Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

Qimage is working well, managed to figure out most of it - but I can't figure out how to get the borders even. I've played with all the settings and one of the shorter borders is always wider. How do you get the borders even on all 4 sides? I've tried to illustrate it. It doesn't seem to want to attach.
Thanks,
Weezy

Weezy,
I'm puzzled by your attachment as there is no image as such and I can see 3 borders; black, white and black around a white area whereas Qimage will do 2 borders  ???
See my attachment below which shows the page preview with an image and 2 borders; note the dimensions are mm.
Are you in fact talking about page margins rather than image borders? If that is what you mean, page margins can be centred in the Page formatting/Margins menu.

That was/is a very useful illustration.  I have not done boarders yet, I am sure that will be helpful.

Jeff 

See, Terry?  I consider his as only two borders.  It is exactly what I want to do without drawing in in PS.

The white inside the two black lines is not a "border;" it is paper white.  The second black line is the other "border."  I was just screwing with this the other day--obviously, to no avail.

Unless you have done this already, my next trial is to use the "black line" in the page formatting.  Then, surround that with wide white then .03 black borders.


Seth

That is a very thin line - I use it frequently.
To have more than the 2 Qimage borders and not use another editor, there are 2 methods I know of:
1. Make a cutout, see 1st attachment below, ok. if you are using the same borders frequently.
2. Use plain colour images as backgrounds, see 2nd attachment below; this has a plain white image, a textured image and borders as well, 5 altogether, is that enough?  ;)
It looks like it's fiddly but it took me about 5 mins to do that example including making a plain white image; I already had the textured one.
Terry.
Edit, sorry about the spelling it's "multiple" for the second attachment - said I did it quickly  :)

Now those are borders!!
We use Qimage and spend the 600.00 we saved by noy buying CS4 on a good lens!
:D
Fred

Sorry, Fred, I just can't pass this up!!  (I am messing wth you.)

1.  A good lens for $600?  Is it stolen?  Is it gray market?

2.  You're spending $600 on PS?  Waaay too much <GGGG!>

Seth

Well, to rephrase, 600.00 toward a good lens, although I have 3 "L" lenses from Canon, 2 of which were 400.00 each and one was 89.00. The 89.00 lens is what everyone used to call The wonderful Canon blunder. A 50mm "L" lens F.1.8. Sharp as a tack.
I also have lenses for 1400.00 so I know what you mean.

Buying CS4 or CS3 with all that it can do, and for what digi photogs really use of it, is like fishing with a bamboo pole, a string, a safety pin for a hook, and a worm, and fishing off the back of your yacht!   :P ::) ;D

Just my HMO. :D
Just having some fun too... :D
F

That is how the white borders around the print look! One side of the white is wider than the other and it's driving me crazy! I want 4 equal white borders around the print! I dislike borderless images. I can get 4 equally spaced white borders if I print from CS3. CS3 is a little funky on the color and doesn't print what I see on the monitor (calibrated) Quimage and Adobe Indesign print the right colors.
The only prolem that qimage has is those unequal borders. I've found the input for the border width and tried every possible combination and the damn borders are still unequal. How do I get four  1/8" WHITE borders around the print?
Tnaks, Weezy

No-one else has the problem as you can see from the screen shots posted so there's something we are not understanding about what you are doing.
Can you post, as an attachment a screen shot of the right hand side of the Qimage main screen so we can see both the page preview with the image and the border settings? In fact the whole rhs of the main screen to see all settings.
Hopefully we may see the problem from that or at least ask some more questions.
Just one question, obvious I know, you haven't already got a partial border on the image already - just checking.
Terry

It sounds to me like you are mixing up borders and margins.  And when you say four borders, I think you really mean one border.  A border is an area around the entire photo.  So if you specify a border of 1/8 inch, you'll get a 1/8 inch border on all four sides of the photo.  Where in Qimage are you specifying a 1/8 inch border?  What's your print size?  What's the paper size?  Did you check "edges": otherwise how can you tell how wide the borders are if they are white?  I think what you are looking at is your printer having a printable area that is not centered, but I can't tell by the info you've given.  Can you post a screen snap of the Qimage main window (with all panels open) right before you print?

Mike

I think you mean margins around the print and not borders from Qimage. Am I guessing right?
What printer?
Sounds like you just want a centered print with a 1/8 margin all around.
I would do what Mike said, plus turn off all the borders in Qimage. Then we can deal witn print placement on the paper, which is my guess what you are asking for.
Fred

My image in Editor page shows that there is border top/bottom .12 and .16 on the sides (white space). When I try to put a border around my image .02 and .02 (much smaller than white space) it makes a print area to shrink. Why, if there is already a white space around my image? Does border(s) become part of an image?
Thank you!

That is normal and the values will depend on the printer you are using.
However, these numbers are the PAGE margins and outside the printable area.
On the main screen, just above the page preview, the printable area, as reported by the printer driver, is shown. It will always be less than the page size unless  "borderless" is used (another ball game altogether).
If you go to the Page Formatting/Margins menu, the details are shown there.

From what I can gather from your post, you are filling the page with the image (it's useful to know paper size, printer & print size in such queries).
So the simple answer to this question is "yes".
Qimage image BORDERS (not the same as page margins) can be applied as B or +B. One keeps the print the same size as specified, the other adds to the print size.
If the image is already filling the page printable area, you can't use B+ of course, so Qimage will automatically apply as B.

I hope that helps. I hope weezy, who started this thread, reads this too because I think his problem is related to understanding printable area, the difference between page margins and image borders, and, page margins are not always equal around the page.

Terry

I think there might be two folks with the same question in this discussion.
That's good, but the basics need to be filled in:  What printer, what size paper, what size print are you trying to make.??
If either or both of you would be kind enough to supply that basic info, we can simulate what you are doing and supply the correct answers.
If either of you is using FIT TO PAGE as a size, then the margins are controlled by your printer and how much printable area they allow on each side.
That's why we need to know facts and details.
Please help!
Fred

I hope this discussion keeps going.
With Pictures .. a Big Plus!

This is so much better then yahoo!!!!!

Ya Me

But, that's the way I learned to fish in survival school.

No matter what industry, nobody uses ALL of PS' properties.  There are just certain things that PS does for digital that QI does not/cannot do.  I just as soon QI stay a printing program and not make it as complex as a photo editor.

I mean, even Adobe put in crap in PS its not very good at, like pano (I use Panorama Factory) and HDRI.

Sorry, I meant margins. That comes from years ago when you were asked if you wanted borderless prints.
I have a Canon6000I, and I'm using Epson 4 X 6 paper. I've tried center print, fit to print, changed the margins and still can't get 4 equal margins on a 4 X 6. Changed the print size to 5.85 x 3.85. Still no equal margins. The top margin is always wider. The printer is set for 4 X 6 paper. I tried to manually place the image today, but didn't have time to finish. Is manual the way to go? Qimage is the only program that does this.
Weezy

I think some of us guessed that.
And again, if it's like my Canon printer, the page margins are not equal so what you are seeing is what the driver is telling Qimage.
However it is possible to centre the printable area on the page from the Page formatting menu - Margins, but you need to be aware that will reduce the maximum size of print on the page.
Terry.

I have a similar question and thought that I should add it to this thread rather than start a new one for the same question/answer.  I have an Epson 4880.  I would like to print an image cropped at 8.5 x 11 on an 8.5 x 11 paper with even margins.  I don't care the actual size of the margins, only that they are even around the print.  In landscape mode, the best I have done is the left and right side are equal, but the bottom is larger margin than the top.  I have tried the "center on physical page" option, with the with the optimal or centered print placement.  The difference between optimal and centered moves the wider space from top to bottom.  In the Q Image preview the image appears centered but on the Epson printer preview of the same image, the margins are unbalanced.

Using the Center on physical page option, it adds additional margin to the top of the page (portrait mode) and the printed top and bottom are equal.  There is no adjustment made to left or right side, and my printed page is uneven.

I am sure this is cockpit error on my part, but I just can't seem to figure it out.

The second part of the question is similar, I would like to print my normal cropped 4x6 images on an 8.5x11 page centered to the maximum print size available.  Again, I don't care about the actual printed image size, just that the boarders are balanced, top and bottom, right and left.

Thanks for your help!!

Bill

Let's take this a step at a time.
You want an 8.5 x 11 print on 8.5 x 11 paper. That says you must print in borderless mode. No margins!
There is no centering of the print, except for your print cropping where you can center the subject etc. The print runs from edge to edge in both directions, so what are we looking for?
Let's leave the 4 x 6 until we get this straightened out.
Fred

Just to add to Fred's question:
Can I suggest you supply some numbers. Look in the Full Page Editor on the Size-Position tab. That tells you, on the RHS, the space to the edge of the page.

That seems to indicate that the 4800 does not have equal page margins.
See what else you can tell us so we can make progress on your problem.
Terry.

Sorry,

Fred A - I guess that I didn't explain myself in sufficient detail.  I want to print an 8.5x11 ratio crop on an 8.5 x 11 paper not boarderless.  I would like it to be as large as it can be with boarders, I don't care about the exact size of the print or boarders, just that the margins are symetrical.

Terry M - I can't find the Size position tab - the full page editor is launched when you double click on the selected image in the right hand panel, correct?  Navigation assistance requested.

Thanks, I really appreciate your help.

Bill

I should have said Size/Location tab.
The Size/Loc tab (and Crop tab) are on the right hand side of the FPE screen. You don't double click the image, just select with one left click and the appropriate dimensions appear in the boxes.
See attached screen snap of the Size Location tab below, click on it for a larger view. My dimensions are in mm btw.

You might want to check your driver settings too. Some drivers will have one larger page margin for paper feed purposes; this can usually be set to give maximum print area and equal page margins.
The Qimage Page Formatting menu tell you what the driver margins are.

Keep it coming
Terry.

Bill,
This is the way it works.
The printer has preset housekeeping margins that belongs to Epson. In your case. .56 inches on the right side of a landscape 8,5 x 11 page.
Therefore, in order to center a large print (as big as you can make with equal margins,) you will need to have the long side of the print 10.33 minus 1.12 inches.
Then whehn you click center in the Full Page editor, you will get .64 on either long end and .15 on the short ends.
Then you could trim the print on the long ends and get what you want.
That will work.. I think?

I said
At great expense  ;D I downloaded the 4880 driver and installed it.
I think this is the answer, there are options on Printable Area, you need Maximum or Centre. The latter will give a much smaller area than maximum.
See screen snap attached.
Terry.
PS. "Maximum" has equal margins for all practical purposes too.

It looks like that works out the same as manually doing it, but nevertheless, I still see trimming two sides.
Can you make all side margins even?

Yes. See screen snap from Qimage margins menu. I you click Centre, then they become exactly equal at 0.1167 ins
Terry.

What does FPE show?

The same wrt margins.
See also screen snap attached of printable area
Terry.

Fred,

I do a lot of performing arts plays - I photograph during the final dress rehersal, choose and process about 50 images, then print them and deliver the prints the next day for mounting on the auditorium foyer walls prior to the first performance the next day.  It makes for a long night and I do not want to have to handle or trim the images after they are printed - just package and deliver.  Because these images are viewed by a lot of folks during the three days of performances, I want them to look as professional as possible.  Because I don't make a lot on a per print basis, I want to keep my costs down as best I can - no wasted ink for borderless, and labor and time to a minimum - no trimming.

Terry-M, I found the Printable area option - my maximum is greyed out and not selectable.  I will give centered a try later this evening - I just received an order for some images and need to get them done so my lab in CA can ship today.

I really appreciate all of your guidance and support.

Bill

Terry,
The largest printable area I can get is 10.997 with borderless and Max turned on.
Max alone is 10.776.
You are showing  11.448 inches on an 11 inch paper.
You got me.

Ok, then follow Terry's guidelines. I can get even margins top and bottom, and even margins of the side to side, but the two pairs are different sizes, leading me to believe that one pair needs trimming.
I made an 8.5 x 11 cropped image to match what you have...
I think Terry's uncle is Merlin!!

Fred

BTW, my math is not my claim to fame. 
I would stick with Terry

and
No, I just got the page size wrong 11.5 x8 ins  :-[
But you get the idea.

Maybe it's related to some other setting in the driver, page size even?

Terry.

Are you happy with top and bottom borders the same and matching; but sides are matching too, but not the same size as the top and bottom.
I think Terry and I are on the same page, but I was striving for equal; margins on all 4 sides, and he says, two equal sides and two equal sides is what you want, even though the left and right margins are larger than the top and bottom.
It's up to you....
Then you don't trim as long as you accept the above.

Good luck,
Fred

I've just checked Standard-Centered.
The Full Page Editor reports, in Portrait mode, 0.55" top, 0.56" bottom and 0.12" at each side. Qimage says it can't center exactly due to the driver.
Terry.
PS. that's using fit to page, the biggest size possible on the page.

I think I figured it out!
Set driver to Max size.
That gives you a printable area of 10.776 x 8.266.
Then I went to custom and ordered a print size Fit to Page. Crop scissor on.
I get 10.77 x 8.27 inches and margins after clicking CENTER of .12 all the way around.

This works because I didn't adhere to your 8.5 x 11 print ratioo.

Fred

Here's the screen snap.
See the even margins all the way around.

Depending on the printer, experiment with creating custom paper sizes in the printer preferences/setup.  QI knows how much is not printable in the printer and shows it t the top.  BUT, the printer does not know what size paper you really put in there.  It may help.

Top and bottom equal, left and right side equal is OK all equal preferred with the crop ration 8.5x11.  I cropped to 8.5x11 ratio thinking I will get even margins when I fit to page.  Easier said than done.  I have managed to get the opposite sides equal, but not sure it is the largest image.  How are you determining if the printed image is centered and boarders even without an actual print?  Does the Epson preview represent the actual paper area and margins?

Thanks for all of the ideas, I really appreciate your help.

Bill

Just click on my image to enlarge it from my previous post. It is the Full Page Editor screen in location tab. See the margins are all equal at .12

That is impossible!
The 8.5x11 page has a ratio of 1.294  (long side divided by short side)
If for example, you place an image on that page with a 0.5 inch border, the image is 7.5x10. This is a ratio of 1.333

Looking at the other way round, an image with the 8.5x11 ratio (1.294) with say 10" dimension on the long side, the short side will be 7.73"
This is equivalent to margins of 0.5" and 0.385".

It's all in the maths  ;)
Terry.

But the image is not the same "ratio" as 8.5x11
I think that Bill said he could not get "maximum" printable area on his driver (greyed out) so his margins will be somewhat larger. He didn't tell us those sizes  :(
Terry.

Right

I made the largest centered image with same size margins on all 4 sides.
I think that is what he wanted in the first place. Somewhere, he said after we spent a lot of time trying to keep his 8.5 x 11 size print, that the actual print size wasn't that important, but equal margins was the goal.
Fred

I made this in Qimage in 10 seconds.. I think it's what you really wanted.
All of a sudden it came to me.
It's as large as possible on the 8.5 x 11 paper, and is actually an 8.5 x 11 print with equal 1/4 inch borders all teh way around.
If this looks good to you, reply and I'll give you the 10 seconds worth of steps.

Fred

Sorry, haven't been around to catch up. Yes, that even margin is what I want, but on 4X6. Since I usually mat 8X10 using 8.5x11 paper, the margins aren't so bothersome.
I also just looked up when I bought Qimage. It was September 2007. The HD I normally use for Qimage isn't set up to go online. I simply don't want to be bothered by the HP laser or Adobe about updates or wanting to download this and that. So I'm a couple of years behind in updates. Can I download the newest version and use it?
Thanks, Weezy

Yes, from here:
http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage/downloads.htm
However note what it says for registered users (like you), see attached screen snap.
You will need a new PW and unlock code if you not updated for 2 years.
It really is worth updating more often  ;)
Terry

Just sent email for re-registration. Thanks

Got it downloaded and installed - quite an improvement. Now I see the margins are the printer's doing.
There is just no place in the Printer software to specify margins.  And I like that printer - it will print on almost anything and not spit out gibberish like I've had HPs do.
OK - so how did you get that margin? I mostly print 4X6 for keepsake or show.
Thanks,
Weezy

I have a little Canon i320 and I think the driver may be similar to yours. There's nothing like Epson's where there are "standard" and "maximum" printable area options.
You are stuck with whatever the page margins are for the printer and on my Canon, the bottom, in portrait mode is a little bigger.
Try going to Page Formatting, Center on Physical Page, that will get opposite sides equal. To get equal all round, specify additional margins to make them equal.

Another alternative is to specify "borderless" in the driver, set Qimage in Page Formatting to "disable expansion/overspray". If you definitely want borders, set those in Qimage as image borders. I think this what Fred did in his earlier post Reply #45.
However, when I looked at the print preview on my Canon i320, it looked asymmetrical  :(
You'd have to try a test print to see what actually happens.
Terry.

Hi Fred,
could you be kind to share you method? Every new method can shed some light on this very important topic.
Thanks

I would be happy to help in any way.
Since that discussion was almost a month ago, and I am very, very old, could you refresh the topic for me please?  ;D
As best as I can gather from looking at the posts, some wanted a print as large as possible on 8.5 x 11 paper and get equal margins.... is that the information you need?

Fred

Yes,that was the topic.In post reply nr 45 you did something magical in 10 seconds  :)

Silviu

Silviu,
You are trying for the largest print possible with even margins on 8.5 x 11 paper?
I need to know what you are trying to achieve.
What printer?
Fred

Yes Fred,I'm for the largest print with margins on a A3 paper.The printer is a Canon 8300.I understand that there are limitations on the driver witch prevents to have equal margins but maybe I just miss something and I was hoping to apply your method for this issue.
Thanks,
Silviu

I am trying to download the driver for the iPF 8300. This way I can be a little more accurate.
That's a big printer!!!!

Zowie! 36 KB /sec.     Canon really doesn't want to give away drivers.
Fred

Canon would not let me install the driver until I installed a firmware update to your printer, so I used the next best I could find., ipf 6100

As you can see by the screen snap, I have A3 paper and the largest print with equal margins.
16.30 x 11.46 with .12 inch margins all the way around.
I hope this is what you wanted.

In Qimage Page set up (printer driver), I selected Heavyweight Glossy Photo Paper II. (Just wanted a quality paper selection)

Paper size A3; (in driver page setup tab); Paper Source, I selected Manual with 3mm margins.
OK out of the driver, and back to the main screen of Qimage.
From the Print size selection, select FIT TO PAGE, add your image with crop scissors on of course, and there it is.
To check your location on the page, and that you are centered, just go to the Full Page Editor screen and click the LOC tab.
See my screen snap.

Hope this helps.
I have to go out for about 2 hours. (Dr appt)  Told you I was very very old!
Should be back by 9:00 am EDT

Fred

Thank you very much Fred for the effort.
I don't have that option on my driver,just Cut Sheet and Roll Paper.If I choose Paper Source:Cut Sheet ,Page Size:A3 size then I can't center the image by following your steps.All I can do is change the numbers in  Page Margins(Page Formatting menu).
If I choose Paper Source:Roll Paper,Page Size:A3 and check borderless printing then it works.

Thanks again,
Silviu

Sorry that I cannot get your driver to be accurate, but I would try this approach.
I would do borderless, but add a Qimage .12 (or whatever size you want) border to the image, in white of course, using the B setting.
This will simulate a .12 margin all around the print, and will give you even margins.
The problem with the Canon driver I am looking at, iPF6100. is that borderless is not an option unless roll paper is selected.
Therein lies the mystery.

Hope you get it sorted.

Fred

I don't believe the 8300 will do 3mm margins, that is only available on the 6xxx models. I don't think you can do borderless on sheet feed just roll paper. The 8300 is not as versatile in handling sheet feed. You may want to look at the Canon Wiki. They have a lot of information on the Canon printers and the driver setups.

http://canonipf.wikispaces.com

Mike

Same with the 6100 that I just checked out. Borderless is grayed out when sheet paper is selected.

Fred

I know about the inability of 8300 to print borderless on sheet fed paper,I just wanted to find a solution of equal borders for this kind of setup.I didn't find a solution on Canon Wiki ..
Thanks everyone,
Silviu