Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

But it was beaten by 4 lions  :o
Last evening it was the “Nature” competition at my local photographic club, and, not wishing to boast (well, just a little  ;)) I got second place in the print section with an image of a Grey Heron with Ring-necked Ducks, see below. I wouldn’t normally have mentioned this here but the judge is on the “Nature” selection panel of the Royal Photographic Society and an expert on such matters.
The use of Qimage Ultimate, not only to make a print, but to process and refine the raw image made a huge difference to what could have been a fairly ordinary bird shot. The ducks passing by was fortuitous and added to the composition.
The judge commented on the sharpness of the feathers, "lovely" background tones and the reflections of ducks & small rocks. The good feather definition was achieved with TTS 2-300-90%, Ex Tone with the dark green background selected. This ensured both the heron and ducks were sharpened without inducing graininess in the background.
The print was made prior to the new highlight recovery enhancement so a curve was used to improve detail in the neck feathers. This has now been discarded and Refine H/L recovery has done a better job with just one click.
The judge also commented on the print crop saying it was "correct" to have the heron well to the left and looking across the frame. Of course, this was easily achieved with QU.
Technical: Canon 350D, 70-300 f4.5 IS lens at 300mm; f7.1, 1/400th ISO 200.
I hope this is some help to QU users to show what can be done to get the most out of an image.
(http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/129206896/original.jpg)
Heron with Ring-necked Ducks at Slimbridge Wetlands Centre, Gloucestershire, UK.

Terry

Terry,
You left out one ingredient.
Your innate sense of photo scenic capture is what gives you a head start. You have more quality images from which to chose, and more to the point, you have "The Eye".

I agree, though, Qimage Ultimate took the print from a darn good print to a prize winner by judicious use of exposure settings, Fill light, and sharpening.

Thank you for the great photo to use as an incentive to improve.

Fred

Congrats Terry for a very good photo and rendition.

Congratulations, Terry, and thanks for posting your settings.  I'm going to re-work some of my heron shots from past visits to Florida, now that TTS is available.  Previously, I couldn't manage the background properly.  Again, you're showing us the way!  Appreciate your generosity.

It would have required a good selection tech with PS/Elements to achieve that, no doubt it could be done but many times the effort.

Another great shot.

Keep them comming.

Jeff g

 

Thank you guys for the nice comments.
Now, go and do likewise and put the QU techniques into practice.  ;)
Terry

Hi

Nice to see the result of QU getting such compliments.......hang it was the tog not QU  :D but as mentioned by others you have start with good seed materials :)  Great stuff

I look forward to trying the newer features and getting back on track but my main PC went west a few weeks ago and I have yet to build the new one :(  Still, hope to get this sorted by the end of November, fingers crossed.

Outstanding image Terry!
Love the examples you guys leave for us. Gives us all something to shoot for. Appreciate your work!

But doesn't this mean that the NON dark green tones in the background (specifically the rocks; also the rocks in the foreground) DID have sharpening applied?  If so, I can't see any graininess in them.  Help me out here, Terry.  Still feeling my way with TTS.

Hello Owen,
See attached below, a screen capture of the Editor showing the settings.
The "green" tone selected was a sort of muddy green and the slider was set at 90% to enable some of the more "brown" tones to be selected for sharpening exclusion.
You will also see that shadow noise is ticked to eliminate any graininess that was there in the out-of-focus areas. This feature has to be used with care so as not to soften detail on the subject. However I find that  a notch up on the radius or an increase in USM percentage can sometimes compensate for this.
I hope that helps, there are no hard & fast rules with this as every image is different; I gained experience by spending time going back over old images and trying different TTS settings so I now have a good idea where to start on new images.
An example of this is on high iso macro shots (http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate/another-perfect-use-for-tts-macro-shots/) where the technique of using a negative percentage to soften the background works in many cases, possibly combined with shadow noise ticked.
Another example would be a general scene that contains blue or even grey sky (blue sky is particularly susceptible to noise). Most of the scene normally needs sharpening but eliminating the sky prevents noise in that area.
Terry

As a Photographer, I am not in Terry's league at all, but since Terry is covering the Tone Targeted sharpening very well, I thought I might touch on the selection of the exposure adjustments, AKA the Grid squares in Refine.
I got a decent shot yesterday, and processed it.  Not bad!!!!
Then I showed it to a good friend who said the hot area top left was distracting.
So I reprocessed selecting a different grid square, the one that had the bright area.
Selecting this exposure value improved the result dramatically.

My point!
Don't be afraid to experiment. Not only did I use the exposure from a different grid selection, but I gave the extra click which sent Refine into the next level of exposure selection, Recover Highlights! This will give you, as an indicator, a RED outline around your selected grid square.

http://wa3ssz.jalbum.net/Fred%27s%20Stuff/New%20&%20Odd/slides/_IMGHeron.html

http://wa3ssz.jalbum.net/Fred%27s%20Stuff/New%20&%20Odd/slides/_MG_9724.html

If you click the left and right arrows to the upper right, you can compare images easily.


Have fun!
Fred

VERY helpful, Terry, thank you.  But here's another question which is related to my first one.

When using TTS, have you always been able to achieve what you want in one step?  Or, to put it another way, how would you apply different levels of TTS to two (or more) different areas of the photo?

It seems to me that this could be necessary for some photos.  For example, a photo's two subjects--both of which you wish to sharpen using TTS--are radically different in tone.  The background--which you wish to leave alone--is so variable in tone that it cannot be "selected" overall.

I assume that one would apply "stage 1" TTS, click "done," and then elect "create new" rather than "associate" in the dialog--and then open the new image and apply "stage 2" TTS.  Or am I overlooking something and/or making this too complicated?

In any case, the photos you've posted here and in other threads and the information you've shared constitute "case studies" which should be spliced into the Qimage manual.  Thanks again.

It did, indeed.  Great examples, Fred, and thanks for making them so easy to compare.  Another "case study" for the Qimage manual!  Seriously, wouldn't that be a great project?  Review the forums for examples like these and collect them for easy reference?  Either that, or keep updating the "Qimage challenges" thread with links to examples like these.

I've managed to learn my way around the Qimage manual fairly well, but there's nothing like "real world" examples like these to open your eyes to the capabilities of this program.  Sometimes I can't believe that these forums are free.

On the whole I have been able to achieve what I want in one step of TTS. To some extent you can apply different levels of TTS to different areas using the slider. A simple example would be say a flower with green leaves. Select the green for exclusion so the main sharpening would be on the flower colour but reducing the slider to say 90% would add a little usm to the leaves.
Using a flower example again, I have had a dilemma when say, I want to sharpen the mauve flower and the yellow stamens but not the leaves. In practice it's not been a serious problem because by trying different selections to sharpen or exclude and using the slider have got a good result.
Sometimes a 2-stage TTS would seem to be useful but life would get more complicated.  ::)
Have you a sample image as you described?
If you have, maybe I and Fred could have a go and see what we could do with the current TTS.
Sometimes it may be best to not use TTS but the plain vanilla USM.
Before the ability to soften and sharpen in one stage was introduced I did attempt a 2-stage process by making a new image with the 1st stage applied and applying the second stage on the new image.
Terry

Then you select t0 sharpen. TARGET ALL EXCEPT, and click on the leaves with the eye dropper as the exception.

Fred

Of course, even I get confused sometimes  ::)
Come to think about it and Owen's query on whether multi-stage TTS is required, the trick is to select for exception on the LEAST important tone/colour. That seems to work for most of my images with multiple colours including multi-colour backgrounds. If they are out of focus, it does not seem to matter.
Terry

Okay, thanks again.  I think that I just have to experiment a bit more with the slider.  I don't have any particular "problem" image at hand--other than (I thought) the one you posted above.  When you said that you had chosen "Ex Tone" and selected the dark green background, I initially couldn't see why the brownish rocks DIDN'T get sharpened.  Your explanation of how you used the slider cleared that up.

I also re-read this thread, where the subject of multiple or "additive" TTS also came up:
http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate/v2010-108-issuescomments-907/

Here's the strange thing: in a previous version of Qimage (and I've used them all), after adding some slight modification to a previously-edited photo, I seem to remember getting a pop-up telling me that a filter had already been applied to this photo, and asking me if I wanted to add to that filter, or replace it.  It happened more than once, but it's been a year or more, and I no longer remember the specifics.  Anyone else remember this?

Owen,
It's still there, but it depends on how you access the Image editor.
If you double click on the Thumbnail image, you are accessing the image editor presumably to do one image.
When you click DONE, it automatically saves the filter and closes the editor screen without asking because you are doing a single image.
No point in asking if you want to save the filter to one or all images in the queue.

On the other hand, if you access the Image Editor by double clicking in the middle of an image that is already in the queue, (the large preview panel image), then you are in the *batch* screen version of the Editor, and when changing anything and clicking DONE or NEXT, it will ask you and you will see the old familiar screen.
Hope that clears it up!

Fred

No, the pop-up I remember was not the "apply to all images in queue?" dialog.  It specifically asked if I wanted to add to the existing filter, or replace it.  Perhaps I'm just having a brain cramp and remembering a message box from another program.

Oh, OK that's the one that pops up when you CONVERT Images.
See no brain freeze, or cramp.
See snap
Fred

This is almost certainly what I was thinking of Fred, thank you.  I don't convert images that often, which is probably why I remembered getting the message only occasionally.

However, at the top of the dialog box (like the one you've posted), I can't select "Apply the filter to the current image only" button, even if I just have one image in the queue.  It's grayed out, just as in your screen snap.

Also, clicking the "Add to/replace existing filters" button opens the box with the sharpening & USM tools, but applying them doesn't open the image in an editing window.  I must be missing a point here somewhere.

Good morning, Owen.
Lets take this slower, so I can sense what you are trying to do.
The grayed out Current Image Only, leaving APPLY to all as the running default is the way it has always been based on this command being a batch command; and meant to convert images to make a different format, and be able to tweak something rapidly, perhaps as I do sometimes, add a little more strength to the Unsharp mask setting, make my jpg, then do it again reducing the strength, and making a second JPG.

When I do this, tweak something from "add to" existing filters, it is only applies itself to the images in the queue, *one time*. It is not a permanent change and that's why you do not see the main editor screen. That would make the filter change and that change would appear in subsequent usage of that file and image.

If you want to do a CONVERSION to a TIF or a JPG and want to apply an additional filter to one image only, you can do that from the Batch Editor screen using FILE, SAVE AS....
Then you can convert your images one by one applying different additional components to the filter and saving.

I wish I knew what you were trying to make or do.

Also, if you look carefully, when that Quick edit screen ADD TO filter, appears, many items that require actually seeing the image, are grayed or non operational. Like Levels, Curves and a few more.

One last comment.
If you right click on a thumbnail image, and select Custom filter, you then see the same "add to" type box, but this time, the original settings from the current filter show up so you can tweak them and they get saved automatically.

I hope some of this is helpful.
If not, please explain what you are trying to do. That usually gets the juices flowing.

Fred

Owen,
(http://C:\PICS\FJG_10-12-2010\forumdemo{Q}.jpg)
I found an image from Tuesday, that might illustrate being able to sharpen the red feathers, the white face, the gray beak, the very dark eye, using TARGET ALL EXCEPT.
The EXCEPT was the background.
Now, what Terry was trying to point out: with judicious use of the slider (EQ%) you can add, lessen, or even out the amount of sharpening to various tones.
You have to experiment a little and get the feel; sometimes less strength and less Radius, with 80% EQ will get the result you want, whereas, 100% EQ and a higher radius and strength was just right to accentuate what you wanted.

Fred
(http://wa3ssz.jalbum.net/Fred%27s%20Stuff/Qimage-Ultimate%20Tone%20Targeted/slides/forumdemo%7BQ%7D.jpg)

That clears it up, Fred, thank you.  I could of course see the N/A functions in the quick edit screen.  But I thought something was wrong because clicking on an operational item like "Sharpen" didn't immediately pop up the enlarged view you get in the full editor screen.  Similarly, nothing happened when I clicked the TTS eyedropper, leading me to wonder if anything was operational in the quick edit screen.  That'll teach me to experiment late at night!  Thanks again, you've been both helpful and patient.

Yep, that's what I didn't understand previously, which is why I initially couldn't figure out how Terry was able to avoid sharpening the entire background in his photo.  Got it now.

Inspired by Terry.  Stole his TTS settings, too.  Original is a jpg from a p&s shot wide-open in early-morning light.  Not on a par with Terry's, but much improved with TTS.  Thanks again to Terry & Fred for sharing their knowledge.

Feel free, you can use them any time you like  ;D
A nice shot, have you printed it?
Terry

Wait a minute! The middle toe nail on the right foot needs trimming.

Really nice.
Fred

Good one, Fred!

Thanks to both of you for your kind words.  Haven't printed this one yet, Terry, but printed a similar shot from the same day before I had Ultimate and wasn't happy with the results.  Will certainly print this one and re-work the other, then have another go at printing.

Terry, I should have mentioned that I tried various levels of sharpening (all by selecting a background tone and choosing EX TONE) and also played with the slider, but finally decided that I couldn't do better than the parameters you had generously included in your post.  Like you, I also tweaked the curve just a bit.  I also had one click of Sharpen and ticked the Shadow noise box, which vastly reduced the noise in the shadow areas.  Camera was a Canon Powershot Pro1, IMHO one of the best p&s digicams ever made, but those tiny sensors are noisy, no way around it.  Probably about a 50% crop.

Photographed in Florida, as you may have been able to infer from the background.  Fred, if you ever want to see those toenails really up close, join me sometime at my brother's home on the St. John's river near Astor.  His vast expanse of decking runs right down to the water's edge, and I can shoot stuff like this while I'm having my morning coffee.  I do not exaggerate.  When he begins cleaning a few fish from his morning's catch, the sky darkens with birds like these.  They land on the deck and walk around impatiently waiting for a handout.  The location is a photographer's dream.  I'm going down for a week in November, and am very much looking forward to re-shooting stuff like this with my relatively new Nikon D5000, a birthday gift from my generous & affluent son.

Terry & Fred, I still have much to learn about TTS, but you guys have opened the door.  Thanks again for your compliments, your patience, and your generosity.

Er, um, cleaning some fish from his morning catch??!!!

FISH!!!

Let me put it this way. If Qimage Ultimate had Food Targeted Selecting, you would click on INVITE ALL EXCEPT, and click on ME!

Thank you for the invite though. Your heart is in the right place.
On the other hand, I know for a fact that Terry loves fish and chips.... You might mention to him where the nearest airport might be.

 :D :D   Fred

I'll consider a visit if Owen shows a us picture of himself hand feeding alligators with the fish scraps. We want some entertainment you know  ;D
Terry

Not a chance.  Rule #1 of photographing alligators in Florida: USE A TELEPHOTO LENS.

All joking aside, sitting on the edge of that deck and dangling your toes in the water would not be a good idea.  Snapped the attached crummy gator shot from some distance during a boat ride just up the river from my brother's place.  The other shot is a couple of visitors getting their morning handout.