Mike Chaney's Tech Corner

I'm trying to print some out of camera jpegs in one quick step, just open in qimage and print, but i cant find the unsharp mask function.

Probably right in front of me but i cant find it anywhere.  I see "sharpen" plainly marked on the quick tutorial, but my interface is a bit different.

   Normally I:
1. process photo in gimp,
2. resize in irfranview,
3. copy resized file back to gimp and apply usm
4. save sharpened file,
5. open in qimage and print.

I was also looking for a way to copy and paste the sharpened file into qimage without saving it, if its possible to eliminate my step 4 above.

Thanks, Carl

I do not know what you are referring to in "process photo in gimp" but certainly all the processes 2-4 can certainly be done more effectively, both in terms of quality and efficiency, in Qimage.
The main strength of Qimage is its ability to optimize the resize and sharpening functions, without altering your original file, and passing the optimized data to the specifications required by your specific printer.

The resulting print is maximized in terms of quality.

Select an image in the thumbs or image in the queue, right click and select "Create Associative filter" > full edit. The dialog box that comes up has all the magic that Qimage can do, the filters chosen will be applied to the file when it is being sent to the printer for printing. Your original file is left intact to adjust the filters if required in the future.

"process photo in gimp"   I was referring to levels, white balance, saturation, etc., all those things you find when you click on "create associative filter".   Thanks for the quick reply, thats what i was searching for. 

Processed a photo real quick and its sharp, good colors, very nice except I somehow created a big smeared out smudge on the subject.  When I was done on the full edit page i just clicked done and printed, deleted the photo out of the editor, and the smudge remains.  I was glad you pointed out that the file remains intact, but how come that smudge doesnt go away? Its about the size of a nickle on a 4x6 print. Maybe i have to close qimage and reopen and it will be gone?  It hasnt effected the original file I'm looking at in the Lightstone viewer.

Also cropped the top off the subjects head, its an olympus 4/3's file cropping to a 4x6 print.  I dont find a quick easy way to move the photo around on the paper to crop.  Thats really why I started using irfanview instead of cropping in qimage in the first place.  Thanks for any help, i'm sure this software is powerful, but really i bought it two years ago and never use it, just not intuitive for me.

Carl

It sounds as though you accidently used the "blemish" filter while using USM. See the attached screen snap (click on thumb to enlarge).
Notice the smudge I created and the fact that there's a dot in Blemish in the Auto Correct section. Blemishes are corrected by clicking and dragging to the right in the preview shown. Just un-dot "Blemish" and your smudge will disappear.
use the Full Page editor and the crop tab. To open the FPE, click the right hand button (magnifier icon) under the page preview on the main screen. Select the crop tab. There you can move the crop around, zoom and for precise cropping, click the High Precision button (icon with magnifier & +).
Keep asking Carl, you'll find Qimage is all you need.
Terry.

Carl
This is what I would suggest for your workflow:

1  Process photo in Gimp (if thats what you are used to it's best to stick with it) and save.
2  Open in QImage and print.
Use the full page editor and precision crop for cropping as Terry suggests and use the 'Sharpen' setting to match your photo.

Brian

Carl,
Apparently, you really don't have a satisfactory workflow. ... and as Seth and Terry pointed out, you are by-passing the quality of processing afforded by the proper use of Qimage.
The Unsharp Mask, for example is far superior to any other application's use of USM. Why? Because Qimage also has the Equalizer function to allow more control and better quality.
The interpolation (re-size) is best done in Qimage without any prior resizing or the original. Just tell Qimage what size print to make, the Hybrid or Hybrid SE interpolator will beat any app out there for quality prints. .... and that's why!
The print cropping is a cinch... it's all easy, but a person must put some effort into learning it and using it.
Use Gimp  since you are comfortable, but work at learning to use Qimage properly and you will never go back to anything other than Q again for processing and printing.
By the way, Smart Sharpening in another topic altogether. One quation at a time, and we will all try to help you get into the groove.
Fred

Sorry, I meant Dennis and Terry.
Too early in the am for me. :)

Brian said:
But Carl originally said

Brian, I don't agree with you on this (in the nicest possible way  ;)). Saving in another application means over-writing the original or extra copies.
The non-destructive feature of Qimage adjustment filters is missed otherwise.
Hopefully Carl will take Fred's advice:
and we can all help him to do that.  ;D
Terry.

Carl-

I agree with Terry as to:    It is SOOOOOO easy to get involved in that blemish mess when trying to just do unsharp mask.  (I quit doing it in QI!!)

BUT, if you are just trying to do "quick an dirty,"  I would do away wih all the other processing.  Let QI do the exposure and white balance, jump back out pick the size and turn up the smart sharpening.  Problem is, you do not see it in advance. 

BTW- You can even crop within the QI editor if you feel the need.  The beauty of this is it doesn't lose the original image (unless you want to); it is saved as part of the filter.

I learned my lesson from Mike a LONG time ago on re-sizing.  I let QI do it.  MUCH better quality interpolation. 

The only "re-size" I do in PS is opening in 16 or 32-bit, then saving my final PSD as 8-bit.

I am always willing tol earn, but for the life of me, where does using the Unsharp Mask get tangled with the blemish tool???

Fred

Quote" BUT, if you are just trying to do "quick an dirty,"  I would do away wih all the other processing.  Let QI do the exposure and white balance, jump back out pick the size and turn up the smart sharpening.  Problem is, you do not see it in advance." end Quote.

Will the soft proof feature show the print sharpening??

Boy, I don't know that one.  I don't use/trust soft proofing for looking at sharpening.  I don't feel monitors really show that aspect as it will appear on the print--all papers being different. 

I trust the smart sharpening so implicitly, I just print and look.

That being said, the only "quick-and-dirty" prints I make are proofs.  They are done on an Epson Picturemate using QI.  Then I hit the button, walk away and go do something else.

Fred said:
The only way I can think of is that a user assumes you can drag the image within the filter preview window. The text in the Window is clear enough as to what dragging left or right does.
is an exaggeration I think  ;)

To move the view position, either RIGHT click in the preview away from the centre to move it, or on the main image, at the point you want to look at in preview. Remember you can zoom in and out (fixed settings) in that preview Window.
I say this so as Carl and other readers can make this a learning experience  :)

you are missing out on this excellent feature - even Outback Photo copied the Equaliser idea for a plugin.
Terry.

Hi Terry-

  Wellllll, remember that Uwe is a programmer.  (We go back to before he became a book writer.)

Maybe I was misleading.  I do an initial USM when I first work images in PS or something else.  All DIT images need that (sharpening in the camera is not the best place--even in my  $5000 stuff).  It's the Brucer Fraser method that still works.

Any additional areas that need a punch up, without haloing, is done in PS because I can then revert and use the History Brush for just the areas where required.

Let me say that I do ALL of this anticipating what's coming down the line.  Less USM is more since I am constantly envisioning what Smart Sharpening will add.
(PS3 Smart Sharpen isn't very.)

Thanks for all the great help so far

I'm just shooting blind trying to use the USM function.  Preview window doesnt show the changes, I'm actually getting decent results anyway but how do you know whats happening without a preview?

The "sharpen" tab near the top of the full edit window does show the results in the preview window.  Is that whats known as "smart sharpening"?   

The rotate function in full page editor is great.  I used it to take a big crop off a small jpeg, taking a vertical slice out of a 4x6 file.  This is the first time i ever found an easy way to do this. I didnt really expect it to be printable and looking at the preview it looked terrible. But i clicked on the "HQ preview" and it looked good.  Print came out real soft but much better than expected.  Anyway, what is "HQ preview"?

Carl

 


   

First, make sure you have the right "View" settings in the Filter screen (top left View menu); I suggest you have everything ticked including "Filtered Image" and "Auto preview".
Whenever you change a USM setting in the Adjust tab, the preview will open at 1x zoom. YOu need at least that zoom to see the changes. The Preview will warn you in red text if it's less than 1x.

No.
The "Sharpen" adjustment is a little different from USM. In simple terms it sharpens all over whereas USM is more subtle and works more on edges.

Smart sharpening is print sharpening. This is necessary because prints with different sizes and other factors require different amounts of sharpening. The "smart" part is that Q takes care of all the factors automatically.
The degree of SS is set in the Printing/Interpolation preferences.
Help says:
Read more by opening the Printing/Interpolation preferences and click F1 or the Help button.
In summary, sharpen in the batch filter to your taste and set Smart Sharpening so that the print looks like what is on screen. Once set, it should work with most prints (the default of 5 should be ok to start with).

HQ is "High Quality" and gives a high resolution view of images on the page in the Full Page Editor. The default low resolution view means that the page loads quickly. You can change the default, a little drop-down menu on the right of the FPE screen. You will probably see Thumbs/Small Images set at present. "All Images" give a HQ view all the time.

Terry.

Terry,

You were right about the blemish tool causing the weird blur.  I do think i errantly clicked in the preview trying to move the image.

  So it turns out i've been using qimage smart sharpen and never knew it.  A little bit of smart sharpening and the unsharp mask i typically used in gimp give excellent results.   I notched the smart sharpening up to 10 and now i'm seeing results in the prints without gimp sharpened photos. 

Definitely dont see any qimage USM changes in the preview, no matter how much or how magnified. Its just going to take some trial and error, settings right now are radius 3, strength 5, equalizer 20.  Interpolation is set to vector, cant find "hybrid" setting available, is that outdated info? 

Figured out cropping issue.  However crop scissors setting is set going into the queue is how it remains, cant be changed without deleting file from the queue.  I tried removing from  "delete associated filters" option.  its just stuck however it goes to the queue. 

Thanks, probably wouldnt have muddled through this without the help.  Now printing jpegs without saving a print file.  yaahoo.     

Carl

Carl
If you select the print (or prints) in the preview window or the queue the crop button becomes active for that print.

Brian

Carl,
You need not remove the image from the queue to toggle back and forth scissors on or off.
You need only click once on the large image, top right, in the preview panel to select it, and then uncrop and crop away to your heart's content.
The theory is perfectly logical and works this way since many folks have 4 or 5 different shots on a page. Some might require crop off while the others need crop on.
The images are selectable for the adjustment.
Fred

Carl,
The USM settings you show are not strong enough to dent the unsharp mask Strength setting of 5 is like an eye dropper of water to a man in the desert.  ???
It all depends on the image that you want to sharpen.
First question: Are you shooting Raw or JPG?
If JPG, try a 2 radius and a 150 strength. Leave the equalizer alone until we get to it.
Let us know whether you see a change now.
Also, I think it was Terry who reminded us to go to the batch screen (where the USM is loated) and Click View. Then make sure you have Filtered image, high quality work image, and auto preview all checked on.
Fred

Carl-
I'll jump in the frey.

A lot depends on subject.  However, it's pretty rare I go over 1.7 Radius.  Usually 1 to 1.5.  It keeps the "digitized" or over-sharpened look away.  (No that there aren't times that 2-2.5 aren't needed.)   The strength for faces is about 75%--especially on women. 

Landscapes or "things" is 125-175, as Fred said. 

Regardless of what you settle on, find an initial setting to always start with so you have a frame of reference.  Whatever you do, WATCH FOR HALOS.  They are not a good thing thing.

Carl, below are some attachments of screen shots showing you what I see, they are small images (file size limit). one with no USM, the other with some applied, but more that I would use normally. I shoot raw so most USM is done in the raw conversion.
Notice the halos on the USM one that Seth mentioned.
I'll do another post in a moment with 2 more screen shots.
Terry

2 more USM previews.
No.1 has a modest amount of USM.
3 is the same as 2 in previous post except with equaliser applied too.
Terry

I see it now, just didnt use near enough strength before.   Ran out of ink with all my experimenting. 75% on faces is nice and subtle, with a lot of equalizer it really smooths it out.  Its kind of tough to tell on the monitor though.  Is it common to use 70-80% on the equalizer?

And you dont need to push smart sharpen to 10 when you actually use enough usm.  So, radius 2, strength 130% (75% faces), equalizer 70%, smart sharpen 5, interpolation Max / High / Vector. would be a good place to start for a 4x6.  Slowly getting there, its all starting to make a little sense at least.

Carl

   


 

First of all you are making good progress!
Unless you are shooting in RAW mode, not all images need the same amount or any sharpening. So you do it by eyeball.
It depends on the scene and the F stop and the quality of the lens.

Smart sharpen to default (5)...USM settings check and recheck as you experiment....Interpolation is correct...... I would use HYBRID as the interpolator, but Vector is good too.
Here's a basic explanation of the Equalizer. Again not every shot needs the equalizer, but you try and decide yourself when and how much!

Sharpening is really the increase of contrast on objects with edges of some
sort; e.g. grass, trees, pebbles, anything like that.
When using USM in a normal fashion, you realize the grass and trees look
fake when you reach a certain degree of USM.
When you add the EQ, the focus or strength of the sharpening lessens on the
edges and allows the softer items like flamingo feathers, even some faces, to continue to get
sharpened without over sharpening the edges part.
It makes a 3D effect when you get it right!
It works!!

I used flamingo feathers as an example, (living in sw florida) because they are very soft and smooth. Pelican feathers are the opposite. They have all hard sharp edges and will over sharpen easily.
So play with the controls and gain experience.
If you want to try Hybrid, simply click on EDIT and Interpolation (top selection) and select Hybrid.
Never asked what version of Qimage you were running. Hopefully, you are up to date.
Fred

Two more images with EQualizer

A caveat here, Fred.  Just, (IMHO) a take on DIT images.  ALL digital images need an initial USM.  They lose something in the interpolation, the Bayer filter, etc.

I know it's a broad statement, but here's my take:  JPEGs really should not be shot with in-camera sharpening (RAW doesn't matter).  At least, nothing you want to save and love.  It just does not give you the control that PS and QI give.  And, it is not reversible.

Now, ratting myself out, in the news game--what the heck!?!?!  Newspaper reproduction is pretty low anyhow; and it saves you time.  Even then I keep the boxes on low.  (Keep in mind I got jumped on only because my JPEGs were set to "quality" instead of "size."  They said the files were too big. 

Again, for good quality I'd leave the camera sharpen off. 

I am talking about the SLRs with the big sensors, not point-and-shoots.

If you want a really detailed explanation, Mike wrote an essay on the subject a few years ago for Outback Photo:

http://www.outbackphoto.com/dp_essentials/dp_essentials_05/essay.html

Terry.

Do you folks want to drag this to a new thread since this is really about Smart Sharpen?  I have some questions/observations based on Mike's theory.  I do not want to confuse anybody not wanting to get that techie.

Sounds like a good idea to me as the thread was started by Carl to help him on his way on the learning curve.
Terry.

Fred,

I see the added detail to the soft feathers and a little  of that 3d pop you spoke of more clearly in one of the pics. 

In the other one (with the tall grass and gazebo in the background), I see more detail everywhere, had you asked me to guess which one received the eq I would have got it backwards.  Same amount of USM and SS in the examples?

Carl

The point is, knowing the basic principles of the equalizer's function, makes you use it knowing it will shift the focus of increased sharpness (contrast) from the edges to softer areas, and when a specific area needs sharpening, but the other parts of the picture will look over.... fake looking, that's the time to try 3/300 and 75% EQ and see what you look like then.

Have fun with this. No need to get wound up worrying if it's right. You'll know what looks good.
One thing that interested me a lot was the phenomenon that occurred when I got a Samsung LCD monitor and threw out my CRT. Now the images all looked a tad over sharpened on the new monitor. Bottom line, make a test print to be sure whether the monitor is telling the truth.

Have fun!!! 
Fred

This is definitely a good learning thread!

Ya Me

Seems as though SS doesnt show up in any preview, just quietly does its thing in the prints.  Also seems to be directly related to the amount of USM you use so its hard to say just how much SS adds, saving that experiment for the next time i want 2 8x10's of the same photo.

Funny thing is in the older version of qimage i have the SS is not identified in the job options tab.  Its just a number on the same line as the interpolation adjustments, so i figured it was the level of interpolation.  I toggled it between 3-5 usually leaving it at 5 because that was labeled as default level.  I didnt think it had anything to do with sharpening, i wasnt using qimage for sharpening, it was just the best way i know to send a file to the printer.   I do know the prints are coming out great and now i think SS might be a big part of that. 

Not real sure about the equalizer and whether or not there is a big benefit to resizing/resampling in qimage because of interpolation functions, but my eyes are open.

Carl

I think what you asked for, a ways back in this thread, was a "print preview screen" which might then show the addition of Smart Sharpening.  However, I think you would still be frustrated and/or disappointed since it would not be the same size or resolution as your paper printout.  Usually, as I test print through 4x5, 5x7, 8x10 and 11x14, I have SS set by the 8x10--not always, but usually.

BTW--if you are showing/selling you can mark thes smaller ones as A/P and sell them too.  Sometimes I just give them with the big print and they realize you spent time and money getting their print right.

That is exactly right. Just set the level so your prints look like the screen image.
Terry.

I hope i dont sound disappointed, its more like somebody let me in on a secret. 

After reading the article about the equalizer function that Terry linked, it makes sense that black and white should have much better resolution than color.  I looked at a few images using the predefined "black and white" filter and think i do see more 3d effect in them, but i dont see greater resolution. 

It made me curious if i could push the iso higher than I normally would and get better resolution by converting to black and white?   Would it matter what interpolation settings you use for B&W prints? 

Carl