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Author Topic: Canvas Turn Over Edges  (Read 24762 times)
Gicleemedia
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2009, 12:00:10 AM »

All,

Lets get a few issues down first:

A professional Giclee print has no STANDARD stretcher bar. The frame is made to mm accuracy and no original painting image is lost - none.

The bar depths are chosen to match the image anywhere from 12 to 100mm, thats 4 inches to you guys in the USA.

No PS automation is possible due to the variable nature of the dimension.

The current method is a simple mirror of each side, other blurred are stretched forms are not acceptable in art some ok for normal photography.

QIMAGE has a large base with the Giclee community but it is loosing it as there have been no functions targetting that industry added for many years.

Canvas printing is the largest user of water based product by area in the world today.

Signage RIPS are not used much for canvas printing, they are not needed.

Add these things up and its something that needs to be done but for more general usage several other forms of imaged borders should be considered.

 

 





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Gicleemedia
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2009, 12:38:56 AM »

All,

Further to my last post please all refer to the product specifications for gallery wraps of GF Pro 6.

They have listened well to the canvas printing community and have provided 100% of the required function.

Since V6 has been available for a while it is a surprise that the requested function is'nt already in Qimage.

We know of several companies that have swapped becuase of this function and some others.

And no - I am not a GF user. Grin

Bruce

I
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rayw
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2009, 01:38:31 AM »

How would you propose the gui should be? Another button labelled 'gallery wrap' perhaps? When pressed a small window opens in which you enter the size of the border(stretcher bar depth) and a list of types of wrap - maybe just 'reflected' and 'stretched' to start with. If you also put in the size of the final image in that window (excluding the wrap border), I think it would then be a very simple interface for the user. The final image, once generated, could be positioned on the media window using the existing tools.

All it needs now is a few minutes work by Mike  Grin, and 'Robert is your father's brother' ....

Best wishes,

Ray
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2009, 11:23:19 AM »


A professional Giclee print has no STANDARD stretcher bar. The frame is made to mm accuracy and no original painting image is lost - none.

The bar depths are chosen to match the image anywhere from 12 to 100mm, thats 4 inches to you guys in the USA.

No PS automation is possible due to the variable nature of the dimension.

The current method is a simple mirror of each side, other blurred are stretched forms are not acceptable in art some ok for normal photography.

QIMAGE has a large base with the Giclee community but it is loosing it as there have been no functions targetting that industry added for many years.

Canvas printing is the largest user of water based product by area in the world today.

Signage RIPS are not used much for canvas printing, they are not needed.

Add these things up and its something that needs to be done but for more general usage several other forms of imaged borders should be considered.



That first line is in contradiction with the message you started the thread with:
>>You cannot automate this in PS as the stretcher bars are a fixed size yet the images vary. Its very time consuming by hand in PS.<<
You could have learned something since.

On a Gallery Wrap (the one where actual image content is stretched on the depth of the frame, so lost at the front) the automation in PS is limited as you have to add a calculation up front for one dimension (sum of frame width+2xdepth+tolerance) at least, after that it is pushing the button but little has to be computed in that case. The other wraps including the Mirror Wrap can be automated in PS with variables for the frame size (image aspect ratio kept or not) and the frame depth. I have done the job so I know it can be automated.

ImagePrint, Ergosoft Studioprint and several other RIPs are not meant for the sign market yet do not have a canvas wrap feature. There are however a lot of sgn companies doing the canvas thing with (Eco)solvent printers, in the category cheap and fast. I believe there's one RIP with a canvas wrap feature.

Pity that GF's main function is a repeat of what Qimage does perfectly already. When I have a canvas wrap ready it is loaded to Qimage for printing and Qimage will do the upsampling to the printer's native resolution. The PS actions do no resampling when the image aspect ratio isn't changed. In few (and not desirable) cases where the resolution drops below 20 PPI in the canvas wrap size a resampling is needed to let the actions work correctly.

Your opinions on esthetics, ethics, marketshare, etc are nice, we all have opinions but do not express them so explicit.



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html







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Seth
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2009, 02:14:49 PM »

A professional Giclee print has no STANDARD stretcher bar. The frame is made to mm accuracy and no original painting image is lost - none.

The bar depths are chosen to match the image anywhere from 12 to 100mm, thats 4 inches to you guys in the USA.

No PS automation is possible due to the variable nature of the dimension....

Canvas printing is the largest user of water based product by area in the world today.

Signage RIPS are not used much for canvas printing, they are not needed.

Add these things up and its something that needs to be done but for more general usage several other forms of imaged borders should be considered.

Good morning-

If there is no standard size how do you propose to create the wrap to the precision you require?  It seems Ernst has it down in a PS action for a small fee.

However, QI doesn't pretend to compete with GF.  GF6 Professional is the only version that does gallery wraps.  It is $299(USD) (unlike mm, I cannot convert to Euros or GBP for you--too unstable  Roll Eyes  Wink )  It looks like a market for a QImage Giclee at $199 (USD) Grin.  When did GF ever come up with constant updates.  Oh, yes, didn't GF3, GF4, GF5 and GF6 each have an upgrade fee?

I am not really trying to argue with you.  I just want to make clear to the other folks that comparing QI to GF in actual functions is not a 1:1 affair. 

As to canvas being the largest use, even though you take solvent on mylar out of the equation, I still rather doubt your math.  I get several commercial and digital imaging publications each month.  I have never seen such a figure;  nor do I see massive advertisements pushing canvas.  Some of the large-company, high quality printers (such a Nash Editions) do not even offer canvas.

I guess I have to question the use of canvas as being used more than paper/fiber base in the world.  Given the number of amateur and professional printers, and the plethora of both quality and junk paper products out there, the statement is questionable.  Canvas is still a niche market.



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Seth
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2009, 04:54:38 PM »

How would you propose the gui should be? Another button labelled 'gallery wrap' perhaps? When pressed a small window opens in which you enter the size of the border(stretcher bar depth) and a list of types of wrap - maybe just 'reflected' and 'stretched' to start with. If you also put in the size of the final image in that window (excluding the wrap border), I think it would then be a very simple interface for the user. The final image, once generated, could be positioned on the media window using the existing tools.

All it needs now is a few minutes work by Mike  Grin, and 'Robert is your father's brother' ....

Best wishes,

Ray

I was thinking it should be nothing more than another border "color".  Right now you can select any border color you want for the two borders.  All we need is another selection other than "color" where you can select "mirror".  If you have "mirror" selected as the color, Qimage will then mirror the image for as long as the border specifies.  If you specify 1 inch, you'll get one inch of the image mirrored at all the outside edges.

Mike
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rayw
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2009, 10:25:35 PM »

Hi Mike,

I guess you'd have to generate the border just before printing - if you, say, enlarge the print, you'll have to lengthen the borders - and recalculate the 'pattern' therein, not just 'paint' in more of the same colour as per normal border. Then, what about the corners? I would guess a square of average colour, or black, or something.

As you say, another (or few) extra border selections would do fine - an 'M' instead of the colour patch for mirrored, an 'S' for stretched, and so on. My suggestion was just to keep it all simple, in one place, but it would fit neatly into the existing.

Best wishes,

Ray

PS, I'm delaying running some prints, waiting for this to happen ;-)
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« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2009, 12:21:41 AM »

Then, what about the corners? I would guess a square of average colour, or black, or something.

I thought about that.  If you're wrapping the canvas, the corners shouldn't matter, right?  They could be blank (white) because the edges would be cut at 90 degree angles to wrap over the canvas board.

Mike
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rayw
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« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2009, 02:48:48 AM »

Hi Mike,

I wouldn't want to cut the canvas corners, I would fold them into 'rabbit's ears', and tuck the excess under the top and bottom edges at the corner.  I wouldn't want to see any white lines, plus a concern with the canvas ripping, so I would not be cutting into the corners, and would need at least some margin for error, hence the requirement for the colour to be extended. Of course, others may do it some other way. Perhaps they will join in.

Best wishes,

Ray
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ballentphoto
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« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2009, 05:26:39 AM »

I agree that the corners should be filled in with the resulting mirror.  The white would easily show on the corners. Also it would be fantastic of there were layout lines placed, where the folds would be and also marking the center of the width and length.  It would help with placement on the stretchers.  I guess the inputs for the GUI would be

the actual width of the stretcher,
the actual width of the stretcher
Actual depth of the stretcher
bleed that would be added to the actual depth of the stretcher or a note to add to the stretcher depth.
checkbox(s) with the placement guides.

based on the above Q would automagically interpolate up or down to the size entered,  crop to fit the aspect ratio and print Smiley  This would save me a ton of time getting canvases prepped to print.  If you would like a sample of what the end result that I have been getting with a PS action I would be happy to send it to you.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 05:53:40 AM by ballentphoto » Logged
Seth
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« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2009, 10:30:46 PM »

...and 'Robert is your father's brother' ....

That must be the extended version. Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  I learned it as Bob's your uncle.  The extended version I learned adds: Fanny's your aunt.

Just a hard effect to do here without the Aussie accent.
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Seth
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2009, 10:33:05 PM »

I wouldn't cut the corners either.  I tuck the corner at the "45" line and butt fold both edges to the corner.
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Seth
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« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2009, 03:43:28 PM »

I'm wondering if anyone has thought of (or tried) these possibilities:

(1) Most of the time your shots won't be tightly cropped.  In those situations, just print a little bigger than needed.  If you have a 46 inch wide printer and you are printing to a 24x36 canvas, why not just print 27x39?  On a print that size, an extra inch and a half left for the wrap at the edges probably wouldn't be an issue in most cases.  You could even create a template/layout in Qimage that has a 24x36 template behind the 27x39 so you can see what will be printed: just use the full page editor and click to see the outline of the template on top of the bigger print.

(2) Another idea: if you want an inch and a half wrap around a 24x36, just place one copy of that image at 27x39 on the page and then place your 24x36 right on top of that in freehand mode.  Now you have your 24x36 at the size you want it and your wrap consists of the same photo at a slightly larger size.  When it prints, since the 24x36 is on top, only the outer inch and a half border from the larger one will show at the edges to be wrapped.  In many situations, unless you have hard angled edges at the outer edges of the photo, this will look nice.  For example, a portrait with a typical "smokey" or "sky" type backdrop would look great.  There's an added benefit here too: your eye would be able to pick up the delineation between the bottom and top print, showing you where the fold will be but after you fold it, it will look blended because you don't see the canvas and the edges in the same plane after it is mounted anyway.  Seems like that'd work pretty well.

Just some ideas.

Mike
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