Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage-u

v2017.115   Jan 19, 2017

Priority: Med

v2017.115 offers new "overdrive" photo printing for the highest possible print detail!  Click here for details/examples: http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage-u/tech-prt.htm.

Mike

Hello Mike.

"Overdrive" sounds interesting and am keen to experiment.

Does the new function also apply to printers already with 1200 PPI? I use a Canon Pro-1000 (A2) and the "Overdrive" is listed in the QIU Interpolation Preferences but greyed out. In the Settings TAB Processing - Print Resolution there is merely a blank line above the Max - 1200 PPI listing.

Regards

Peter

No.  1200 is already considered overdrive.  You can only overdrive 600 and 720 (to 1200 and 1440).

Regards,
Mike

Thanks Mike.

Thought that may be the case.

I have the same reaction with my Canon Pro 100
Been playing with the Canon XPS driver which only goes to 600 and then Over drive.
Have you tried anything like that?
Fred

Hello Mike,

Fifteen years ago printing small text for cards on the old Epson 9000 wide format I used to feed it 720 PPI images (rasterized from vector data) where it only knew 360 PPI print resolution according the driver. The resulting text quality was better than when I used 360 PPI images. The images were made with a Risc PC and the program Artworks that used sub-pixel anti-aliasing in the video, print drivers, rasterizing, etc. Acorn's Risc-Os was quite ahead of its time then. Xara on Windows borrowed some of that technology for its vector design software. I wonder whether this QU feature has anything to do with that.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

The overdrive feature was prompted by a re-evaluation of maximum resolution capabilities of modern printers.  A few years ago, inkjet printers (and paper) could only resolve detail at the 600 and 720 PPI level.  With recent advancements in printer technology, they can resolve more detail but drivers are typically still using the 600/720 PPI settings, presumably because it is too much for just about any printing software other than Qimage.  Qimage is the only software that feeds data to the driver in managed chunks rather than just dumping the full original to the driver at once.  Dumping a full size image to the driver at higher settings like 1200/1440 PPI causes problems on wide format printers because anything larger than about 24x36 and you reach the 4GB limit of 32 bits and the driver crashes.

The native driver PPI is nothing more than a "request" by the driver: your printer will still take whatever it gets and form its native 5760x1440 dots, 4800x2400 dots, etc from that.  The manufacturers set the native driver PPI based on a multiple of the printers true native DPI that they feel is enough to render the highest visible detail.  You can still print beyond that "request" and get slightly better detail, which is what the new overdrive is all about.

Regards,
Mike

Hi,
I am printing with the Epson P800 printer. Should I print with 360 or 720ppi for the best quality prints?

Thanks
Herbert

Hi Herb,
First job is set the paper you are using. Next set quality to the highest number teh paper will allow. (Best Quality).
Yes, set the ppi input to 720. Some epson drivers require that you check a box labeled Finest Detail to get the 720.
Fred

Thanks Fred A

Herbert

Hi,
At what size print should one start to see a differences in print quality(print detail) using overdrive interpolation?

Thanks
Herbert

I really don't have the answer for that question, Herb.
We will have to either just experiment or wait for Mike to toss out some hints.

I am using a Canon Pro 100. It is already at Max 1200 so no Overdrive as yet.
I did print  something this morning on Matte, and that showed a Max of 600 and an Overdrive Option.
My next experiment will be on that Matte paper using Overdrive and normal 600. Then maybe I see some difference.
I only have 8.5 x 11 in Matte.
So we will see.
Thanks, Herb

I printed two 7x10.5 in. prints on 8.5x11 in. Epson Ultra Premium Glossy paper. One at 360 ppi and the other at 720 ppi with overdrive selected. Both prints looked very good. Both prints looked the same in detail.

Thanks
Herbert

I did the same thing on good matte paper because Matte causes my printer to print at Max 600.
The other print was in Overdrive which made 1200.

I cannot see a difference. I think I need to print two 13 x 19s.
I used the attached flower which is loaded with fine detail

Fred

I don't think you are going to see a difference on matte paper because the surface is too rough and absorbent for fine dot placement.  The new overdrive feature is good for lenticular printing, photo telescope keychains, high res line diagrams, pano (stitched) photos at relatively small sizes (one sheet), and other types of printing that require magnification or high precision.  Once you get to 600 or 720 PPI, you're not likely to notice an increase in print detail going to 1200 or 1440 (overdrive) just by casual side-by-side observation.  Close examination of sharp edges or details like tree bark though, even with the unaided eye, will reveal some differences with sharper edges and more detail on the OD prints... provided you have an image with enough pixels to begin with.

If you want to test out the new overdrive printing, keep this in mind.  You need enough pixels in the original image to render actual detail at or near the overdrive resolution.  Let's say you have a Canon or HP that uses 600 PPI as its native resolution.  And let's say you have an 18 megapixel dSLR (pretty good for today's mid level dSLR cameras), so your camera produces images around 5000 x 3500 pixels.  At that resolution, any print larger than about 6x8 inches means you have less than 600 PPI of original image information to work with.  Even printing a 6x8 inch print where you have about 600 PPI "worth of" image pixels to work with, you won't see much difference printing that at 1200 PPI because bumping the resolution that high means that 75% of the data in that 1200 PPI print is going to be interpolated.

So if you want to see a difference with overdrive, print small... not large.  Take a typical 16-18 megapixel photo that has a lot of sharp detail such as fine grass, tree bark, concrete texture, high contrast fenceposts with black/white detail like shadows, etc. and print it at 4x6 or (at most) 5x7.  Or maybe download a B/W resolution test chart (and again, print it small).  Then you should be able to see a difference under close examination of details.

Finally, unless you have millenial eyes, your eyes are likely to give out before 600 PPI so use some mild magnifiers (reading glasses) to see the difference.  The new feature is not so much about "blow you away" side-by-side comparisons but rather more geared toward making sure you get 100% out of your printer because, well... why not: produce the best prints possible and then you don't need to worry about how closely they'll be scrutinized later.  :)

Regards,
Mike

Thanks Mike.

Herbert

Hello Mike et al

This morning I attempted the first printing using version QIU v115. It was a full size A2 image. The Canon Pro-1000 was set to its normal 1200 PPI and every other setting as usual.

QIU appeared to be sending a much greater amount of data to the printer (took longer) and when the printer started to print it ejected the page after about 1cm of printing. I cancelled and restarted both the PC and the printer. Repeated the procedure and same thing happened.

I reverted back to QIU v114 and the printer worked perfectly.

It seemed like v115 was sending 4x the data to the printer.

Regards

Peter

Peter,
Good morning, I guess I am the et al until Mike wakes up
In the meantime, I know he would appreciate all the information you could give him.
For example, what type of paper, at what quality setting in the driver, (a 1 or 2 or a 3)?
What did Qimage report as the Max ppi before you activated PRINT?
No Overdrive attempted

Have a look at the snap attached.
This box seems to be questionable. Mike has his set to OFF. Mine says weak but is grayed out.
What is yours set at, and after playing with the P 1000 driver here, it changes the information being sent to Qimage.

Thanks for the help.
Fred

Hello Fred.

Thanks for your response.

Canon Pro-1000. The quality is, as always, set to highest and default paper set to " .. Platinum" but actual paper Ilford Gold Fibre Silk with custom profile (ex Profile Prism).  "Overdrive" not (unable to be) set. PPI set at usual to the Max of 1200.

Within Windows the "Prevention of Print Data Loss" is set to "Off". However the same option when viewed within QIU is, as you describe, "On (Weak)" and greyed out. Why it is different, I have no idea.

Regards

Thanks again, Peter.
I know he will ask whether you downloaded and installed the XPS driver too, and if so, which are you using?
Fred

PS
Wants to know the exact OS you are using and also the (in QU: HEL)P (hold shift key) and click Analyze, and report memory

The previous 114 limited resolution to 720 max so 114 would have been printing at 600 PPI even if the max said 1200.  With 115, you get up to 1440 so 115 will honor your 1200 PPI setting and actually send data at 1200 PPI if that is your interpolation setting.  Whether or not you can actually print at that (4x) level of detail will depend on your system (OS and memory).

I tried an A2 print on the Pro-1000 set at 1200 and had no problem on my system.  I don't have the physical printer but I was able to turn on print preview in the driver and confirm that the driver got (and showed) the full A2.  The spooler showed 1.5 GB as the spool size.

So as Fred said, in Qimage go to Help, and then hold the shift key while you click "Analyze Current Settings".  That'll show us how much RAM Qimage has to work with.  That plus knowing what OS you are running may tell us something about why your system isn't handling all the data sent by Qimage.  Setting 115 to High (600 PPI) would result in an identical print to 114... but let's figure out where the memory bottleneck is on your system so you can make use of the new setting.

Regards,
Mike

and lets not forget to check the Raw and the enable boxes as per this article

http://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/august-2006-enable-advanced-printing-features/msg31/#msg31

Fred

Thanks Mike and Fred for your responses.

I have two PCs running Windows 10. One is a 32-bit stand-alone and the other is a 64-bit virtual machine (the one I normally use for printing). Both have 4 GB of RAM (and no other applications running). The Canon Pro-1000 is connected via WiFi.

I have been through both machines and reset the default printer properties within the Windows dialogue ensuring the "enable enhanced printing features" is checked, the spooling set to raw,  "prevent data loss" set to off and detail set to "Highest".

It seems that the "enable enhanced printing features" setting will not always "stick" and so I'm never able to see a print preview.

When I go to print full A2  at 1200 the QIU  queue shows about 1.5 GB. However when the data is sent to the printer, the Windows printing dialogue shows 0.98 GB after all data is sent.

I reverted to testing printing with A4 sheets.  With the "enable enhanced printing features"  set,  the A4 would not print completely. Unabled it does.

If I'm correct, an A4 at 1200 should have a spool size of about 370 MB. That is indeed what in showed on the QIU Queue.  When sent to the printer  the windows  printer dialogue shows about 189 MB when all data is sent. The complete page is printed.

Are the discrepancies in data size between the QIU queue and the Windows queue relevant or indicating an issue?

Regards

Peter

Hi Peter
The Enable box should be Unchecked and Mike will still want the results of {HELP.... ANALYZE with Shift key down}

Mike is the expert, but the 4 gig of ram sounds light.

One comment from me.... I had to wait quite an extraordinary amount of time before the print preview from the driver opened.
I was used to seeing it almost instantly from my Epsons.
I was about to give up on it, when POP.

Fred

Hello again Fred.

Yes, as I later noted, the "enable enhanced printing features" needed to be unchecked for the complete page to be printed (at least on my setup).

I may be wrong but I understood that the "enable enhanced printing features"  needs to be set to show the print preview.

Your screen shot of available RAM (?) is almost identical to what was displayed on my virtual PC machine which is normally used for printing.

Regards

Peter

My Pro-1000 driver is working normally even at the A2 size with enable advanced printing features checked or unchecked (doesn't matter).  The print preview shows the whole print and the windows spooler shows 1.5GB for the A2 print.  I'm on Win10 x64 with 8GB RAM.

On your setup you may be a bit handicapped on both systems with one being 32 bit and the other running on a virtual machine, both with only 4GB of RAM.  If you have trouble running it at 1200 PPI on your system(s), you may want to just bump it down one notch to 600 PPI.  QU is sending all the data but it has no way to know what the driver does with that data.  The next version will have some memory optimizations that reduce the spool size when 1200 PPI is not needed.  For example, if your original image is only 250 PPI at an A2 size, there is no need to interpolate to 1200 PPI: 600 PPI is more than enough, even if your setting is 1200 PPI.

Mike

Thanks for your reply Mike.

Would appreciate your opinion on my earlier query:

"If I'm correct, an A4 at 1200 should have a spool size of about 370 MB. That is indeed what in showed on the QIU Queue.  When sent to the printer  the windows  printer dialogue shows about 189 MB when all data is sent. The complete page is printed.

Are the discrepancies in data size between the QIU queue and the Windows queue relevant or indicating an issue?"
 
For A2 sheets at 1200 both PCs show 1.5GB in QIU and 0.98GB  the windows  printer dialogue. Incidently the stand alone 32bit PC actually has only 3.1GB RAM. On the 64bit virtual PC I increased the RAM from 4GB to 5GB and there was no difference in the 1.5/0.98 result. Interestingly the Windows resources monitors (Memory TAB. tried on both machines) indicated a high level of "Hard Faults" while QIU was processing, whatever that means.

Will the spool size optimisation you mention for the next release be optional? It seems to me that the PPI setting, as is for sharpening, should be at least optionally under manual control. In my opinion it should be the user's choice like all other parameters?


Regards

Peter

So - for my Epson R 3000 the driver quality options go up to 1440x1440, and then even to 5760x1440 in what they call dpi.  But the QU Settings tab shows a max print resolution of 736 ppi. Obviously the overdrive would not affect these numbers but shouldn't there be some relationship between them that makes sense?

When I first installed my 1200 DPI Canon printer some months ago, QU showed max 600 for a while and then corrected. Obviously some action initiated a refresh.

Regards

Mel,
It appears that you have borderless printing set with that expanded resolution. 720ppi is the normal "native resolution" for Epson printers. The higher quality values in the driver are printer ink dots per inch, not the same as pixels.
Terry

Of course on both counts! Not sure where my brain was on that.  Thanks for refreshing.

Since upgrading to 2017.115, It always starts with Print to file as the default. instead of my actual system default - Epson 7900. I cannot locate the way to change this. The upgrade also lost all of my old settings. I had to set it up again. Any help here please?

Hi Colin,
You didn't say what you upgraded from what to what, but as a rule QU never changes driver settings. As a matter of fact, for many years, it was the only software that remembered them.

OK, Colin this is very easy to set as you want Qimage Ultimate  to open, but not easy by typing, so bear with me.
Feel free to ask for clarification anytime.

1) Open QU and reset anything to any condition that you wish to have present when you open Qimage from now on.

This includes the Print to Printer as well as which printer, paper, size paper, profile, default print size, etc.

2) See screen snap attached       Click on the gear wheel icon up top left, and get rid of the yellow padlock.  Snap 048

3) Recheck that all is in order, snap 050

4) Click that same icon again and a box will open asking you to choose current settings or previous.  See snap 049 and 051

5) Choose CURRENT  settings and the padlock will return, signifying that you new setup is the locked in default.

Best I can do on first try

Fred

Hello Mike,

The grass etc images you mention with several resolution levels, texture, branches, trees, so to speak. Suppose you have one of them, a 700/800 PPI image at 1:1 print size, and use the Overdrive 1200 PPI mode to print on the best gloss paper, printer heads aligned on a sheet of the paper as a first step. Which extrapolation mode and print sharpening should make the best of that Overdrive setting? I guess this should aim at the sharpening of specific cycles/mm resolutions like textures can have, lower contrasts, the method used pulling with the lower frequency ones up as well.

I have my reservations on what is so special in Ming Thein's "Ultraprint" that can not be done carefully with Qimage Ultimate and possibly some additional software. "The why not" aiming at a perfect print is what interests me and how different gloss papers behave at that level. If there is a 'mythical"depth added to the print I would not complain either.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

I've never heard of Ultraprint but in looking at the web page, I don't see that it is doing anything that Qimage doesn't do.  In fact, I don't know if Ultraprint uses a sharpening as sophisticated as DFS to avoid artifacts or if it automatically adjusts that sharpening based on original image resolution versus print size, and so on.  In Qimage, you only need to leave it set to "Fusion" interpolation and leave the print sharpening set at whatever level you normally use (I always use the default 5) and Qimage takes care of the rest.

Resolution is already limited by hardware and media and with today's printers, it comes down to the paper surface more than anything.  On the Ultraprint site, there appear to be scans of sections a little larger than 1 inch x 1 inch showing print detail.  I'm confident Qimage can do as good or better at those levels and it wouldn't require doing anything "carefully": just print.

I don't know if you've seen my own scans comparing normal 600 PPI printing versus overdrive where I show scans zoomed more than 4x more than those on the Ultraprint website (my scans are about 6mm across compared to the Ultraprint examples which are 28+mm across):

http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage-u/tech-prt.htm

As a point of calibration, if you hold those normal/overdrive prints as close as you can focus with the unaided eye, you can only discern a difference if you are told where to look and what to look for and then, just barely.  The difference only becomes obvious when you examine the print with a 10x loupe.  So for normal photo prints, Qimage already goes beyond what the eye can see.  The Overdrive option was more for people doing specialized printing like lenticular prints that require precise line patterns and prints that are viewed under magnification.

Mike

Thank you Mike,

I have seen your scans several times. Paper surfaces is what I expect will make the difference + properly aligned printers. My bare eyes will not notice much improvement but nevertheless. The Ultraprint link is there as on another forum, another thread, a claim was uttered that Ultraprint "resolved" 720 PPI on the paper. Seemed to me that someone takes the Epson driver specs as the reference, my estimation is that 450 PPI is closer to what actually appears on good glossy papers, already beyond the 300 PPI needed at a foot viewing distance. With the few target tests I did with Overdrive compared to the 600 PPI HP Z3200 mode I see some interesting things, positive mainly but I have to examine them more.

et vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Sounds about right.  In my own testing, I've found that the best papers can resolve somewhere between 700 and 900 PPI.  Any program (even PhotoShop if you take the time to upres to exactly the optimal resolution and you apply careful sharpening) can do that.  But remember that it's a bit of a battle with the hardware.  The Z3200 is 2400x1200 native DPI which means that even at 600 PPI, the printer can only lay down 8 dots for each pixel in that 600 PPI.  Each of those 8 dots can be one of maybe a few dozen colors at most so you won't be able to get full color even at 600 PPI.

When most people talk in terms of "resolve", they test with black and white alternating line pairs.  In that instance, the printer either lays down a black dot or it doesn't.  In simple cases like that (B/W res charts) you can push the resolving power of the printer because it really only takes one printer dot to produce black and you don't have to clump many together in order to emulate a certain subtle shade.

Mike