Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

Mike's Software => Qimage => Topic started by: na goodman on June 18, 2010, 02:48:21 AM



Title: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 18, 2010, 02:48:21 AM
First let me start off by saying I am a Mac user but I acquired a pc laptop to download the demo version of QI to try. I do have a few questions if someone could help me out. First I was thinking of running an Epson 9800 off of the pc with QI. I don't have any image editing programs on the pc but was thinking I could just save from the Mac as tiff files and open in QI. Problem so far is that I can not get QI to see the .tif file. Am I doing something wrong? Also, can someone please tell me how to get the pc and the macs all to see each other. The pc is on my network but I cannot get it to see the macs. The 2 macs see each other and I can share files but how do I get the pc to see the macs and vice versa. I'm sure it's a setting on the pc side that I just do not know. I chose to try it this way instead of running thru Paralles or Fusion. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I did get the driver installed for the 9800 and will add the 3800 if I get QI to see the files.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: BrianPrice on June 18, 2010, 06:55:21 AM
Hi

Using a PC as a print server  is probably the best way to use QI on a Mac network, there are many using it in this way. There is normally no problem integrating PCs and Macs, but  I'm not a Mac or network person so others will help you out on this.
Tiffs should be saved without compression using 'Interleaved' Pixel Order to ensure compatibility, perhaps that is the problem. You can also save time and disc space by using maximum quality Jpegs - you won't see any difference in the finished print (try it  :)).

Brian


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Terry-M on June 18, 2010, 07:07:38 AM
Quote
Problem so far is that I can not get QI to see the .tif file
Make sure Qimage is set to "see" tif's in the View menu: Thumbnail Browser\Include File Types.
Terry


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 18, 2010, 12:56:58 PM
I do have all files checked under the thumb browser. When QI opens up on the left it says template and that is the only think I can click. The folder structure is there but my tiff file is nowhere to be found. Maybe I'll try saving as a jpeg but I really don't want to do that as they degrade the more you open and save. I've tried saving the tiff to desktop, pictures, it doesn't seem to matter.When QI first opens I do have to click a page that says skip and continue or something like that. Do you think it was the way I downloaded the program. It says it is running in demo mode but maybe something is locked. I'm not getting discouraged, I just want to give it a go. Any other help is greatly appreciated, thank you.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 18, 2010, 01:20:16 PM
Hi

Using a PC as a print server  is probably the best way to use QI on a Mac network, there are many using it in this way. There is normally no problem integrating PCs and Macs, but  I'm not a Mac or network person so others will help you out on this.
Tiffs should be saved without compression using 'Interleaved' Pixel Order to ensure compatibility, perhaps that is the problem. You can also save time and disc space by using maximum quality Jpegs - you won't see any difference in the finished print (try it  :)).

Brian

Ok, it was set to interleaved but the byte order was set to Mac, when I changed that it showed up - I just dragged it in and it shows up on the right but not the left, is that correct? The other big question is since I am on Epson's do I leave the res alone and will it automatically be at 360 or a division of for output? I found the jobs where I could choose a template for say printing targets as long as I leave it at original size, otherwise do I  play with the resolution at all or will OI leave it alone as the original. I  makes sense. Thanks for your help


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Terry-M on June 18, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Quote
I just dragged it in and it shows up on the right but not the left, is that correct?
Yes, that is correct. When you drag in like that it goes directly into the Queue and shows on the Page preview.
Click the folder bar on the LHS to browse a to a folder and select. The thumbs in that folder will then build, once only, instant next time, and show on the LHS.
Images in the thumbnail browser can be added to the Queue by double clicking, or dragging. Select the image print size first, or select on the page preview when in the queue and then select the size.
Quote
The other big question is since I am on Epson's do I leave the res alone and will it automatically be at 360 or a division of for output?
YES - leave the res alone, Qimage does all that for you and interpolates to the printer native resolution as reported to Q by the driver. For Epson this is normally 720ppi for the best quality but may be 360ppi for other driver settings especially on the large format printers like yours. This feature is the what makes Qimage unique and provides the best possible print quality because the interpolation algorithms are superior to others.
The reported resolution can be seen just above the  page preview together with the printable area size.

Quote
I found the jobs where I could choose a template for say printing targets as long as I leave it at original size,
That is specifically for printing a target for making a printer profile, nothing else.
You can use "original size" if an image has an embedded one - from Custom sizes.
However, the easiest & best way to use Qimage is to forget that and use the image at it's original resolution and let Qimage deal with all the pixel re-sizing. You just have to think about the linear dimensions of the prints and specify your requirement. There are standard sizes available in the lists but custom sizes can be set. You must have the crop (scissors) button on to get the size, otherwise the image is fitted into the "envelope" with the image aspect ratio.
Keep asking your questions, we'll get you up and running to make the best prints you've ever seen  ;D
Terry.
 


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: rayw on June 18, 2010, 05:03:56 PM
Just a note to be aware of - if you have selected 'borderless printing' in the Epson driver, then the ppi reported by Qimage will not be 720, but some odd higher number. Don't worry about that. Get a roll, or sheets of the cheapest paper, and just play around with the sizing/formatting options in Qimage. Obviously use the quality media for testing the quality/colour management. When it comes to buy, get the studio edition - it has additions that are not in the demo, afaik.

I know nothing about your network problems, but 'Google', or 'Bing' is your friend. Hopefully you're using a tried and tested win OS, such as xp, or 2000. Just searching on ' windows and mac networking'  gets this, http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=54704 which looks pretty straightforward (but appearances can be deceptive  :(, but there are many others.

Best wishes,

Ray


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 18, 2010, 05:42:46 PM
Quote
I just dragged it in and it shows up on the right but not the left, is that correct?
Yes, that is correct. When you drag in like that it goes directly into the Queue and shows on the Page preview.
Click the folder bar on the LHS to browse a to a folder and select. The thumbs in that folder will then build, once only, instant next time, and show on the LHS.
Images in the thumbnail browser can be added to the Queue by double clicking, or dragging. Select the image print size first, or select on the page preview when in the queue and then select the size.
Quote
The other big question is since I am on Epson's do I leave the res alone and will it automatically be at 360 or a division of for output?
YES - leave the res alone, Qimage does all that for you and interpolates to the printer native resolution as reported to Q by the driver. For Epson this is normally 720ppi for the best quality but may be 360ppi for other driver settings especially on the large format printers like yours. This feature is the what makes Qimage unique and provides the best possible print quality because the interpolation algorithms are superior to others.
The reported resolution can be seen just above the  page preview together with the printable area size.

Quote
I found the jobs where I could choose a template for say printing targets as long as I leave it at original size,
That is specifically for printing a target for making a printer profile, nothing else.
You can use "original size" if an image has an embedded one - from Custom sizes.
However, the easiest & best way to use Qimage is to forget that and use the image at it's original resolution and let Qimage deal with all the pixel re-sizing. You just have to think about the linear dimensions of the prints and specify your requirement. There are standard sizes available in the lists but custom sizes can be set. You must have the crop (scissors) button on to get the size, otherwise the image is fitted into the "envelope" with the image aspect ratio.
Keep asking your questions, we'll get you up and running to make the best prints you've ever seen  ;D
Terry.
 

Thank you for your replies. And yes, I would be printing profile targets. I'll be in the studio later today and will give things a whirl. Thanks again, and I'm sure I'll be back with questions. The only other thing I'm not sure about and I'll have to play around with is sharpening. I do all of my sharpening which is usually thru Photoshop and by contrast masking so I'll have to see about that, I see I can turn it off completely if I need to. I just need to get these guys networked to share files. I'll work on that later too.  Thanks again.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Terry-M on June 18, 2010, 07:48:35 PM
Quote
The only other thing I'm not sure about and I'll have to play around with is sharpening. I do all of my sharpening which is usually thru Photoshop and by contrast masking so I'll have to see about that, I see I can turn it off completely if I need to.
Qimage does "Smart" Print sharpening which is based on image size and several other factors. Check out Edit/Preferences/Printing Options and click the Help button there, it explains what it does. Basically, you set the Print Sharpening such that the print has the same appearance as the on-screen image, start with the default level. Once set to your liking it can usually be left at the one setting. This means you still sharpen your image to look right on screen and then Print Sharpening looks after the print - no more adjusting the sharpening of an image to get the print right, Q takes the strain  8)
BTW. print sharpening is set to Off for target printing using the Target Saved Job.
Terry


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: BrianPrice on June 19, 2010, 05:18:43 AM
Quote
Maybe I'll try saving as a jpeg but I really don't want to do that as they degrade the more you open and save.

This is only true if the file is opened and re-closed in an editing program such as Photoshop. You can print a Jpeg as many times as you like and the file will remain exactly the same with NO degradation. I save my edited file twice - once as a Photoshop .psd file and once as a Jpeg for printing. Any re-editing is done on the Psd file.
As Terry  said, do not change the resolution before sending to QI. If you want to crop in Photoshop, leave the 'Resolution' box blank.

HTH

Brian


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 19, 2010, 01:15:24 PM
Ok. I'm having a hard time finding ICM in the driver to turn off color management because I am using printer profiles. I know where it is supposed to be but for some reason I'm not seeing it.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 19, 2010, 01:50:37 PM
Quote
Maybe I'll try saving as a jpeg but I really don't want to do that as they degrade the more you open and save.

This is only true if the file is opened and re-closed in an editing program such as Photoshop. You can print a Jpeg as many times as you like and the file will remain exactly the same with NO degradation. I save my edited file twice - once as a Photoshop .psd file and once as a Jpeg for printing. Any re-editing is done on the Psd file.
As Terry  said, do not change the resolution before sending to QI. If you want to crop in Photoshop, leave the 'Resolution' box blank.

HTH

Brian
So if I save a JPEG high quality will it have the same quality of as a tiff if I use it just for the final printing purposes. The pc will really be used as a print server and all editing done on the mac.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Terry-M on June 19, 2010, 01:52:36 PM
Quote
Ok. I'm having a hard time finding ICM in the driver to turn off color management because I am using printer profiles.
For Epson, typically:
Main tab, Colour management, ICM, No Colour Adjustment.
or
main tab, Dot in Custom then NCA from drop down list.
Terry.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 19, 2010, 03:05:43 PM
Thank you, I'll look again. Hopefully I just missed it.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Fred A on June 19, 2010, 04:30:11 PM
Quote
Thank you, I'll look again. Hopefully I just missed it.
In the 3800 the No Color Adjustment is found on the main driver screen after clicking in MODE, CUSTOM, and Color Controls.
Select: No Color Adjustment
I just checked the 9800, and it is exactly the same as the 3800 driver screens.


Fred


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 19, 2010, 04:35:52 PM
Thank you, those are the 2 machines I'm using. I'll be in the studio later and will do a print from the 9800. Thanks again. I'll let you know how it goes.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 19, 2010, 09:58:58 PM
Quote
Ok. I'm having a hard time finding ICM in the driver to turn off color management because I am using printer profiles.
For Epson, typically:
Main tab, Colour management, ICM, No Colour Adjustment.
or
main tab, Dot in Custom then NCA from drop down list.
Terry.
Ok, I turned off color management because I am using a profile but what confused me is I cannot chose ICM and not color management so I just turned it off and ignored ICM is that correct. I don't want to double profile. The last question I have of the evening (I hope), I'm a little confused over the quality. Is just the superweave the difference between quality 4 and 5? I'm going to be printing to Innova Cold Press and what I used to do was just pick 1440. I know I'll like this once I get the hang of it, it's just getting up to speed that is a little frustrating. But hey, I just hooked up a 2nd monitor off of the pc and changed the resolution so I'm getting there. Have patience, I'm a Mac person. I'm just going to change rolls and then off to print. Maybe I should wait for the ICM, no color management question first. Thanks for being so patient.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Terry-M on June 19, 2010, 10:22:58 PM
Quote
what confused me is I cannot chose ICM and not color management so I just turned it off and ignored ICM is that correct.
I think so, Epson drivers vary as to the interface but they all seem to use the term "No Colour Adjustment", that is the setting for driver colour management off.
Terry.
PS I've attached screen shot for the 4880 driver which is probably similar to yours.
T


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 19, 2010, 10:37:37 PM
Quote
what confused me is I cannot chose ICM and not color management so I just turned it off and ignored ICM is that correct.
I think so, Epson drivers vary as to the interface but they all seem to use the term "No Colour Adjustment", that is the setting for driver colour management off.
Terry.
PS I've attached screen shot for the 4880 driver which is probably similar to yours.
T
Yup that's what mine looks like. I'll make a print soon and let you know how it comes out. I'm getting excited, I sure hope this solves all of the problems I won't be having between Apple, Adobe, and Epson. I can't believe I would ever even think of using the pc for a print server but it has to be easier and more consistent than the hoops I have to just thru now to get reproducible prints. I sure hope this works.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 20, 2010, 01:52:51 AM
Quote
what confused me is I cannot chose ICM and not color management so I just turned it off and ignored ICM is that correct.
I think so, Epson drivers vary as to the interface but they all seem to use the term "No Colour Adjustment", that is the setting for driver colour management off.
Terry.
PS I've attached screen shot for the 4880 driver which is probably similar to yours.
T
Any thoughts - it says it is printing but it is not. Just sitting in the printer que saying it is.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Terry-M on June 20, 2010, 07:43:37 AM
Quote
Any thoughts - it says it is printing but it is not. Just sitting in the printer que saying it is.
What is saying that, Qimage or driver?
If Qimage has finished processing, see screen snaps attached of progress bar, then it's probably a network problem.
Terry
PS. Qimage sends a lot of data to the printer compared to "normal" printing, so if the network is slow you may have to wait  >:(
T


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Fred A on June 20, 2010, 09:24:39 AM
Na Goodman,
Quote
what confused me is I cannot chose ICM and not color management so I just turned it off and ignored ICM is that correct.
This is correct.
You activate the No Color Adjustment adjustment setting by selecting ICM first.
Then ICM shuts off when you select NO Color Adjustment.

Maybe Brian can help with the Mac interface?
Fred


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 20, 2010, 01:53:39 PM
Na Goodman,
Quote
what confused me is I cannot chose ICM and not color management so I just turned it off and ignored ICM is that correct.
This is correct.
You activate the No Color Adjustment adjustment setting by selecting ICM first.
Then ICM shuts off when you select NO Color Adjustment.

Maybe Brian can help with the Mac interface?
Fred
Everything is set up and I'm ready to print. The job goes to the printer and it says it is printing but it is not. I had to get the job done so I switched over to the Mac and printed. It worked. The only thing I can think of is this pc does not have that much memory and maybe that had something  to do with it. I'm going to just go down and print something small and see if that gets it going. I don't want to buy more memory until I can at least get a print from the pc to the printer. I did delete all the jobs from the que so at least I'm getting to know my way around the pc and QI. I just really want to see a print. Does the memory thing make sense to you?


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 21, 2010, 01:44:55 AM
Ok, so I sent a smaller file to QI and it printed fine. But comparing it to a print straight thru the driver, the print thru the driver is smoother and looks more continuous tone looking thru a loop. It may be caused by the sharpening so I thought I would send it thru again with sharpening turned off in QI. I did print out the manual so hopefully that will answer some of the questions I have. Thanks everyone for all your help. If you have any suggestions about the "graininess" I'm seeing, I'm all ears.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Terry-M on June 21, 2010, 07:33:17 AM
Quote
Does the memory thing make sense to you?
You need to give us some numbers. What is the  spec of the PC? You still did not make it clear whether Qimage finished processing with the larger print? I still suspect the network stalled on the large amount of data; can you monitor data flow on your network?
What was the print size?

Quote
But comparing it to a print straight thru the driver, the print thru the driver is smoother and looks more continuous tone looking thru a loop.
What about at normal viewing distances? A print direct from a driver will look soft, how does the prints look compared to the screen view of the image?
Tell us some numbers, image size in pixels print size, driver quality settings?
If Qimage is downsizing to send to the printer, the anti-alias setting may be affecting the appearance. In the Interpolation preferences, what is set there. I prefer the "low" setting, higher anti-alias means softer too.
The other thought is that if printed directly via the driver, there was no colour management therefore the printer profile was not active. The gradation of tone will be affected by the printer profile, so is that what happened?

Quote
If you have any suggestions about the "graininess" I'm seeing, I'm all ears.
Is this image noise or just the ink jet dots? If the latter, perhaps the printer quality setting is too low.
Terry



Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Fred A on June 21, 2010, 09:16:34 AM
Quote
If you have any suggestions about the "graininess" I'm seeing, I'm all ears.

Na Goodman,
We are trying to help, and one thing that would help us to help you would be having the image in hand plus what Terry asked for: Print size, paper type, and printer settings.
Would it be possible to email the image you are trying to print from to me (and to Terry) so we can see if there's noise, or insufficient resolution.. whatever?

My email address is wathree.ssz@verizon.net

Fred


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Terry-M on June 21, 2010, 10:27:09 AM
Quote
Would it be possible to email the image you are trying to print from to me (and to Terry)
See may PM to you for address.
Terry


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 21, 2010, 01:15:13 PM
Quote
Does the memory thing make sense to you?
You need to give us some numbers. What is the  spec of the PC? You still did not make it clear whether Qimage finished processing with the larger print? I still suspect the network stalled on the large amount of data; can you monitor data flow on your network?
What was the print size?

Quote
But comparing it to a print straight thru the driver, the print thru the driver is smoother and looks more continuous tone looking thru a loop.
What about at normal viewing distances? A print direct from a driver will look soft, how does the prints look compared to the screen view of the image?
Tell us some numbers, image size in pixels print size, driver quality settings?
If Qimage is downsizing to send to the printer, the anti-alias setting may be affecting the appearance. In the Interpolation preferences, what is set there. I prefer the "low" setting, higher anti-alias means softer too.
The other thought is that if printed directly via the driver, there was no colour management therefore the printer profile was not active. The gradation of tone will be affected by the printer profile, so is that what happened?

Quote
If you have any suggestions about the "graininess" I'm seeing, I'm all ears.
Is this image noise or just the ink jet dots? If the latter, perhaps the printer quality setting is too low.
Terry


Here are the specs of the laptop: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7100 @ 1.80GHZ 982MB of Ram(can upgrade to 4G). Looks like it is an 80G harddrive with 57.8 free. It is an Lenova ThinkPad  T61 running Vista Business. The print I was trying to do that said it was printing but was not was 24x28 to be printed on Innova Cold Press at 240. I was able to send an 8x10 and everything printed fine. The one I saw "graininess" on actually got sized down to 4x6 because I didn't notice original size wasn't checked. Don't you think if I max out the ram at 4G this machine should run QI just fine. Comparison's were both made with the profile in tack. Color was fine. I think I can figure it out it's just throwing me when I see a different res number than what I am sending to the printer but from everything I have read I shouldn't worry about it because QI is handling it all in the background. I really just need to always get the best print possible for professional use. Please let me know if you think this machine will work as a print server before I go any further with it and upgrade the memory. I could also always put a bigger hard drive in it if I needed to.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: tomc on June 21, 2010, 01:51:51 PM
Quote
Here are the specs of the laptop: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7100 @ 1.80GHZ 982MB of Ram(can upgrade to 4G). Looks like it is an 80G harddrive with 57.8 free. It is an Lenova ThinkPad  T61 running Vista Business. The print I was trying to do that said it was printing but was not was 24x28 to be printed on Innova Cold Press at 240. I was able to send an 8x10 and everything printed fine. The one I saw "graininess" on actually got sized down to 4x6 because I didn't notice original size wasn't checked. Don't you think if I max out the ram at 4G this machine should run QI just fine. Comparison's were both made with the profile in tack. Color was fine. I think I can figure it out it's just throwing me when I see a different res number than what I am sending to the printer but from everything I have read I shouldn't worry about it because QI is handling it all in the background. I really just need to always get the best print possible for professional use. Please let me know if you think this machine will work as a print server before I go any further with it and upgrade the memory. I could also always put a bigger hard drive in it if I needed to.

I have a T61p which is like your T61 but with a higher resolution display. It works well with QImage and printing to an Epson R2400.

If you have enough paging (virtual) memory, QImage should work for you. It would go much faster with more ram and that would be a cost effective upgrade. No need for a larger hard drive since you are doing your edit work on another computer.

Mike has a couple of articles that quite likely will help your large printing problem. They are February 2006 and April 2006 at:

   http://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/40/


Tom


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 21, 2010, 02:08:32 PM
Thank you, I'm looking over the articles right now. Oh, I should also mention I gave up trying to network the mac's and the pc and plug the 9800 directly into the pc. After talking to 2 different pc tech people I know, they both agreed it would be easier just to drop the files to a flash drive and transport them to the pc.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: Terry-M on June 21, 2010, 02:27:14 PM
Quote
Don't you think if I max out the ram at 4G this machine should run QI just fine
In addition to what Tom has said, in Qimage, Help, click Analyze Current Settings with the Shift key held down. That tells you the biggest file Qimage can handle on your system - it's a Windows thing realated to memory management. A bigger ram does not always help but as yours is only  a nominal 1GB, some more is likely to help.
On my Vista laptop with 2GB ram, the Analyse Settings gives 1544 MB.
Your 24x28 print at 360ppi would give ((360(28+24) x(24x360))x3 = 261MB (the x3 is for R-G-B); at 720 ppi it gives 1045MB. Both of these should be well within Qimage's capability on Vista.
If Qimage did not have enough resources it would tell you before attempting to process.
From this, and you a haven't yet told us if Qimage finishes processing, I assume it did, the data is clogged between the pc and the printer.
I see from your latest post, you are doing the best thing: eliminating the network  :)
Terry.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: na goodman on June 21, 2010, 02:43:46 PM
Thanks for the keyboard tip, that will help. I'm actually what would be considered a "power" user on the mac but the pc side I'm just getting used to it. It really is running good but I do miss the keyboard shortcuts - I know they are there, I just have to figure them out. I've already come across some so I think I'll be ok with more use. I'll try processing a larger file later and see what the machine can handle. Any other tips are always welcome. Thank you.


Title: Re: A Few Qimage Questions
Post by: BrianPrice on June 23, 2010, 07:09:07 AM
Hi
I don't think you should give up on networking the PC, there is no reason why it should not work. Try this (if you haven't already).

Start>Control Panel, then double-click on 'Network and Sharing Center'
Make sure 'Network Discovery' is On, then try 'Connect to a network' or 'Set up a network connection'

To share a folder right-click on it in Explorer (Windows Key + E) and choose 'Share'.

Right-clicking is something some Mac users don't automatically think about, in Windows programs there is always a context-sensitive right-click menu - QI is no exception.



Brian