Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

With all the enthusiasm for the new Tone Targeted Sharpening focused on Raw images, I thought, before I was educated to try RAW, I was a devoted JPG man.
Let me dig out a few pre-raw jpgs that were pretty decent shots, and see what TTS does with them.
Wow was I surprised.... it brought out the best of my JPGs just like it did with Raw.

So if you thought that Qimage Ultimate was not for you because you are a JPG man, think again!
Using the Tone Targeting Sharpening on your old images will breath new life into them.
Try the demo. See for yourself.

The image below is a JPG shot as a jpg.
WOW
http://wa3ssz.jalbum.net/Fred%27s%20Stuff/Qimage-Ultimate%20Tone%20Targeted/slides/IMG_9287.html (http://wa3ssz.jalbum.net/Fred%27s%20Stuff/Qimage-Ultimate%20Tone%20Targeted/slides/IMG_9287.html)

Fred

Impressive, Fred, thanks for the examples.

Owen,
I'm retired so I don't have as much free time as Terry.  :D
He has just emailed me some samples of his old JPGS.
Wow!
I hope he does a link to a few of his.

Fred

Share the wealth, Terry!

Owen,
Here they are, you're making me work hard  ::)

http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/ttsjpeg

Fred, do you want to add your TTS jpeg's to the same gallery, just send them to me.

Terry

These are almost as good as you get from a foveon sensor, straight from camera  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Best wishes,

Ray

Hi Ray,
I'm pleased that you like the results  ;)
I whipped through these in about half an hour.
It should be noted that some of the settings used are to demonstrate the effect of the different modes (eg. pink petal flower with bees) so others can see how it works.
I'm sure we could equal your favourite  jpeg camera with a little more time spent on them  ;D
Terry

Thanks for trying Tone Targeted Sharpening on JPGs and for showing them.
I've experimented with RAW on and off, but I usually take JPGs when traveling.  Yes I may lose a few, but I'm sure that would happen with RAW shots too.
Now there is more incentive to try Ultimate.

Thanks, Terry, appreciate it.  I often shoot jpegs when they're perfectly appropriate for the end use.  I suspect I'm not alone in this.  As I said in another thread, I've often wished for selective sharpening in Qimage.  Now, essentially, that hole has been filled.  Great job, Mike.

Owen,
and of course, Mike, as is often the case with his software, done it in a unique way  :D
Terry.

Yes, and I assume that this method is simpler than developing an array of tools for selecting the area/areas to be sharpened?

Don't underestimate the sophistication behind the concept  :o
It's certainly easy to use but practice and experience is required to decide the best settings. However it's is SO easy to change from one option to another that it only takes a short amount of time to find the best one for the image.
Terry

Terry is so right..... but, Mike made this so easy to flip from one mode to another.
If you select TONE, for example. and use the dropper to pick the tone, when you change to other modes, just click the the EXCEPT TONE, or RGB, or EXCEPT RGB; so that's 4 of the six choices that keep the selected tone if that's one you want.
The Target Saturated colors or Neutrals need no eye dropper selection.

So it's easy, but you need to experiment and get to know what type of image (Face, landscape, portrait, group etc) might need a different selection.
Practice.... and it's fun!!

Fred

Hi Guys

I intend to take QU for a spin in the next few days and the TTS function looks like a winner  8) on all fronts for prints & web sized images.  The examples posted are a wide range and in some cases look too strong in sharpening effect as I see artifacts but as I read it there are slider controls that can yield the right level for the subject(s).

But in advance of my trial can I pick your brains?  In normal PP'ing say PS one may do levels, capture sharpening, resizing whether for web or print then output sharpening but as QU & TTS is new approach what is your workflow especially for web sized images  ???  In the case QSE the final sizing/crop and output sharpening for print is all default but any initial PP'ing is still by PS.

I hope you are able to offer this insight in the aim that it might shorten my initial learning appreciation of the power of TTS

TIA  :)

I'm not (I hope).  Actually, I'm in no position to judge, not being a programmer.

In the above, I meant, "simpler for the developer to implement," rather than implementing an array of selection tools which (as in most other photo editing programs) would allow selecting an area to be sharpened.  I could be completely off base here, too, though.

It's just that every time I found myself wishing for selective sharpening in Qimage, I reminded myself that Mike would have had to implement a half-dozen different selection tools, just like other photo editing programs.  Personally, I think TTS is a great way to go, since I'm not all that skilled with the selection tools in other programs.  It should be more than sufficient for my sharpening requirements, and in many cases will simplify my workflow.  I was just speculating that perhaps TTS was a bit simpler to implement than a bunch of selection tools.  Help me out, here.

Only Mike can answer that but in view of the fact the UI is simple, it is possibly the case.  ???
Terry

Hi Box Brownie,
Tell us which ones you think are overdone and we'll make an excuse of modify them  ;D
I'm still working my way up the learning curve with TTS and, to some extent, the samples shown were part of the leaning process, so not all of them will be "just right"  ::)
Yes, there is a slider but it's related to the selection of tones. At 100% there is maximum discrimination for the selected tone or, in the case of the exception modes, maximum exclusion.
In the case of a selected tone reducing the slider reduces the discrimination and a wider tone range is sharpened. The radius and % are entered in the normal Qimage way: up-down counter or directly.

About work flow: the jpegs were straight out of camera which had sharpening turned off, possibly some levels or curve adjustment and then TTS applied, all in the Q-U editor.
The raw samples were processed in Q-U, which includes some USM with camera EQ, and all adjustments made in the Q-U editor with TTS as the final stage. NB. Qimage applies edit filters in a sequence with sharpening last.
If you are preparing an image in an external editor, I would expect there to be no USM applied there but left to Q-U with TTS. I don't make any special adjustments for web images. There are options in the interpolation preferences for Anti-Aliasing with downsized images; I leave that at "Low".
Fred will  possibly add his two pennyworth too. ;)
Just plough through a variety of images, try different TTS modes and values and enjoy the results, you are likely to see your images as never before  ;D
Terry

Hi Box Brownie,
I did want to comment about you mentioning about some sample images being a little over sharpened.
You are absolutely correct about some. 
I found, and terry did too, that the impact (wow factor) diminished as the screen image was reduced in size.
The 800 x 600 size which is acceptable for posting images to the Pbase screens seem to feel softer than they were at hi rez.
So for the sake of demonstrating, some were a little over the top in order to show the SELECTIVE capability; the ability to sharpen one item and not others.

I wouldn't dare print some of them like that.

Did you notice though, on that TTS web page, clicking on the JPG folder, that I posted three before and after sets?
If you select one of those images bringing it to 800 x 600, and then ticking the PREVIOUS and the NEXT words, back and forth, you can get a really good look at "A" vs "B".

I used to have a box Brownie camera a long time ago.

Enjoy!

Fred

This might be an obvious question, but can you apply the tts more than once? In other words on a building on the left side and a park bench on the right, possibly in two different edit steps?

Mike

Hi Mike,
No is the short answer. The only way to do that would be to do the first TTS and then save-as  the filtered image. The second TTS would then be applied to the new image.

I had wondered about that early on when I wanted to soften a background (use a - %) in addition to sharpening something else. In reality I have found few cases where it would be of use and the existing options can be used creatively to deal with a high proportion of images.
Terry

I thought I'd do that with one of my recent raw images that has a very busy background, make sure Original Size is clicked below the image.
Before TTS: http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/127579841
After TTS: http://www.pbase.com/tjm04/image/127579842
Exactly the same radius & percent settings were used for each. The TTS version used Except Tone and a colour in the background, significantly different for the subjects, was used. The small image on PBase does not do full justice to the TTS 3D effect, but you should get the idea, click Previous & Next a few times.
Terry

Thanks, Terry, good example.  The difference in the white helmet is very apparent, but what's also significant upon closer examination is how TTS reveals the fine texture in the black jacket.  Toggle back & forth while looking closely at that area.  Impressive.

Just a quick note on topic here.  I developed TTS because I hate having to use lasso tools or "magic wands" to select areas, and when you use that selection method to sharpen, the results look "fake" to my eyes.  In the strawberry shot on the TTS page for example, you could have selected the strawberry and sharpened it but the effect really looks "photochopped" especially near the edge of the subject where the sharpening is going from heavy to none near the edges.  No matter how much you feather that, it's usually noticeable.  With TTS, you get to select the tones you want to sharpen and the effect naturally rolls off as tones diverge from what was chosen.  This not only takes care of edge anomalies but it also allows a sharpening curve within the selected area as tones shift around on your subject.  If you lasso a particular subject, it likely changes tone differently throughout and at a different rate at different places around the edges which TTS can account for and manual selection cannot.  And of course... clicking once with a dropper is a lot easier than using a lasso or magic wand.

Mike

Owen,
I hope you meant/see beige not white, the shirt on the girl on the right is white  ???
Terry
PS. note the hair wisps on the right, hair under the helmet, face etc. - litlle details that go towards the 3D effect.
Terry

Yep, it's clearly beige, sorry.  I noticed the wisps of hair, too.  As you say, a small detail which has an important effect.  And the photo itself is a textbook example of an image which should NOT have overall sharpening applied.  Strange things can happen to the nicely-out-of-focus background when that's done.  Thanks again for posting it.

Thanks for the feedback guys  :)

Fred, ref my nick  :D It may not have been a "Box Brownie" but my first camera, well my fathers, was a box camera and a great joy & wonder it was to take pictures with in the 1950's taking the film to the local chemist (drugstore to you cousins across the pond) and getting back the B&W pictures of family events.  I have had a camera of one type or another in my hands ever since  ;)  So the nickname came quite naturally?

Mike, yes agree entirely with the sharpening philosophy you have managed to create with TTS.  I am a real idiot when it comes to layers & masks as such my PPing tends towards (I hope) carefull usage of capture sharpening using USM LCE settings and for web after resizing Smart Sharpening.  Overall this gives me the pleasing results I like to see.  But the way TTS appears to make subject isolation imitating a narrower DoF but still ensuring the whole of the primary subject is in sharp focus looks like a wonder  8)

TTS (and I will get on and check it out by the weekend) in a way makes me think of the way the eye works ~ we distinguish distance and subject isolation in part I think by the tonal drop off between nearer/further subjects ~ may be wrong thinking but ???

The pith helmeted subject and partner make the TTS point quite nicely ~ but and sorry if I missed it are you resizing to web size before or after applying the TTS because I thought with conventional PPing the received wisdom is to make any final output sharpening after resizing and based on the feedback above TTS is in effect a step sharpening, isn't it???

For the record I always have my in camera settings to the very lowest sharpening & contrast, the others I leave at default midrange, I like to control these parameters in PPing.

TIA for any further thoughts & feedback.

Hi Box Brownie
The TTS was applied to the raw file and the Q-U used to make web/e-mail copies directly from the raw. I don't know about the "received wisdom" but I like the simple life an some received wisdom can be a myth, like always re-sizing to 300ppi for printing.
Mike would be the authority on sharpening after downsizing and whether it makes a significant difference, but you would need to make a downsized tif first and then a jpeg for web, otherwise you be losing something doing jpeg to jpeg. A lot of effort for what gain? You could do some tests  ;)
Terry

Just an idea for Qimage owners (Pro or SE)
You can download my images if you like and use Qimage Comparator with the Swop function (CTRL S).
That shows the differences far more clearly than the PBase view; I don't really know why. Make sure it's the "original" size, 800px wide.
Terry

Appreciate it, Mike.  It does indeed help to know the "innards," as you say elsewhere.  And you're certainly right that sharpening a selected area can result in something which just doesn't look quite right.  About the only time I feel forced to use a selection tool is when it's necessary to apply fill light only to a specific area, like a heavily-shadowed recessed window...a situation where overall fill light doesn't work, in other words.  Not that Fill Light in Qimage hasn't saved my bacon a couple of times!  Occasionally, though, it needs to be selective, like sharpening.