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Author Topic: QU & TTS Helps a Grey Heron to Overcome a Cheetah  (Read 17221 times)
Terry-M
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2010, 06:40:55 PM »

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Then you select t0 sharpen. TARGET ALL EXCEPT, and click on the leaves with the eye dropper as the exception.
Of course, even I get confused sometimes  Roll Eyes
Come to think about it and Owen's query on whether multi-stage TTS is required, the trick is to select for exception on the LEAST important tone/colour. That seems to work for most of my images with multiple colours including multi-colour backgrounds. If they are out of focus, it does not seem to matter.
Terry
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Owen Glendower
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2010, 06:49:11 PM »

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When using TTS, have you always been able to achieve what you want in one step?  Or, to put it another way, how would you apply different levels of TTS to two (or more) different areas of the photo?
On the whole I have been able to achieve what I want in one step of TTS. To some extent you can apply different levels of TTS to different areas using the slider. A simple example would be say a flower with green leaves. Select the green for exclusion so the main sharpening would be on the flower colour but reducing the slider to say 90% would add a little usm to the leaves.
Using a flower example again, I have had a dilemma when say, I want to sharpen the mauve flower and the yellow stamens but not the leaves. In practice it's not been a serious problem because by trying different selections to sharpen or exclude and using the slider have got a good result.
Sometimes a 2-stage TTS would seem to be useful but life would get more complicated.  Roll Eyes
Have you a sample image as you described?
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For example, a photo's two subjects--both of which you wish to sharpen using TTS--are radically different in tone.  The background--which you wish to leave alone--is so variable in tone that it cannot be "selected" overall.
If you have, maybe I and Fred could have a go and see what we could do with the current TTS.
Sometimes it may be best to not use TTS but the plain vanilla USM.
Before the ability to soften and sharpen in one stage was introduced I did attempt a 2-stage process by making a new image with the 1st stage applied and applying the second stage on the new image.
Terry

Okay, thanks again.  I think that I just have to experiment a bit more with the slider.  I don't have any particular "problem" image at hand--other than (I thought) the one you posted above.  When you said that you had chosen "Ex Tone" and selected the dark green background, I initially couldn't see why the brownish rocks DIDN'T get sharpened.  Your explanation of how you used the slider cleared that up.

I also re-read this thread, where the subject of multiple or "additive" TTS also came up:
http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ultimate/v2010-108-issuescomments-907/

Here's the strange thing: in a previous version of Qimage (and I've used them all), after adding some slight modification to a previously-edited photo, I seem to remember getting a pop-up telling me that a filter had already been applied to this photo, and asking me if I wanted to add to that filter, or replace it.  It happened more than once, but it's been a year or more, and I no longer remember the specifics.  Anyone else remember this?
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Fred A
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2010, 07:31:12 PM »

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I seem to remember getting a pop-up telling me that a filter had already been applied to this photo, and asking me if I wanted to add to that filter, or replace it.

Owen,
It's still there, but it depends on how you access the Image editor.
If you double click on the Thumbnail image, you are accessing the image editor presumably to do one image.
When you click DONE, it automatically saves the filter and closes the editor screen without asking because you are doing a single image.
No point in asking if you want to save the filter to one or all images in the queue.

On the other hand, if you access the Image Editor by double clicking in the middle of an image that is already in the queue, (the large preview panel image), then you are in the *batch* screen version of the Editor, and when changing anything and clicking DONE or NEXT, it will ask you and you will see the old familiar screen.
Hope that clears it up!

Fred
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Owen Glendower
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« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2010, 08:49:52 PM »

No, the pop-up I remember was not the "apply to all images in queue?" dialog.  It specifically asked if I wanted to add to the existing filter, or replace it.  Perhaps I'm just having a brain cramp and remembering a message box from another program.
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Fred A
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« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2010, 09:52:06 PM »

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add to the existing filter, or replace it.
Oh, OK that's the one that pops up when you CONVERT Images.
See no brain freeze, or cramp.
See snap
Fred
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Owen Glendower
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2010, 11:57:57 PM »

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add to the existing filter, or replace it.
Oh, OK that's the one that pops up when you CONVERT Images.
See no brain freeze, or cramp.
See snap
Fred

This is almost certainly what I was thinking of Fred, thank you.  I don't convert images that often, which is probably why I remembered getting the message only occasionally.

However, at the top of the dialog box (like the one you've posted), I can't select "Apply the filter to the current image only" button, even if I just have one image in the queue.  It's grayed out, just as in your screen snap.

Also, clicking the "Add to/replace existing filters" button opens the box with the sharpening & USM tools, but applying them doesn't open the image in an editing window.  I must be missing a point here somewhere.

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Fred A
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2010, 09:50:47 AM »

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I can't select "Apply the filter to the current image only" button, even if I just have one image in the queue.  It's grayed out, just as in your screen snap.

Also, clicking the "Add to/replace existing filters" button opens the box with the sharpening & USM tools, but applying them doesn't open the image in an editing window.  I must be missing a point here somewhere.

Good morning, Owen.
Lets take this slower, so I can sense what you are trying to do.
The grayed out Current Image Only, leaving APPLY to all as the running default is the way it has always been based on this command being a batch command; and meant to convert images to make a different format, and be able to tweak something rapidly, perhaps as I do sometimes, add a little more strength to the Unsharp mask setting, make my jpg, then do it again reducing the strength, and making a second JPG.

When I do this, tweak something from "add to" existing filters, it is only applies itself to the images in the queue, *one time*. It is not a permanent change and that's why you do not see the main editor screen. That would make the filter change and that change would appear in subsequent usage of that file and image.

If you want to do a CONVERSION to a TIF or a JPG and want to apply an additional filter to one image only, you can do that from the Batch Editor screen using FILE, SAVE AS....
Then you can convert your images one by one applying different additional components to the filter and saving.

I wish I knew what you were trying to make or do.

Also, if you look carefully, when that Quick edit screen ADD TO filter, appears, many items that require actually seeing the image, are grayed or non operational. Like Levels, Curves and a few more.

One last comment.
If you right click on a thumbnail image, and select Custom filter, you then see the same "add to" type box, but this time, the original settings from the current filter show up so you can tweak them and they get saved automatically.

I hope some of this is helpful.
If not, please explain what you are trying to do. That usually gets the juices flowing.

Fred
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Fred A
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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2010, 11:10:34 AM »

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Okay, thanks again.  I think that I just have to experiment a bit more with the slider.  I don't have any particular "problem" image at hand--other than (I thought) the one you posted above.  When you said that you had chosen "Ex Tone" and selected the dark green background, I initially couldn't see why the brownish rocks DIDN'T get sharpened.  Your explanation of how you used the slider cleared that up.

Owen,

I found an image from Tuesday, that might illustrate being able to sharpen the red feathers, the white face, the gray beak, the very dark eye, using TARGET ALL EXCEPT.
The EXCEPT was the background.
Now, what Terry was trying to point out: with judicious use of the slider (EQ%) you can add, lessen, or even out the amount of sharpening to various tones.
You have to experiment a little and get the feel; sometimes less strength and less Radius, with 80% EQ will get the result you want, whereas, 100% EQ and a higher radius and strength was just right to accentuate what you wanted.

Fred
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 07:38:39 PM by Fred A » Logged
Owen Glendower
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« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2010, 03:58:45 PM »

The grayed out Current Image Only, leaving APPLY to all as the running default is the way it has always been based on this command being a batch command; and meant to convert images to make a different format, and be able to tweak something rapidly, perhaps as I do sometimes, add a little more strength to the Unsharp mask setting, make my jpg, then do it again reducing the strength, and making a second JPG.
...
Also, if you look carefully, when that Quick edit screen ADD TO filter, appears, many items that require actually seeing the image, are grayed or non operational. Like Levels, Curves and a few more.
...

That clears it up, Fred, thank you.  I could of course see the N/A functions in the quick edit screen.  But I thought something was wrong because clicking on an operational item like "Sharpen" didn't immediately pop up the enlarged view you get in the full editor screen.  Similarly, nothing happened when I clicked the TTS eyedropper, leading me to wonder if anything was operational in the quick edit screen.  That'll teach me to experiment late at night!  Thanks again, you've been both helpful and patient.
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Owen Glendower
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« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2010, 04:07:11 PM »

Now, what Terry was trying to point out: with judicious use of the slider (EQ%) you can add, lessen, or even out the amount of sharpening to various tones.

Yep, that's what I didn't understand previously, which is why I initially couldn't figure out how Terry was able to avoid sharpening the entire background in his photo.  Got it now.
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Owen Glendower
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« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2010, 09:26:57 PM »

Inspired by Terry.  Stole his TTS settings, too.  Original is a jpg from a p&s shot wide-open in early-morning light.  Not on a par with Terry's, but much improved with TTS.  Thanks again to Terry & Fred for sharing their knowledge.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2010, 09:46:47 PM »

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Stole his TTS settings, too
Feel free, you can use them any time you like  Grin
A nice shot, have you printed it?
Terry
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Fred A
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« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2010, 10:05:26 PM »

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but much improved with TTS

Wait a minute! The middle toe nail on the right foot needs trimming.

Really nice.
Fred
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Owen Glendower
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« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2010, 11:54:43 PM »

Wait a minute! The middle toe nail on the right foot needs trimming.

Good one, Fred!

Thanks to both of you for your kind words.  Haven't printed this one yet, Terry, but printed a similar shot from the same day before I had Ultimate and wasn't happy with the results.  Will certainly print this one and re-work the other, then have another go at printing.

Terry, I should have mentioned that I tried various levels of sharpening (all by selecting a background tone and choosing EX TONE) and also played with the slider, but finally decided that I couldn't do better than the parameters you had generously included in your post.  Like you, I also tweaked the curve just a bit.  I also had one click of Sharpen and ticked the Shadow noise box, which vastly reduced the noise in the shadow areas.  Camera was a Canon Powershot Pro1, IMHO one of the best p&s digicams ever made, but those tiny sensors are noisy, no way around it.  Probably about a 50% crop.

Photographed in Florida, as you may have been able to infer from the background.  Fred, if you ever want to see those toenails really up close, join me sometime at my brother's home on the St. John's river near Astor.  His vast expanse of decking runs right down to the water's edge, and I can shoot stuff like this while I'm having my morning coffee.  I do not exaggerate.  When he begins cleaning a few fish from his morning's catch, the sky darkens with birds like these.  They land on the deck and walk around impatiently waiting for a handout.  The location is a photographer's dream.  I'm going down for a week in November, and am very much looking forward to re-shooting stuff like this with my relatively new Nikon D5000, a birthday gift from my generous & affluent son.

Terry & Fred, I still have much to learn about TTS, but you guys have opened the door.  Thanks again for your compliments, your patience, and your generosity.
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Fred A
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« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2010, 09:15:08 AM »

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When he begins cleaning a few fish from his morning's catch,

Er, um, cleaning some fish from his morning catch??!!!

FISH!!!

Let me put it this way. If Qimage Ultimate had Food Targeted Selecting, you would click on INVITE ALL EXCEPT, and click on ME!

Thank you for the invite though. Your heart is in the right place.
On the other hand, I know for a fact that Terry loves fish and chips.... You might mention to him where the nearest airport might be.

 Cheesy Cheesy   Fred
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