Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage-u

v2017.116   Jan 24, 2017

Priority: Med

v2017.116 includes memory optimizations and minor fixes and UI enhancements.

Mike

Hi, Mike. In both 115 and 116, I'm getting an error:

List index out of bounds (-1)

when selecting a Media Type that is way down the list. If I pick one at the top of the list, e.g. "ANY", there is no error.

Is the Media Type meaningful if I have chosen the correct profile?

Thanks.

Cheers!

Brad

The media type box is blank in the screen shot so I can't see: which paper did you pick when it did that?  Do you have any extra papers (paper presets) that you loaded?  I tested every paper that comes with the Z3200 and none of them give the error.  I wonder if it's a "user added" paper?

Regards,
Mike

Hi, Mike. The Media Type field gets blanked out when that error appears. The paper in question is one that I have added.

I must amend my report. If I choose "ANY" (at the top of the list), I get the error. No error with the second entry on the list (HP Baryte Photo Paper). The error occurs when I click to open the list and click to select from the list. The error does not occur if I click on the Media Type file and then scroll with the keyboard arrows.

Can you confirm that the media type is actually unimportant if I have chosen the correct profile?

Cheers!

Brad

The media type is important because it sets parameters in the driver for that media type like ink load, paper thickness, etc.  Is there any way I can add the same paper type that you added: so I can see if I get the same error?  I'm not familiar with how to add a paper type on the Z3200 as I don't have the printer; only the driver.  I suspect something may have gone wrong when you added the paper type and now the driver is sending corrupted media type entries.

Regards,
Mike

Brad,

Please check your private messages here on the forum.  I sent you a link to a beta: I want to see how that behaves WRT to your error message.  It's OK to post the results you got from the beta here: I just didn't want to publish this beta publicly.

After even more research, it appears that the HP Printer Utility is allowing users to create "orphaned" paper presets that either have the same name as an existing type or the same paper index as an existing type.  This causes the HP driver to return an "unlisted" paper type when querried.  The best I can do is list this as an "Unlisted" paper type in QU since this is a driver issue.  Hopefully the beta will do that without an error and will at least let you go forward.

Regards,
Mike

Good morning Mike. The beta doesn't generate the error popup any more. Some entries in the Media Type list flip the Media Type to "Unlisted", e.g. "ANY" and one that I use all the time, "BC Lyve Canvas". When I select "BC Lyve Canvas", the Media Type flips to "Unlisted" and also the Media Size flips to a different Media Size (perhaps the last size I printed on that media?).

NOTE: This flipping to "Unlisted" only happens if I select the Media Type by clicking to open the list and then scrolling and selecting from the drop down. If I click to close the drop down and then scroll with arrow keys, BC Lyve Canvas can be selected and it doesn't flip to "Unlisted".

Again, I'm not clear on the importance of this Media type selection anyway. It seems to be irrelevant to the print job. I rely on the Printer Profile selection. I either select the printer profile from the drop down or I load from the "Recall saved printer settings" button. Then select Media Size and take it from there.

Cheers!

Brad

Thanks Brad.  That's useful info.  What happens when you click the "Properties" button on the Settings tab and then drop down and select that "BC Lyve Canvas" paper inside the driver, then click "OK" to close the driver?  Does that make the media type dropdown turn blank too?

Regards,
Mike

Please give the official 117 a try and see how that works for you.  You can reply here or in the 117 thread; whichever you prefer.

Regards,
Mike

Sorry for the delay in responding--clients keep me busy!

Here is what I did:
1. On Settings panel, Printer profile, choose the BC Lyve Canvas profile. Specifically, on my system it appears as "HP Designjet Z3200ps, BC Lyve Canvas (RC, BPC)".
2. NOTE: The Media type remained as it was (another paper I just printed on).
3. Click the Properties button, which brought up the driver "Paper/Quality" settings tab.
4. Select "BC Lyve Canvas" in the Paper Type field (in the driver).
5. Click OK (in the driver).
6. NOTE: The Media type NOW says "BC Lyve Canvas".

So carrying on...
7. Click in Media Type to display the drop down, choose "ANY".
8. Media Type goes to "Unlisted" and Printer profile goes to "Let printer/driver manage color".
9. Click in Printer Profile, get a list of (recently-used?) profiles, choose "HP Designjet Z3200ps, BC Lyve Canvas".
10. NOTE: Media type remains "Unlisted".
11. Repeat steps 3 to 6 above. Media Type is now "BC Lyve Canvas".

Cheers!

Brad

Thanks.  Be sure to try the latest 117 to see if that behaves any differently.

Regards,
Mike

Brad,

Do you also have the experience that it takes a long time before the Z3200 PCL3 driver is shown after clicking printer Properties in QU's settings? And that with every change in the printer driver that calls an extra window the driver window disappears and only reappears when I click on the top bar of QU's main window, that for every change. That behavior is gone once I click that large Driver Setting Helper window away. Another thing is that my selection of Print Preview in the Z3200 driver is not always honored, BTW I made that a default driver setting so normally it is never off.

Running Windows 7 here on a 5 years old PC, QU 117, happened as well in earlier versions.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Ernst,

I'm not seeing any behavior like that with the three Z3200 drivers I've installed:

Z3200 PCL3
Z3200ps PCL3
Z3200 PS3

Also, I'm not able to find a "print preview" option in any of these drivers.

Regards,
Mike

Mike,

I went through the Z3100 HPGL2 and PCL3 driver settings and the Z3200 PCL3 and PS3 driver settings. On 3 tab windows, Paper quality (QU Printer Properties opening window)-Features-Color, in all the four drivers are the three Show Preview Before Printing choices. Screen capture attached.

Could it be that you need HP Printer Utility or an actual Z printer also installed before that choice is shown? I doubt that but can not imagine what could be wrong at your side.

BTW, for the different drivers; if I click once or twice on Settings>Properties in QU the Driver Window may not appear or the Driver Settings Helper or both not or both will and the driver window slow. It is quite irrational what happens. I do not need that Driver Settings Helper Window and I see better behavior with the driver settings when I take that away.

Because of these issues I went back to .102 again for large print jobs last week . I simply do not trust the interaction with the HP drivers in the later versions, no problems with .102


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Ernst,

Here's my screen shot for the same printer/driver.  Looks about the same but the preview checkbox is missing.  It's possible that the box isn't there if the printer is not attached (and on).

I've seen quite a lot of non-standard behavior (and bugs) in the HP Z series drivers.  For example, if you use the HP Utility to create new paper presets, they are stored in the driver but they are not enumerated to Windows as they should be.  That causes some paper types to either not appear or not be selectable in the Media Type dropdown.  Nevertheless, if you click the "Properties" button and set things up via the driver, it works identically to the old versions (like the 102 you are using).  I suppose if you've highly customized the list of paper sizes and paper presets, it could cause the driver to take a few seconds to open.  When the driver "hangs" for more than a few seconds while opening, Windows may lose the z-order of currently open windows and that might be why your driver window goes to the back.  Closing the helper window likely just restores the z-order and puts it back on top.  Other than the driver window jumping to the back in that instance, it should have no effect on settings and it should still work.

I don't see the problem that you see: the driver always appears where it should and all settings work properly.  But maybe yours is taking longer to appear and that's what causes the problem.  I'm not aware of this issue appearing on any printers other than the HP Z series (which really doesn't surprise me from what I've seen of how their drivers interact with Windows).

Regards,
Mike

I am not experiencing the delay in launching the HP Printer Driver window that Ernst has reported.

The main bug I have noticed with the HP Printer Driver is it often "forgets" what media size was sent to it. Specifically, in earlier versions of QU (before the new Live View/Queue/Settings interface), if I setup a job in QU, with a specific media size chosen in the printer setup window, and then opened the printer driver (via the printer setup window), it would often be the case that the printer driver had the wrong media size. This would be communicated back to QU, which would mess up the job layout.

I had learned to avoid opening the printer driver and just let QU push down the media size. That's why I rely on opening previous jobs as a way to load all my settings, including profile, media size, print layout, etc. Then I modify the layout as needed and run the job (without having to open the printer driver). This workflow fails if QU has a problem opening previous jobs.

Hi, Mike. Still using the 117 beta. To answer your question, it would appear "no", that does not make the media type dropdown turn blank. Here's what I did exactly...
1. Finish a job on a different media type/profile.
2. Click Properties, which launches the HP Printer Driver.
3. Choose "Paper Type:" as "BC Lyve Canvas" in the printer driver.
4. Click OK.
5. QU now shows "BC Lyve Canvas" as Media type.

Will now install QU 117 non beta.

Cheers!

Brad

Mike,

The Z3100 printer here is not on power for some time but the print preview option is still selectable. I understand you have HP Printer Utility installed so that can not be the reason that this feature does not appear. I have my printers on ethernet, not USB, USB seems to limit functionality in the driver but whether that includes the print preview option I do not know. Could also be that the drivers on Windows 10 do not have that print preview choice.

When I first close the Printer Settings Helper window there are no issues with changes I make in the printer driver. No printer driver window that disappears and choices stick.

Some 44"etc rolls can be a bit smaller than that 44" label they have, I already create a 1 to 3 mm smaller print page size to overcome issues where landscape prints just fitting on the roll are turned to portrait style. Print preview is an extra safety step to waste as little as possible in paper and inks, it shows correctly how the print page lands on the roll.

I do not see that slow appearance of the printer driver window in .102. The default + custom paper presets are the same for both versions. The quantity of them in my Z3100 and Z3200 are different too. Yet both printers and the 4 drivers have issues. If I close the Printer Settings Helper window the problems are gone. If I use the old printer driver icon at the top bar in .102 there is no issue either. I would suggest to make a setting in preferences that excludes the use of the Printer Setting Helper for QU diehards like me. Its a black window I never read because I know that changes in the driver should go along with suitable color management etc choices in QU.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

I could make that an option but I'm not confident it would help.  In fact, it could be that clicking on the helper window to close it is what reestablishes the window z-order, in which case, it's likely to be worse.  I think we should probably concentrate on why the driver is taking so long to respond as that's what is causing the issue.  It's possible that the stored driver settings are at fault.  You could try clicking the reset button to the right of the Properties button and select "All".  That will reset the driver and all paper-specific settings that get recalled when you select a media type.  It doesn't affect saved printer setups that you save using the "Save" button(s).  Doing that might clear whatever parameter in the driver(s) is causing a delay in opening the driver.

I also checked the code that is run when you click the "Properties" button versus the old "Printer Setup" button in older versions.  Both are running the same code (making the same call to open the driver).  So other than potentially fouled up (saved) settings that could be in place before  you click that button, if 117 has a delay, 102 should have the same delay because the code that calls the driver is identical.

Mike

The reset does not change anything, tried it with different drivers. It is almost 5 seconds before the driver window appears, I estimate it takes half that time for the helper window. As soon as I close the helper window (BTW have to click twice on that X) the other issues disappear.   Installed .102 again and the printer driver appears instantly and no issues at all.

On sticking settings in .117. If I take the route Settings>Properties>and make a change in the driver settings>OK and check the settings in the remaining printer icon on the top bar I see no change there. Checked it for print quality settings going from 300 to 600 PPI input request. However the Interpolation Resolution  QU shows Max-600 PPI but I expect it will print on the lower print quality level. Checking it again through Settings>Properties shows also 300 PPI input. Only if I first Reset the printer in QU the choices stick but that reset will not change the media preset to HFA Photorag that is the default for that printer driver, it stays on the old job Backlite media both in the printer driver and the QU Settings window. The print page size falls back to the printer driver default size in both the driver and the Settings window. Made that default size extra large to keep the queued images intact

Edit: printed with the Reset>Properties>helper window closed>driver settings made>OK route and all seems to stick and print but Print Preview is again ignored while it still shows as being selected.

Another edit: in .117 changed the Print Preview setting in the Printer Launch icon, OK and aborted the job, setting does not stick. Went back to .102 and that method works there.

Give me back that good old time icon at the top if it can not be solved otherwise. Could be that I am the odd one out in the world but this problem is reason enough for me to stay with .102 for the rest of my life. I am not going to install drivers, Qimage etc again as I have done this too often lately for this problem and for issues with recall jobs.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

I'll probably put the option in to turn off the driver helper in the next version anyway because, why not?  So you can give that a try.  That said, if it takes 2.5 seconds to open the helper window which is nothing but an empty window with a few lines of text, you may have bigger issues on your system than the driver.  And yes, I think you are the odd man out.  Mine opens instantly.  Fred doesn't get the delay on the same drivers.  Brad (who actually has the printer) doesn't see any delay.  So I don't know whether it could be some type of anti-malware software causing a delay or a system configuration issue, but it seems isolated to your setup.

And BTW, you still have that old time "Printer Setup" icon that was at the top: I simply made it wider, wrote the word "Properties" on it, and moved it down onto the Settings tab.  :)

Mike

Mike, I will try that one then. I added other issues to the message above and check whether they will be solved too in the next issue. I have my doubts.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Ernst,

Please let me know how 2017.118 works for you.  I changed the driver helper window "docking" so it's possible that it will work with that enabled now, but there's also an option to allow you to disable the driver helper window in Edit, Preferences.

Regards,
Mike