defined, and set the size to (see screen snap) 5.5" x 8.0"

2) Open Custom in the Qimage Print size properties box and type into the top row, Custom Size: (see screen snap) 5.25 x 3.75

3) Verify from the third screen snap that we have the same printable dimensions. Do the numbers above the preview panel in my third screen snap match what you see.?

That's all we need.
If you would kindly follow the three instructions plus the RESET PRINTER, and reply with a yes or no on the last question, we are good to go to the final steps.

Fred
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Gordo
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 11:16:58 PM »

Hello Again,
First: Ray, Thanks for the "borderless" checkbox alert.  Epson doesn't allow custom paper sizes (5.5x8 - this project) when borderless is checked.  And Terry, I share your observation about Epson's skinny left available print "margins". 

Fred, thanks again for your time and help!!!  I followed your 1,2,3 - first with the 2200 (5.266x7.333) & then with the 2400 (5.266x7.766) obviously a difference in the two printer's allowable print area - bottom.  I shifted to the 2400 & printed the 5.25x3.75 with equal .127 margins (please, hold the giggles!  I have a 4 place digital micrometer that I use in the shop. Visuals are fine but when trying to nudge margins...to 3 places.....

Is there a sticky face for EUREKA!!!?   I've been trying to push the river (PS, Publisher, Epson, et al) for years whenever I occasionally do cards and mailers.  Up front this was the reason (image placement) that I purchased QU.....I'm sure other features will come into focus as projects come along.

I went back to the 2200.  I'm convinced that its driver has been the main brain cramp. There is nothing I can do to avoid the .114 left margin.....short of a bigger hammer?   During this current struggle, I now suspect the 2200.  When I select or drag an image into Preview I often don't get the Print Properties dialogue (Print Sizes), just a light gray rectangle of its size.  Also, yesterday I had 2 program lock-ups.

Another item: when I reset and then go File/Printer-Page Setup, set the paper size I got a "you have margins in place that don't work with your paper size...do you want to check it out?".   Where is that - how do I get that margin dialogue?   In Full Page Editor/Print Location I'm not able to change those margins....they just keep going back to default numbers.  I thought crop was On....just set paper size, margin size & QU will crop (size the image)?   I just need to learn in Qimage who's the dog and who's the tail....which parameters precede or prevent other settings.   A program architecture flow diagram could list, locate, and to a degree, indicate hierarchy of features and tools.

Fred and fellow forum helpers,  thanks a lot.    Without a publisher's thorough instruction manual and/or copious aftermarket literature, your willingness to help is huge!

Gordo

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Fred A
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 10:41:02 AM »

Quote
Fred, thanks again for your time and help!!!  I followed your 1,2,3 - first with the 2200 (5.266x7.333) & then with the 2400 (5.266x7.766) obviously a difference in the two printer's allowable print area - bottom.  I shifted to the 2400 & printed the 5.25x3.75 with equal .127 margins (please, hold the giggles!  I have a 4 place digital micrometer that I use in the shop. Visuals are fine but when trying to nudge margins...to 3 places.....

Is there a sticky face for EUREKA!!!?   I've been trying to push the river (PS, Publisher, Epson, et al) for years whenever I occasionally do cards and mailers.  Up front this was the reason (image placement) that I purchased QU.....I'm sure other features will come into focus as projects come along.

Gordo, with all due respect, I am pleased that you got it.
I think you got it.
I am basing my hope that you got it working, based on the word Eureka!
I didn't understand any of the rest of the post, but then I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
You will have to get to Terry and Ray (engineers)

I will add though to help some more, (see screen snap) that in the Full Page Editor screen, you can type locations into the little location box, setting the margin to 0.12 by typing it.
Another feature is to use the arrow keys on the keyboard. Each click of the arrow key moves the image 0.01 inches on the paper.
Hold the SHIFT key while clicking the arrow key and you move 0.12 .

That may help you in the future.

Good job.

Fred
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Terry-M
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 10:43:56 AM »

Quote
Where is that - how do I get that margin dialogue?
It's Edit, Preferences, Print and Page Formatting.
Quote
A program architecture flow diagram
We need one of those for your posts too, less of the chat and more facts as Fred requested.  Shocked
Quote
I just need to learn in Qimage who's the dog and who's the tail....which parameters precede or prevent other settings.
Have you looked at the Help, Getting familiar with Qimage, Learning Tools etc.?
Terry


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Gordo
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 08:45:48 PM »

Terry and Fred, thanks for the notes.  When I see your combined posts at 2,625, I'm all ears!  Kudos!  Terry, your "Cut the chat.... just the facts" is a fair, constructive crit.  I need to work on that, big time!

With the margin hassle solved,  I reflect:  I'm going to benefit from other QU features as projects call.  Thanks Mike Chaney, and the DDI Team!!!   And again, thanks forum posters and responders.   I read in the forum well before buying the program.

Off topic but perhaps of interest to anyone learning or writing/publishing an app:  A program flow chart.   Borrowing from Mr. Pogue: "The Missing Chart....That Should Have Been In The Box".  My first program "Visicalc", a spreadsheet, purchased with my Apple II+ - circa 1980, had an 8.5x11 sheet showing every tool, its location, keystrokes to get there and how to get back - Brilliant!!!   One can learn more by perusing the flow chart for 15 minutes than by poking around in the program, posting/reading forums (incl. my verbosity) for hours if not weeks.    Chart available for $1  - Shipping and handling; $9.95  ...I don't believe in smiley faces.  If we don't get the humor or the grumpy from the language, then it's probably not worth getting.

That most (safe to use "all"?) software publishers do not include such a diagram nowadays, is a huge loss of time and energy.

Off the soapbox,

Gordo
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rayw
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 12:39:50 AM »

Hi Gordo,

I don't think a flow chart giving enough useful detail for you to have solved your equal border problem, could be fitted on a single sheet of paper, bearing in mind the number of variations possible, and considering you would need a similar level of detail for other aspects of qimage, too.  I think the best way is to try things out for yourself, play with it, immerse yourself in it, so to speak. The built in help system and tutorials are actually pretty good.

Now, when I mentioned borderless printing, did you think why I mentioned that, or did you just accept what epson said and moved on? Did you try for example, giving a false, larger page size to the printer driver, one that accepted borderless printing? If you have a longer sheet than selected in the driver, does the printer give an error message. If you use a shorter sheet? Does the printer sense the paper width? can you use a piece of card, whatever, in the paper path to nudge the paper over a bit. Why do epson not allow borderless on odd sizes? If you try to answer these questions for yourself, you will get an understanding of the mechanics of your printers, possibly find alternatives to trying to do fancy things based solely on software capabilities, or manufacturer's decisions. If all else fails, if a hard edge print can not be placed exactly as you want, then simply blurring/fading the edge of the image can be effective. Where do we stick that in the flowchart?  Wink

Best wishes,

Ray

Ps- trying to give a fishing lesson here, not the fish Grin
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 12:42:16 AM by rayw » Logged
Gordo
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 10:57:00 PM »

Ray, your workarounds are creative.  Lots of folks will benefit.  Another I've used is sending #10 and A2 envelopes thru the printer piggyback on an 8.5x11 enhanced matte sheet using double sided tape, to print bleed end caps (logo/return address).  Tedious!

Your "I don't think a flow chart giving enough useful detail for you to have solved your equal border problem could be fitted on a single sheet of paper....."  and further on ...."Where do we stick that in the flowchart?"   suggests that you didn't understand my description:  "An 8.5x11 sheet showing every tool, its location, keystrokes to get there, and how to get back.   And: "A program architecture flow diagram".

Perhaps best clarified e.g.:  A sheet - root, trunk, branches (a tree) - a flow diagram, lists every setting on all of the menus of a Nikon D90 .....not a sheet, a flow diagram of how to shoot a wedding.   

If I had had the same for QU, I guarantee that I could have solved the equal, minimum borders issue without fiddle-farting around for 2 hours (trial and error) and bothering the kind helpers on this forum.....or having to utilize your excellent but tedious workarounds.

I rest,

Gordo

   

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Terry-M
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2011, 10:00:35 AM »

Quote
Perhaps best clarified e.g.:  A sheet - root, trunk, branches (a tree) - a flow diagram, lists every setting on all of the menus of a Nikon D90 .....
Have you asked Adobe and Microsoft to do that for their programs  Huh?  Wink
Qimage has a comprehensive "Learn by Example" list in Help; I suggest you look at those and get serious about learning the the features and the menus.
You may find it helpful that there is a "Menu Cheater" icon, 4th from the left at the top of the main screen. This short-cuts multi-layer menus.

Quote
I guarantee that I could have solved the equal, minimum borders issue without fiddle-farting around for 2 hours (trial and error)
Fred clearly demonstrated how to get your size and equal margins right but we never really got a clear reply or screen shot from you. Did you change printers because one could not print equal margins, or ... ? I was lost in the lack of logical flow.
All this talk about "workarounds" is nonsense; Qimage does not have any bugs at present for you to "workaround". It has  a comprehensive set of features which can be used creatively. This may include overcoming limitations of your printer and driver. When in borderless mode, tweaking page margins to centralize the image on the page is a "feature" clearly documented in the help.
The page margins dialogue also has a feature to centralize margins but warns that you loose printable area.
Terry

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Fred A
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2011, 10:37:42 AM »

Quote
If I had had the same for QU, I guarantee that I could have solved the equal, minimum borders issue without fiddle-farting around for 2 hours (trial and error) and bothering the kind helpers on this forum.....or having to utilize your excellent but tedious workarounds.

Gordo
I must reply to your outrageous ramblings.
All you had to do was follow the step by step instructions, numbered and coupled with screen snaps that I sent you twice.
Terry was there for you and Ray was there for you, and you have the audacity to complain about 2 hours of fiddle farting?

What about Terry and Ray and myself trying to understand what you needed, making the screen snaps, composing our replies in varying fashions in the hope that you might follow instructions.
Did we spend time trying to help you?
Instead, you ramble on adding 4 different printer, and envelopes, and changing paper sizes and never once, did you reply to my questions.
Talk about wasting time! Now you put the blame on Qimage not having a personalized work flow chart for you.
That would definitely be a waste of time as you have demonstrated that you cannot follow instructions at all.

To be honest, I stopped trying to go any further with help, because your replies were non responsive.
It got to the point where I asked Terry if we could perhaps be on "CANDID FORUM", that you sponsored and our "legs were being pulled".

Why don't you read the thread, starting from your initial post, and read them slowly one by one.
See if you replied to any post that had instructions or questions. Be honest!

If you have any other operations that require any help, and you are willing to respond to questions and report readings and results as requested, we will certainly try again to help you.

Fred

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Gordo
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2011, 08:08:27 PM »

Thanks yet again for staying with this thread.  Obviously I appreciate your help; I began reading reviews and this forum in late Nov,  and purchased QU  12/6/10.  I have ~ 15 hours with the program - on screen.   Your combined posts on Q, ~3000, is highly impressive, and invaluable to us newcomers, regulars and the programers.  Needless to say, eh?

This post is brief until I get back ("cash register" problems), with some line item thoughts & problems.

Gordo 
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