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peters
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« on: February 04, 2012, 05:17:30 AM » |
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Alright, done as in the videos.
Image comes out a bit red and over-saturated. This is disabling ICM in the Printer and letting QImage handle the color through setting the proper profiles. There is no double-profiling, I've checked.
Monitor is profiled.
Z3100 has a profiled paper in it (new profile and calibration)
However, turning on the Printer to do the Color Management in the Driver seems to give much better, though not perfect, results.
What, if anything, am I doing wrong?
Thanks
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Fred A
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 10:10:50 AM » |
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Image comes out a bit red and over-saturated. This is disabling ICM in the Printer and letting QImage handle the color through setting the proper profiles. There is no double-profiling, I've checked.
I wish I had a copy of the driver installed, but so far I haven't very successful installing HP drivers unless one has the printer connected. Nevertheless, unless otherwise instructed, 99% of printing using properly made printer profiles for the paper, ink, and printer, require that the Driver be set to No Color Management.The phrasing is not standard, so it might be called something else such as Color Matching OFF, APPLICATION MANAGED COLOR, No Color Correction... and perhaps others. I will make another attempt to get a Z3100 driver installed. In the meantime, maybe Ernst will check in here and he is expert at the HP printers and especially the Z series. Fred |
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Fred A
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 10:56:22 AM » |
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I wish I had a copy of the driver installed, but so far I haven't very successful installing HP drivers unless one has the printer connected.
Nevertheless, unless otherwise instructed, 99% of printing using properly made printer profiles for the paper, ink, and printer, require that the Driver be set to No Color Management.
The phrasing is not standard, so it might be called something else such as Color Matching OFF, APPLICATION MANAGED COLOR, No Color Correction... and perhaps others. I finally squeaked by and got the Z3100 driver installed. The Z 3200 would not go through, but you have a Z3100. Mind you, I don't have a manual nor the printer, but the driver seems very straightforward. I would DISABLE ICM in the ADVANCED TAB, and then in the color Tab, place a dot in APPLICATION MANAGED COLOR. See screen snaps. Fred |
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 10:59:46 AM by Fred A »
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peters
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 12:56:06 PM » |
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Done.
Just as you have shown.
Also, just profiled the Monitor.
Also, just calibrated and Profiled the Paper in the Printer.
Color is off - too Red, too Saturated.
Only option is that the Color Management Engine in Qimage U is at fault.
Printing with - Printer Managed Colors works well. Can't figure out why. Image is an Adobe RGB Tiff from Lightroom.
Thoughts?
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Fred A
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 01:02:00 PM » |
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Only option is that the Color Management Engine in Qimage U is at fault. Not an option if your profile is correct and made for the printer and the paper. Any chance I can get the image here? wathree.ssz@verizon.net. If the image is too large for emailing, you can send it for free using https://www.wetransfer.com/ to the same email address. Fred |
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Fred A
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2012, 03:37:33 PM » |
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Also, just calibrated and Profiled the Paper in the Printer.
Color is off - too Red, too Saturated.
Only option is that the Color Management Engine in Qimage U is at fault.
Printing with - Printer Managed Colors works well. Can't figure out why. Image is an Adobe RGB Tiff from Lightroom.
Thoughts? One more test! Please set the driver to the color setting as shown in *this* screen snap, and Qimage Prtr profile to the setting shown in this post too. Make a print and tell me if you color problem is still there, or gone? Fred |
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 04:00:00 PM by Fred A »
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bgrigor
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2012, 07:53:43 PM » |
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Done.
Just as you have shown.
Also, just profiled the Monitor.
Also, just calibrated and Profiled the Paper in the Printer.
Color is off - too Red, too Saturated.
Only option is that the Color Management Engine in Qimage U is at fault.
Printing with - Printer Managed Colors works well. Can't figure out why. Image is an Adobe RGB Tiff from Lightroom.
Thoughts?
Greetings! I have been running an HP Z3100 44" in a production shop with Qimage since 2007 and I'm getting excellent results. Perhaps I can help. With some reds on some papers, including canvas, there can be a noticeable and (as far as I know) unavoidable gamut problem. However, if you can get better results with different settings, then it is likely not the paper gamut. A couple of questions: - what firmware are you running in the printer? There was a known issue with reds a while ago that was addressed with a firmware upgrade. The latest is 7.0.0.3-7. - what driver version are you running? A new driver v1.14.1.9 was released last summer and I would recommend installing it if you haven't already. - are you on a Mac or Windows system? - did you use the HP Utility Color Center with both the calibration and profile steps with the built-in spectrophotometer? Or some other method (e.g. Colormunki)? - what paper are you printing on? - have you done soft-proofing in Photoshop to select the best rendering intent? This can make a dramatic difference. In many cases P (Perceptual) is not the best choice, whereas RC (Relative Colorimetric) is. However, it is good to soft proof both, with and without BPC (Black Point Compensation) to determine visually which combination introduces the least noticeable shifts. I have posted two screenshots from my system (Windows 7 64-bit) Cheers! Brad |
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--bag
"May fortune favor the foolish."
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2012, 08:18:52 PM » |
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Alright, done as in the videos.
Image comes out a bit red and over-saturated. This is disabling ICM in the Printer and letting QImage handle the color through setting the proper profiles. There is no double-profiling, I've checked.
Monitor is profiled.
Z3100 has a profiled paper in it (new profile and calibration)
However, turning on the Printer to do the Color Management in the Driver seems to give much better, though not perfect, results.
What, if anything, am I doing wrong?
Thanks
Using HP paper? Image has a color space assigned and which one? Try the following; print with the HP driver's CM on with the media preset for that paper and a test image either sRGB or AdobeRGB assigned, the driver's CM set to sRGB or AdobeRGB depending on what is assigned to the image, Qimage's CM set to šLet Printer/Driver manage color". The other print with the HP driver set to "Let application manage color", same test image with the same color space assigned as above, media preset as above, Qimage CM with the HP OEM profile for that paper not a custom profile. That should deliver about equal color in the two prints, the driver CM is based on internal LUTs for that paper but the OEM profile used in Qimage should be close. Rendering choice in Qimage CM could make some difference. If no color space is assigned to the image or another color space than the driver CM expects you will get different results. Z drivers have a habit of falling back to the default settings so make absolutely sure that your CM settings in the driver stick by going back to the driver settings after the print is made and see that they are as intended. There is also the Advanced Color setting in the driver, all settings on zero there? The use of a custom profile comes after you made similar prints with the conditions sketched above. met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ |
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bgrigor
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2012, 08:27:26 PM » |
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If no color space is assigned to the image or another color space than the driver CM expects you will get different results.
I definitely agree that if there is no colour space in the image file, then different printing setups (driver vs. application) can and often do produce vastly different colour results. It is recommended to have warnings enable in Photoshop so that when you open the image you'll be told that it doesn't have a colour space assigned. If that is the case, assign one (either sRGB or Adobe 1998), save the file (ensure the colour space tag option is checked when saving), then try printing it. You should at least get more predictably consistent results that way. Cheers! Brad |
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--bag
"May fortune favor the foolish."
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Fred A
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2012, 08:54:07 PM » |
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Thank you Brad and Ernst.
I knew that Ernst has Z series, but Brad too? Wonderful.
I was hoping someone would pop who actually ran the printer.
Fred
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peters
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2012, 12:48:28 PM » |
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Fred,
I am out of town at the moment and will send the image next week when back. The image is 24 mpixel and a TIFF with embedded RGB soft proofed in Photoshop prior to output. When set as you show above (what I set to for the printer to manage the colors) everything prints perfectly, in fact I am very impressed with the match.
It is wen I try to have QImage handle the color that it all falls apart.
I have used the Color Management in order to have the printer calibrate and profile the paper (Calumet Briliant Satin) and have the new Eye One Pro to calibrate the monitor. I've been doing this for years, so I know when it is spot on, and it is.
What I am trying to determine is why the printer can get it right, but Qimage can not.
Thanks
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Fred A
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2012, 01:21:06 PM » |
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I have used the Color Management in order to have the printer calibrate and profile the paper (Calumet Briliant Satin) and have the new Eye One Pro to calibrate the monitor. I've been doing this for years, so I know when it is spot on, and it is.
What I am trying to determine is why the printer can get it right, but Qimage can not. I will be happy to see the image and have a look at the colorspace if any. But more important, I think we are closing in on the cause. What the evidence points to is not a defect in Qimage, but a defect in your profile. (Assuming your driver settings are correct) (And as Ernst said, recheck the driver before printing as sometimes, the HP drivers decide to lose a setting) First let me point out a couple of anomalies. As long as you mentioned the paper you were using, I checked the paper from Calumet Brilliant Satin. They make printer profiles for their paper, but none for your printer.... see screen snap! Next we ask why no profile for your printer which is a class above the B series, so I am told? Some papers defy profiling for certain inks or drivers.... Next you seem to put a lot of reliance on the profile that the printer is making for the paper. It may not be working right! We know the printer is OK, and we know Qimage is sending the proper data. The prints are good WITHOUT THE PROFILE. I don't know if you have any HP PAPER that comes with the HP profile (Some HP Glossy or HP matte; any paper that matches a premade HP profile that came with the printer driver) but if youi can make a test print with a proper match of paper and an HP profile made for the paper, I would bet you get an excellent print! That would convince you that the Calumet Satin profile you made is not working. Fred |
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bgrigor
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 05:14:28 PM » |
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Peter, is it possible that the profiles on the printer are out of sync with the profiles on the computer? Because when you choose Prtr ICC = "Let printer/driver manage color" in QU, you're using the profile on the printer. When you choose Prtr ICC = "some profile" in QU, you're using the copy of the profile on the system. It can't hurt to re-sync them using the HP Print Utility Color Center.
The other issue could be the rendering intent chosen in QU. Which HP printer driver "ICM Intent" option gives you the best result when you "Let printer/driver manage color"?
When you get back and if you are willing, I would be willing to test print your file on my Z3100 with QU using one of my similar papers and we can compare steps taken and settings used. I use Dropbox and I also have a submit link on my web site.
Cheers!
Brad
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--bag
"May fortune favor the foolish."
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Fred A
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2012, 05:18:56 PM » |
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When you get back and if you are willing, I would be willing to test print your file on my Z3100 with QU using one of my similar papers and we can compare steps taken and settings used. I use Dropbox and I also have a submit link on my web site. Brad, Excellent idea!! You actually have the printer... That's what I wanted him to do.... print to a known HP paper with a known HP matching profile. Super: You read that he is using an off brand paper for which there is no profile supplied for that specialized paper. Fred |
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peters
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2012, 07:40:44 PM » |
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I will happily send the image next week when I return.
However, I have synced the profiles. It is also a new profile so I am sure it is synced and properly showing in QU with the correct build date. I have checked the settings in the HP driver and they seem to have stuck.
I am also pretty sure i am using the latest driver and FW, but can not confirm until next week. Please send me a link to both if you get a chance and i will check when i get back.
Thanks for all the assist. Appreciate it.
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