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Author Topic: Problem with raw rendering RAW file from Panasonic G3  (Read 9700 times)
DdeGannes
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« on: June 16, 2013, 01:17:05 PM »

I have three cameras Oly E300 & E510 and Panasonic G3. I have specific profiles for the two Oly cameras but there is only a standard (I believe) profile for the Panasonic.
The screen shot shows my Raw Preferences in QU and I have selected to apply camera specific profile. When I work with the Panasonic raw files info at the bottom of the screen says adobe.icm.
The second attachment is a copy of a rendered raw from the Panasonic camera. There is a color shift in highlight areas on the birds wing and leg, which I expect is due to clipping of one of the colors. I do not have a problem when using other software (LR & Capture one 7.) Any ideas on how to correct for the color shift? Or do I need to have a specific profile created for the G3? I can make the raw file available if necessary.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2013, 01:44:01 PM »

Hi Dennis,
What are the RGB values as read in the refine screen and have you Refined the image? A click on a rectangle may do the trick, try a blue outline first, if that is not enough, use a magenta outline.
Yellows are always tricky I find.
Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 01:46:55 PM »

Hi Dennis,
I just looked at the list of profiled cameras, and the Pana G3 is included.
Do you have it.?
I believe it is free for the asking from Mike for paid up Ultimate users.
If you don't have it, I'll check here and see if I have it. It might be newer than my zip file.
Fred

* I misspoke.
I looked at the list of supported cameras, and not the profile list.
Apologies!
Fred

What color space are the other programs using to display your image?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 01:56:30 PM by Fred A » Logged
DdeGannes
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 02:08:40 PM »

Hi Dennis,
I just looked at the list of profiled cameras, and the Pana G3 is included.
Do you have it.?
I believe it is free for the asking from Mike for paid up Ultimate users.
If you don't have it, I'll check here and see if I have it. It might be newer than my zip file.
Fred

* I misspoke.
I looked at the list of supported cameras, and not the profile list.
Apologies!
Fred

What color space are the other programs using to display your image?


Yes I believe I saw it on the list some time ago, and also say the notice about the free profiles but thought they would install automatically with the new versions. I am fully up to date with QU. Attached is a file from LR with the same color space Adobe RGB.
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Fred A
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 03:06:27 PM »

Quote
Yes I believe I saw it on the list some time ago, and also say the notice about the free profiles but thought they would install automatically with the new versions. I am fully up to date with QU. Attached is a file from LR with the same color space Adobe RGB.

Dennis,
I believe I did edit my last post to redact my saying that your camera profile was there. I apologized. I was looking at teh supported camera list for Raw.

Nevertheless, it looks like Terry is on the right track.
There are certain presets in each software.  It looks like your image might need a small exposure adjustment for the blown out spots on the bird, that's all.


Since Terry started the adjusting response, I should let him follow through.
It is father;s day for him too, so he might be a while.
If you feel like sending the Raw via WETRANSFER or similar, be happy to have a try, and I can send it to Terry too.

Fred
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DdeGannes
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2013, 11:00:53 AM »

The link to the raw file. Thanks for the offer to help. Is there a way to reduce the exposure of the original or is this done using the fill slider in raw refine.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/WFJXNWN1Z2pEa1c1aWNUQw
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COMP EQP: iMac 27" mid 2015 5K Retina macOS 11.2.3; 24GB Ram; Scan Elite 5400 film scr.
CAMERA EQP: Oly OMD EM-1, Digital Zuiko & OM lenses.
Imaging Apps: PS CC 20; LR Classic CC 9.3; Qimage U & One; VueScan.
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 02:27:46 PM »

Dennis,

When I open that image in LR, I get the same white blown out areas that I see in QU.  In LR, I have to take exposure down (manually) to about -1.9 stops before I can turn the white blown out areas yellow, and even when I do that, the areas are still blown out: they're just blown out yellow instead of white.

What is happening here is that without drastically reducing exposure on that raw, all of the tools are going to show those clipped areas white because one channel is clipping long before the others.  The way the raw decoders handle this is to clip to white because if you didn't, you'd get individual channels clipping and that area would look bright green instead of being white.  Simply put, one channel is clipped so badly that the real color in that area cannot be known (the ratios of R-G-B are no longer known).  So it is clipped to white so that your blown out areas don't end up turning bright magenta, green, yellow, or some other color that ruins the image because it doesn't match the real color.

So it's all in how it is handling the clipping.  This is a one-up problem that you'll very rarely ever see or need to deal with because it requires some pretty drastically blown out areas of very saturated colors.  Last week I started developing a manual exposure control for the raw refine window in QU so that's coming soon.  With that control, you'll be able to drag the exposure up/down just like you can in LR and other raw tools: for those rare cases where selecting an exposure by the grid doesn't give you enough control.  Once we have that, you'll be able to do the same thing in QU as you have to do in LR to get rid of those white clipped areas: drag the exposure down until the one channel that is clipping badly is under control and doesn't cause the other channels to compensate.

Technically, it's still clipped but by reducing exposure that far you are "fooling" the "clip to white" methodology.  If you look at your renderings where the white clipping isn't present: you'll see that in those same areas, the yellow is a different shade of yellow.  Turns out that in this image, it's not objectionable, but this color shift is the reason that the "clip to white" feature exists... to avoid color shifts.

Regards,
Mike
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DdeGannes
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 03:27:28 PM »

Thanks for the post Mike, I understand what you are saying and am aware that the bird was overexposed in the capture. This particular one is very difficult to capture since it keeps it distance and sometimes the very act of raising the camera to take the picture send him flying. For what its worth I am attaching a screen capture showing the edits in LR basic panel. I am certainly looking forward to the upcoming exposure control in the raw refine.
  
On another note I have shot a couple or raw files of a Graytagmacbeth card with the G3. If I send them in a zip via yousenit(dot)com is it possible to create a profile for QU.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 03:34:39 PM by DdeGannes » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 04:16:59 PM »

Thanks for showing the parameters.  That was my point: LR didn't render the bird that way by default and that's some pretty heavy handed editing to bring it back (between your minus exposure, minus highlights, plus shadows, etc.).  And... you've still got a bird with clipped wings: it's just clipped differently than QU clips it.  Wink

See the attached.  I did this with QU just by clicking the center grid and selecting the purple highlight recovery option and then reducing the fill light to +5.  I then added a touch of DFS tone targeted sharpening since the bird was out of focus.

I don't really see one rendition as generically "better" than the other because without "painting" manually, you can't really fix that bird as both renditions are still "blown".  My rendition looks a bit overexposed but pretty natural for a bright exposure.  Yours looks "color burned" but without the whiter areas.  Six here... half a dozen there.

Mike
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DdeGannes
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 04:36:00 PM »

Thanks for looking into the issues and your advice. Keep up your great work with QU.
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COMP EQP: iMac 27" mid 2015 5K Retina macOS 11.2.3; 24GB Ram; Scan Elite 5400 film scr.
CAMERA EQP: Oly OMD EM-1, Digital Zuiko & OM lenses.
Imaging Apps: PS CC 20; LR Classic CC 9.3; Qimage U & One; VueScan.
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