Bah!  Humbug!   

A "REAL" editor should have a "Sticky Eyedropper" as a fundamental basic tool for editing.  PS has it.  PaintShop Pro X-whatever# also has it.  Even Nikon's Capture NX2 has four "Watch Points" selectable to 1 pixel, 3x3 or 5x5 pixels.  All of them are "stickies."  Move a curve and watch them change.  So much easier than entering in Qimage, writing down the RGB numbers with its "Non-sticky" (memory-less) dropper along with the pixel co-ordinates, edit the curve, and then go back in a read the change one made with the dropper - and good luck hitting the same pixel array twice too!

Makes setting up a linear gray scale or color gradation curve so much easier with the other "REAL" editor stickies.  Sure, Qimage can adjust the curve and colors, just hard as heck as the current eyedropper it uses is not a sticky (forgets the RGB values once moved), and only one point too where the other "REAL" editors have 4.  Five "stickies" would be ideal:  i.e. A black dMax RGB sticky, second step off that black, White dMin sticky, a step off the white dMin, and maybe a middle grey of 128 sticky too.  One could shift the Curve (Third tab in the Editor pane) and watch the sticky dropper numbers change for the final print.  It's a big PITA as it is.

Aside, I use multiple portable USB hard drives for cataloging (large TIFF layered files hitting half GB in size) and yet to figure out what the "Cataloging stuff" is all about since they are in folders on each USB drive.  Same for Lightroom too.  Never use either of them for that feature.  Too many drives and images.  I like my main editor computer clean of debris and old images.


Scrooge's 2 cents.  And yeah, it beats Excel too. 

Ah ha!  Got it.  Two blue borders: One image.  Second (outer) is the mat.  Have to click on the outer (mat) one.  Thanks!


Neither do I. 


Mack

Terry-

Landscape image size shows 10.88 x 8.07 @ 111 ppi in Qimage right screen pop-up.  Original image shows in the bottom bar as 403,825 bytes, 1200 x 900, IPTC, ICC: sRGB.icm

Trial borders were set 0.5 left, top, right.  1.0 on bottom.

Went back in to Photo Mat > Edit.

Selected Eyedropper to change background colors on the print in the right pane.

Somewhere in the above the error popped up and Task Manager was called for to kill the app.


However, on this second attempt to get the error reported, I had to do the Reset/Normal thing since I had to shut it down in Task Manager (I guess why it asked?). I never really know which to use there so I hit "Reset" and got a battery of questions "Are you sure?" etc.  I don't know about that one or what it is resetting (Like deleting ICMs profiles, printers, or something?).  I really can't stand that annoying screen's query vagueness, but what the heck.

So back in and the same above image again, and now I cannot select "Edit" even I set up the same mat (above dimensions) along with a colored border, just the "Add mat," "Grow," and "Shrink," are selectable even though there is a mat already selected. The "Edit" part is now greyed out even though a mat is shown???

I exited the large pop-up "Photo Mat Properties" box a few times, and now the "Edit" part came back (As did the "Add" one.) and it is active again.  The "Grow" and "Shrink" are now greyed out even though the same image is in the right pane.  Just exiting and re-entering same image a few times seems to have fixed that.

Okay, while typing this (Qimage in another window), the mat Edit has switched again and I no longer see the "Edit" part, just the "Add," "Grow," and "Shrink" are active again.  Now I cannot "Edit" the mat as it is greyed out.  Colored border is now locked on the same image.

Very odd stuff.   


Mack

Was playing in the new mat selection (Looks good!) and went in to edit, used that eyedropper tool (A total bane of a tool for me!) a few times chanign the border color, and then this popped up:

Qimage-
Access violation at address 004AB71F in module "Qimage.exe."  Read of address 00000074.

Clicking OK just reopens the error box again and again.  Have to shut program down in Task Manager (Windows 8.1 64).


Mack

Percentages?  Really?!!!

If I want a 6mm border (or 1/4 inch) with a 12mm (or 1/2 inch) border on the bottom, what "percentages" would I need for a 13x19 inch print?  Need to find a calculator to do it.  "Percentages" is a bad - and very slow - idea.

Border colors are already accessible easily on right pane (small white rectangle by default), unless you want a mix on four sides.


Mack

Fred, "putting a tail on a single pixel" isn't a bad idea!   

Photoshop has had "single pixel" for a long time with its "Color Sampler Tool."  CS6 has the ability to lock-in up to four different pixel areas (Adjustable from 1x1 pixel up to 101x101 Average.), along with the ability to see CMYK 16-bit percentages as well as the RGB numbers for those four selections.

Move anything in the image with the PS editor and you can see each or all of the numbers move.  Quite handy if you need to dig in on a single pixel as in the sample image I attached that has a linen surface to it and anything more than one pixel screws up the numbers.

If you read Lee Varis book "Skin II..." on retouching, he uses the pixel points a lot to determine skin corrections in shadow, highlights, middle values, etc. by using the PS "Color Sampler Tool" and CMYK 16-bit percentages.  It is a very good book on color retouching and interesting means to get there.  Actually with Lee's method, you could set skin "color" up correctly on even a B&W monitor with they way he reads the CMYK data with the PS "Color Sampler Tool."

Of course, I have to be difficult with an "applied texture" to an image prior to sending to the printer with canvas loaded (See attached sample.).  Monitor never shows in the Qimage editor pop-up what comes out of the printer as a 100% match, even with a $1,500 i1 ProfilePro 2 applied.  x-rite even mentioned the issue of one's LCD screen varying both in color (Kelvin) and brightness in 9 areas which makes it diffiult to see a screen even change with the pop-up ediotr filter window, but the numbers don't lie that something has moved.  Change an ink tank and all hell breaks loose at times between the two no matter how good the profiling was.  According to x-rite, you can have two identical monitors and they will never be alike even when profiled.  You get close, but they showed by wandering around on a Mac screen issues with the screen in color and brightness.  Of course, if you have a $5,000 Eizo then maybe they will match since the factory sets up individual areas around the screen that no commercial profiler will do as it only sets a profile to the spot it reads.

Qimage has the ability to see the RGB values change within the Editor with the slopes and colors, etc. just the RGB is always a major hunt with the eyedropper tool to determine how far I have moved something in RGB numbers.  It is quite touchy on the landing spot, but that is my hardware too.

It was only a "suggested addition" to Qimage if it didn't have the lock-in ability for a pixel with the eyedropper, which it appears it doesn't vs. PS.  Actually, a small window with the ability to set and see 4 or 6 RGB values or CMYK percentages since most skin retouchers use those (within bounded markers) around an image wouldn't be a bad idea either.  One could play to their hearts content in the Qimage Editor and watch them change and put them where they need to go.  Can't do that in the current configuration.

Try the PS "Sample Color Tool" sometime and watch the numbers change while you edit.  Quite helpful even with one pixel selected.  More so if you are stuck in some wedding image with a lot of white and massive colors coming in from every direction to sort out.  This linen image attachment was a mess too as to the location and lighting issues.  One pixel off and RGB is very different.

Best,

Mack

Fred, I think we're on separate pages.

Example:

In the +Sel. Color pane with the Eyedropper I read this:

Pixel Pos. = 752 715.  I eyedropper click on that spot and see this in the Curr. Color for that pixel:  R=234 G=174 B=162.  This is just for reference.

Now I make a print.  It is too cyan overall and needs more red.

In the editor's +Sel. Color I can apply a 1.20 to the N(eutral, or overall color applied?) R-value instead of the default 1.00.  Screen image in the Editor's pop-up screen shows more red applied, and it prints that way too.  No issues there.

Now if I go back with the eyedropper tool and hit that exact same pixel spot of 752 715 (Takes time!), click on that spot and pray the pixel position doesn't change doing so, it now reads R=255 G=172 B=160.  I know the change of 1.00 to 1.20 Red in the editor has boosted it by a given amount from R=234 to 255 so all is well.  I wanted more red overall and got it.

/Example


What I proposed with the "Sticky Eyedropper" suggestion was to somehow mark or memorize that pixel location so I don't need to try and hunt down that single pixel again to determine the RGB numbers change.  Sometimes it is slight, and maybe not even seen on the monitor than the printer, but a tad more red might help.  Given that the next pixel away from 752 715 may be way off than what I needed, it would be nice if there was a "Sticky Eyedropper" to get back to that exact spot and see what has changed an by how much.  With that, I can take a spectrometer reading from subsequent prints and apply a given value in the editor to match.

Knowing how much it has changed in that RGB number shown under the eyedropper tool on that single pixel, I can then apply to some reading made from the i1 PhotoPro 2 spectrometer to make adjustments to subsequent colors in prints for them all to match.  As it is now, it changes too quickly moving the mouse pointer off that single image pixel unless I write it all down.  Getting back on that exact spot each time I change a value in the color pane is the problem as mouse resolution isn't so great.

I don't think TTS is the tool for this job, but I did see the marker (box) the eyedropper left behind if I click on the eyedropper tool again in the TTS window.  RGB Numbers still change moving the eyedropper either to that box or off it and aren't locked.  They might remain with the pop-up window, but clear the pop up and the RGB numbers all change again.

Hope this is more clear. 


Mack

Fred, I hit the Target box in the Tone Targeted Sharpen Window and it popped up a bunch of stuff.  It shows "Target the selected RGB value" which I guess is what I am trying for.  I want to redden a skin tone a bit.  I think that tool only applies a sharpening to a color, but I'm unsure of what it does to color.

I don't see a marker anywhere though.  Where it is hidden?  I put the eyedropper in the above area (between the eyebrow) and it put the skin color in there, but messing around in the +Sel Clr. pane and boosting red (R#, which it does) I don't see a marker to jump back to compare it too?

Seems only the eyedropper can get me an idea as the RGB value and what has changed, bit it isn't a "sticky eyedropper" like in Photoshop - and I can't find this marker thingy anywhere

Thanks.

Mack

Suggestion:

When in the Editor > +Sel. Color pane, in the "Pixel pos." window, it would be nice if one could click on that pane and use the arrow keys on the keyboard (or even manual input of the coordinates) to get back to some reference spot (eg. Example 700 x 912) to see what changes have been made to the "Curr. Color" eyedropper thing since the eyedropper tool cannot be locked on a spot during an edit.  Would be nice if I could right-click and lock the dropper onto an edit spot too.  It's almost impossible to plant the pixel position with any degree of repeatable accuracy with a mouse.

Unless there is some keyboard shortcuts that can allow for this buried somewhere. 


Mack

Got this cryptic message in Windows 8.1-64 that "Qimage was not normally shut down" along with a Reset or Normal checkbox too?  Or which one of those two to chose from and what subsequent damage one may do to the settings?

Don't know if hitting the upper right X to close it is not a normal method of closing it, or should I always go to the File > Exit?

First time I've seen that since the large Windows 8 update yesterday of some 17 updates.


Mack

I searched and found something way back in 2009 on 16 bit that was actually 8 bit in Qimage and not supported then.

Has this changed since 2209 and we are up to Windows 8.1-64 now, and which version of QU did this occur in?

I'd like to demonstrate the difference between 8 & 16 bit using the Canon XPS driver and wondered if it will show a marked difference with gamut and home-made profiles?

Tia.

Mack

Okay, it's a bit slow in here so I thought I'd post something...

Did a "Print to File" after I did a very small correction in the QU editor.  Maybe 0.99 Blue, and a 0.97 Green to a TIFF image.  Only 1 point of contrast too.  Not much.  Did the "Print to File" and saved it as a TIFF.

When I opened the image in Windows Image Viewer and PS CS6, it looked very reddish in the blacks, and posterized (contrasty) too.  I noticed the image had been converted to 8 bits from the original 16 bits so I suspect something happened in there to cause the extreme difference?

Any ideas?

Not a big deal as I re-edited the original in CS6 by adding the magenta and slight warming for the yellow, but the QU "P-to-F" image really went wild!


Add:

I noticed when the P-to-F file went in to Photoshop it went as a "paper profile" from QU and not a generic "sRGB, Adobe 1998, or ProPhoto" profile.  I don't know if it should be set to maybe a Adobe 1998 RGB on the P-to-F save or not.  Does seem it went from 16 to 8 bit too so might explain some of the odd color and contrast when viewed in other image viewers than cannot figure out what "Epson Glossy.icm" (or icc?) is all about or how to handle it?

Mack

If I have 50 *.flt files on various images, is there a way QU can average them all into one generic filter?  Maybe tell me a direction I tend to always apply the filters, and maybe let me make an adjustment in PS at the beginning?  A "Learning mode" maybe?

Seems I always add red, boosting shadows with fill, maybe a bit less brightness for competition (The judges favor darker prints.), etc.  There must be a way to learn my general "Go-To" settings with this big pile of *.flt's - and maybe give me a report too.


Mack

I'll add, read the closing comments in this PDF file on Epson printers (Page 10): http://www.digitaldog.net/files/Profile_FAQ.pdf

Your paper selection in the Epson driver does affect the print density.  There is a TIF file in the PDF (Inkdensity.tif  Here: http://www.digitaldog.net/files/InkDensity.zip ) that one can use to test out various papers "PRIOR" to running some calibration for their ICM profiles that tunes them in further.  It helps to obtain your unique paper's density first prior to chasing down (or calibrating) a correct profile for the way Epson does it (i.e. Correct paper selection precedes any image profiling.).

Sounds like you need to get the ink density down for your two papers as they seem different and why the Epson driver is doing a "speed shift" and ink density difference (i.e. Luster ain't Glossy which ain't Pearl which ain't Canvas either so ink "lie-downs" will be very different between them all.).

Nice thing about QU is that it will remember this "big mess" the next time you go through it. 

Mack

I have PSP X6 also.  I haven't been too impressed with the color out of that program vs. PhotoShop CS6 or most any other.  When I open it, it takes over my monitor's calibrated profile which sort of ticks me off as I can see the screen color shift when I open it from the default.  Once out of it, I have to revert the profile back to the calibrated one.  The Corel forum has some people who have issues with color management with PSP X5 and X6.  I wish they'd fix it.  I played with their software's color screen calibrator, and the two x-rite's and they are different in the final profile result.

Offhand, I'd guess your "Too dark" glossy is maybe your monitor being too bright which seems the norm.  Your lighter "Pearl" may be a different profile that puts less ink down than say your glossy print is getting.  Problem is the Ilford generic profiles sort of fit, but I haven't found them all that accurate compared to making your own.  Some paper surfaces take ink far better and make blacks much blacker than other surfaces which compounds the problems.  Epson doesn't make it easy as they have all sorts of paper types (glossy, matte, art, luster,etc.) and trying to make one fit another manufacturer's brand can be difficult.

Personally, I'd invest in something like a "ColorMunki Photo" to make sure your monitor is within tolerance for printing, and then run your sundry papers through it to establish an ICM profile to pull up in Qimage to print with.  I just had a peek at all my ICM profiles for my printers and all the papers I use and there are 244 of them in the C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color folder.  Most all are ones I made due to the inks I use (I gave up on pigments over dyes due to the papers I use.) and different printers I call up via Qimage.

I use several hardware calibrators: "DataColor Spyder 3" (Monitor only, and now retired.), x-rite "ColorMunki Photo" ($450) which does both monitor and printer profiles, and the x-rite "i1 PhotoPro 2" ($1,500) which does monitor and printer but also accounts for optical brighteners out of some "bright white" papers and bright white canvas that excess 100+ in brightness.  The ColorMunki Photo is sort of fun to play with though whereas the i1 PhotoPro 2 can be time consuming as heck to read some 2,300 color chips.

I have one printer I use for proofing, a Canon 9000 II, that I run OCP inks in.  My refills cost about 35 cents a cartridge so the money I saved in a year by not buying the OEM $16 carts paid for the "ColorMunki Photo" which profiles those inks too.  Buy some Costco Kirkland paper ($15 for 150 sheets) and it costs me maybe 12 cents an 8"x11.5" print.  Then I can move up to the Epson later once I have the print worked the way I want it via Qimage.

I suspect if what you are seeing in Qimage is the same for your different papers on your screen yet your prints look different, then it's time to calibrate with some hardware for those different papers.

Good luck.

Mack