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Author Topic: QImage Installer and All Users Run Fail  (Read 4153 times)
robitguy
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« on: January 09, 2022, 10:35:20 PM »

I've been using QImage for many years with different versions. I just got the latest version today and was disappointed that the installer and app has not been "monderized" to run as a non administrator. This is basic security. Come on. A great deal of energy is spent explaining how anti virus might detect a false positive, etc. but you haven't bother to fixed the most basic of security. The app MUST be able to operate with a non-administrator account. Sorry but this is very frustrating. I don't recommend this program because of this problem. Don't you think it's time to join the 21st Century?
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admin
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2022, 02:10:32 PM »

I think it might be time to stop obsessing over irrelevant topics that you deem "security issues".  If you know about security, then you should know that ALL installers require elevation to administrator to install because you cannot write to places like the program files folder to install the software without it.  I don't know why you would have trouble installing as a non-administrator: people do it all the time.  You run the installer as the non-admin and (like any installer), the installer will ask you for the admin password just to gain access to install the software.

Mike
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robitguy
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2022, 08:17:49 PM »

Mike, I'm sorry if you see this as obsessing over security. If I was obsessing over security, I would point out the lack of SSL encryption on this forum and your primary website Wink

1/ The software was installed as a regular user. Admin credentials were requested and supplied. The application was installed with no apparent errors.
2/ Attempting to run the application as the regular user results in errors. Others have experienced the same problems. Issue seems related to accessing folders in programdata and/or non-existent folders. This results in the app not being able to configure the initial licensing and access to folders for usage.
3/ IF, you log in as an administrator everything works fine.

This issue started with Windows 7. I could only use it when I was logged in as an administrator.

Anyways, I don't run any third party AV only Windows Defender. There are no errors, warnings or notifications on installation. Defender does not log any warnings or issues.

Mike, don't get me wrong. I like the application. However, I have not had this type of an experience with any other applications. The reason why I've posted on other posts is because I felt it would be helpful to share my experience.
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admin
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2022, 08:44:26 PM »

Mike, I'm sorry if you see this as obsessing over security. If I was obsessing over security, I would point out the lack of SSL encryption on this forum and your primary website Wink

1/ The software was installed as a regular user. Admin credentials were requested and supplied. The application was installed with no apparent errors.
2/ Attempting to run the application as the regular user results in errors. Others have experienced the same problems. Issue seems related to accessing folders in programdata and/or non-existent folders. This results in the app not being able to configure the initial licensing and access to folders for usage.
3/ IF, you log in as an administrator everything works fine.

This issue started with Windows 7. I could only use it when I was logged in as an administrator.

Anyways, I don't run any third party AV only Windows Defender. There are no errors, warnings or notifications on installation. Defender does not log any warnings or issues.

Mike, don't get me wrong. I like the application. However, I have not had this type of an experience with any other applications. The reason why I've posted on other posts is because I felt it would be helpful to share my experience.

You are making incorrect assumptions.  If you install Qimage as a normal (limited) user, the installation asks for the admin password or PIN, the software installs without issue, and running it (as the limited user) afterward does not require any form of administrative permissions or "run as administrator".  And no, others are not having this problem (see below).  If you have any issues and/or have to run as administrator, it is not the fault of Qimage and you have one of the issues listed in the bottom list below.

To address your errant assumptions:

(1) Access to the ProgramData folder is guaranteed by Windows: that's what it is for: program data.  It is a folder where programs can store data and by definition, it is accessible by all users!

(2) Some poorly written anti-virus software (Norton for example) may try to prevent writing program data to the ProgramData folder.  This could result in "write access denied" but is due to AV interference and not Qimage.

(3) The installer no longer uses the ProgramData folder (hasn't for a while): the latest versions use the user data folder (%appdata%) instead.  If an old version used ProgramData, new versions won't try to change that: but you can during install if you like.

(4) Qimage certainly doesn't try to access "non-existent" folders because every folder that Qimage needs is created/confirmed to exist during installation.  If you believe otherwise, tell me what "non-existent" folder(s) you think it's trying to access!


Bottom line: there has never been a problem with Qimage using wrong folders or access privileges.  All issues with permissions or users reporting needing to run as admin are caused by the following:

(1) Anti-virus software blocking access to areas that should be accessible.

(2) Limited users making mistakes: using an admin account to install the software and then switching to a limited user after the install to run it: limited users need to install under their own account.

(3) Users deciding to change the "application data" folder during install and picking a location where they don't have full access as a limited user.

If you've seen any other (rare) complaints about messages regarding file access, they can all be binned in one of those three categories.

Mike
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 08:46:03 PM by admin » Logged
robitguy
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2022, 09:41:34 PM »

Hi Mike,

Just so you know, I'm a computer systems analyst with over 25 years of experience working with all aspects desktop, server and application support. I do understand how to install software.

In my experience, when I install the software under a regular user context and elevating the privileges for that user to install with the equivalent of a run as using an administrator account the software appears to install correctly but does not run as expected under the regular user account.

As an experiment, for the folders that the application was complaining about, I have created folders and set permissions for the regular user and it works, although some exceptions are raised for missing icm profiles. I expect that because the folders are being created during installation under the administrator ACL and this results in the regular user not having sufficient permissions to those folders and/or they are not in the regular users path.

Now, I just thought of something that might be related. The Windows 7 computer and the Windows 10 computers are both members of a Windows Active Directory Domain. I don't know if that makes any difference to your installation process or not.  

 
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 09:44:18 PM by robitguy » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2022, 11:04:48 PM »

I'm not going to get into a measuring match and start measuring my 40 years as a software engineer against your 25 as a system's analyst, my CS degree versus your degree, etc.  I don't care about any of that.  What I do care about (and what I know) is that the installer works perfectly, including for a limited (non-admin) user if it is installed from the correct account and you don't make mistakes during the install like picking an install/application folder where you don't have full access.  It installs properly (with admin password), the installer gains admin/installer access needed to install the application, files and folders are still created under the limited user's account and are owned by the limited user.  There are no problems with permissions and the limited user can run the software normally without ever having to use run as administrator.  As expected, all folders/files created during install are accessible without needing admin rights because regardless of how they were installed, they are owned by the limited user and the only files that need write access are those located in the "application data" folder and the installer automatically picks a folder that should have full access for that, even if you are a limited user.

Now, if you want to discuss why you are having your one-up issue on your particular system, that probably makes more sense than you coming here, telling me how to run my website, and then proclaiming that my work is "bad programming".  If you really learned what you needed in your 25 years "analyzing systems" and you know more than I do, certainly you'll know how to fix this: reinstall and pick a folder for the "application data" selection where you know you (as a limited user) have full access.  Done.  There is even a data migration tool in the Utilities menu in Qimage that helps you move prior data... if that's your wish.

Mike
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 11:17:36 PM by admin » Logged
robitguy
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2022, 02:49:43 AM »

WOW I guess you know everything. I'm bowing out of this discussion. Your response is clear how you treat your customers concerns. I'm sure others will read from your attitude what they need to.
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2022, 03:03:59 AM »

More and more these days, the leading companies are calling things the way they see them and not coddling rude customers, reviewers, etc.  If you wanted advice, answers, or help, you wouldn't have come here and started the conversation by making insulting remarks and repeating them in literally every recent thread you could find.  So I suspect you got exactly what you wanted: drama.  Fine by me.  Nothing wrong with a little drama sometimes.

Party over.  Back to your regularly scheduled program.

Mike
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