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Author Topic: Printer consumables  (Read 16699 times)
Fred A
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« on: June 12, 2009, 11:33:34 AM »

Good day all,
I was wondering about some opinions that folks have (none would be totally right or wrong) about printer consumables.
I adhere to the Epson printer uses Epson inks principle, and have been lucky with print quality being top notch all the time, as well as almost zero clogged nozzles.

I was thinking of an analogy that might make my point.
Your cherished automobile. We, usually love our cars... we wash them, vacuum them, change the oil when scheduled, rotate tires, etc.
... and we generally put in the proper grade of gasoline to maintain performance and keep a level of internal 'clean'.
If you bought the wonderful Caddy 8 cyl engine and it calls for top grade, you put in top grade fuel.
Many have Lexus, Infinity, BMW, etc. and they put in the top grade fuel. The top grade fuel not only suggests top performance, but fuel cools, and cleans engine valves.
Why to we want to shortcut our printers?
The whole story isn't just comparing prints with off brand inks, but in the cleaning properties of the REAL inks.

Last point!   We have expensive cameras, tripods, lenses, and flash modules. Why would I dilute my results by using inks from XXX brand?

Hope to hear many opinions.
Fred
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BrianPrice
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 01:04:27 PM »

Fred

I'm with you on this one. People who complain about the cost of ink don't value their prints highly enough.

Brian
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admin
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2009, 03:30:10 PM »

I used to refill my Canon cartridges for my old i960 printer with bottled inks.  You could get cartridge "blanks" and just refill them with a little syringe when they went empty.  The allure was there: it actually felt good to get a freshly filled cartridge for less than a dollar each time.  Sure, the rainbow colored fingers and a bit of spilled ink were a cost, but I'm a "hacker" at heart and love to work on things anyway.  No big deal.  Well, after using the refills for a few months, their true "colors" started shining through.  The viscosity of the inks was a little off, because the cartridges actually dripped if you didn't get them in the printer fast enough.  Taking an original Canon cartridge and drilling a hole in that to use instead of the third party blanks helped a little, but even then, the ink delivery wasn't what it should have been because if you printed something with a large patch of saturated magenta, the magenta ink cartridge couldn't keep up and streaks would appear.  This is something you don't notice when you first start using it.  Then I started getting more clogs than usual, some that would require a physical alcohol cleaning to fix.  In the long run, I just got tired of the problems.  It wasn't worth it and I didn't know whether the third party inks would even hold up as well over time so I quit using them.

I'm sure now, years later, there may be better products and I'm sure there are some that people swear by.  If there were third party inks that got rave reviews from both a quality and ease of use standpoint, I might eventually try again but for now, it's just not worth it.  I'll stick with the manufacturer's ink.  I do find it a bit odd that in a good number of cases, replacement (manufacturer) ink costs more than the printer!  And most of the time, they include real ink cartridges with the printer: not starter inks.

Mike
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Terry-M
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2009, 07:24:03 PM »

I always use Epson inks with my R800; I buy them on-line of course to save some money.
My experience with non-Epson inks is similar to others, they clog the printer. With my old printer, I always had my cartridges re-filled at a local Cartridge World shop but within a year the printer was unusable.

Printers (A4 & A3) themselves seem to be relatively cheap for what they are and I have been told the high prices manufacturers charge for their inks compensates for this - the printer is a sort of loss leader. However, I don't really believe Epson Canon etc. plan not to make money on their printers.
I wonder what the cost of ink is per ml for the big pro printers that do cost a lot of money, are you Pro's being fleeced too?

Terry.
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Steve W
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2009, 02:25:40 AM »

This thread made me finally register  Grin

I have been using third party inks for several years now in my various Canon printers (ip4500, ip4200, ip4000 and ip6000D). The inks have been from Hobbicolors and more recently Image Specialists. I have had totally no clogs due to these inks. I print quite a few pictures - mainly lighthouses and covered bridges. I could/would not be able to print the number of pictures (mostly 8.0" X 10.5") I do if I didn't refill. I do only use Canon OEM cartridges for refilling. Have a chip resetter for the new CLI-8 cartridges. Also I purge (clean) my cartridges after several refills. I don't find refilling or purging to be a particularly messy job. At times my printers sit idle for several weeks between uses. They print perfectly when called for. Perfect nozzle checks.
Of course using third party inks and non Canon paper (mostly Costco Kirkland Glossy Photo) requires printer profiles. That is why I have Profile Prism. I have run non-scientific fading tests with prints in full sunlight. Canon OEM ink fades a little less but they do fade
The cost of OEM ink cartridges is much too high considering the small amount of ink provided. Canon OEMs cost between $13 to $15. I can refill for between a buck or two per refill.
Just my two cents worth.

Steve W.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2009, 09:10:06 AM »

There's a third route to take:

Larger carts of the OEM ink can be less than 1/3 the price per ML compared to smaller carts of the same OEM ink. For example 0.23 Eurocent excl. VAT per ML  on a 775 ML cart compared to 0,78 Eurocent per ML excl. VAT on an 28 ML cart.  Bigger investment for some users but with all the advantages of using the right ink on the printer. Refilling carts from larger carts isn't difficult.

While I have used third party inks (early pigment) when the big printer companies had no suitable inks on the wide formats I wouldn't recommend it anymore. There were color shifts in the inks per batch that made consistency of job repeats difficult. The third party pigment inks had more pigment settling if not used frequently which also contributed to less color consistency and damper clogging. Dye inks are another category but I can not use dye inks for the jobs I have. There have been improvements in third  party pigment inks since I used them but the color inks are not matching the fade resistance of Vivera pigment ink for example. The last ink can even be used in Epsons which Paul Roark showed with the PK Vivera in an Epson 1400 (1.5 picoliter droplets). No clogs reported, neutral black, excellent fade resistance.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

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http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html




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Keith
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 12:24:12 AM »

Very interesting!

One of my concerns would be who to complain to if problems come up. Would anyone be interested in helping? Back to the automobile comparison. I have always gone with the dealer service on my vehicles and been treated like a king. Of course I am paying more, but the dependability and quality of service has been increasingly better over the years as the dealer realized the extent of my loyalty. I think this is also true with the photography equipment and printers I have bought over the years. I don't print huge volumes, quality and help when I need it is most important to me. I think sticking with the manufactures recommended consumables is the way to go. At least for me.

Regards,

Keith
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Fred A
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 10:25:27 AM »

Quote
I don't print huge volumes, quality and help when I need it is most important to me. I think sticking with the manufactures recommended consumables is the way to go. At least for me.
A-Men to that!
Really when you think about it, How can a Printer Manufacturer research and develop the sophisticated printers that we buy today. I currently have an Epson R 1800 and that baby talks to me. I don't clog, because I believe the Epson inks contain cleaning solvents that act like Coumadin.
How can they sell printers for 50 dollars to 350 dollars in that size (13in wide) for that price unless they can profit on the consumables which work the best?

Why did we change to pigment ink printers? We were told that our work will not fade for 200 years; using their inks.
I'll let you know on this forum if that is true or not.  Grin Grin Grin

Fred
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