EricG
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« on: January 15, 2012, 11:27:11 AM » |
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Hi For the past several years I have been happily profiling my papers using my PC (Windows XP SP3) and my Epson 1290 printer. I am now using a Laptop (Windows 7 Home Premium SP1) and an Epson P50 printer and am having problems getting profiles from this combination for my favourite inks and paper. The prints are very dark and quite awful and I get better results from just using the printer driver profiles nearest to my paper type. The main problem seems to be that there are no generic settings for non-Epson Media (such as Photo Quality Inkjet paper) that I had with the old Epson 1290 and I suspect that choosing any of the Epson brand settings won't work with non-Epson papers. Another problem is that the software for Windows 7 for my scanner, an Epson Perfection 4990, is different to that for Windows XP and doesn't appear to allow me to use my customary settings for scans for profiling. I have both Vuescan Professional Edition (latest version) and Qimage Professional Edition (Version 2010.210) but haven't previously used either of these applications when profiling; I have always used Epson Scan and Photoshop CS3 for this. Can anyone either give advice on this or point me to a link for scanning/profiling tips that might help resolve this issue. I would also like to know where I can find the data files that are created when the "create profile" button is pressed - they use to be in the Program>Profile folder but not (apparently) in Windows 7! I would like to delete all reference to previous profiles and start from scratch.  |
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« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 11:45:11 AM by EricG »
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Fred A
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 11:54:00 AM » |
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Can anyone either give advice on this or point me to a link for scanning/profiling tips that might help resolve this issue.
I would try setting the printer profile to read: Let Printer Handle color. See snaps One shows the Color Management box and I call your attention to the little button icon toward the upper right of the box. Place your pointer on it, and it will read; Let Printer Manage Color. After clicking, your Job Property box should look like the second screen snap. Set the printer driver to ICM (don't use the No Color Adjustment setting for this profile) Choose a paper selection as close to (You didn't say what paper you were using) the type of paper you are using. Sometimes with off brand paper, you might have to experiment.... example, just because the paper you are using is glossy, you might get a better match with a Semi Gloss selection. You have to try. That should give excellent printing results. Using that setting of Let Printer Manage color and the generic print profile from Qimage As for the profiling of the paper, see if you can scan in RAW mode using Vuescan. Fred PS. Another thought! If this is your first encounter with an LCD type screen, it may be set too bright, and consequently, you are expecting the prints to be lighter than they come out of the printer. Fred |
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« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 12:22:20 PM by Fred A »
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Terry-M
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 02:19:51 PM » |
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The main problem seems to be that there are no generic settings for non-Epson Media (such as Photo Quality Inkjet paper) that I had with the old Epson 1290 and I suspect that choosing any of the Epson brand settings won't work with non-Epson papers. Are you sure there isn't a data sheet with recommended driver settings for the paper you are using. Most decent independent papers will give the appropriate drivers settings for particular printers. Another problem is that the software for Windows 7 for my scanner, an Epson Perfection 4990, is different to that for Windows XP and doesn't appear to allow me to use my customary settings for scans for profiling. You have Vuescan, use that; it's better than most, if not all, scanner supplied software and has the ability to save settings. The prints are very dark Like Fred said, the usual cause of this is the monitor being too bright. You don't mention calibrating your laptop? Some calibration software, even for laptops, allows you to set a luminance value in an "advanced mode". Otherwise it's trial and error. I find on my laptop the brightness setting is course so it's ends up as a compromise - but I don't use it for photo printing. I would also like to know where I can find the data files that are created when the "create profile" button is pressed The profiles are saved as follows, just the same as XP C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color I hope that is of some he;p too. Terry I would think the PP settings are here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Prism\Settings. That is for 64bit W7. 32bit W7 may be " ~Program Files~" |
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EricG
Newbie
Posts: 15
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 10:06:06 AM » |
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Thank you both for the input. I shall look into the use of Vuescan rather than Epson Scan and try again.
Yes, I have profiled my Laptop (with Spyder3) but with virtually no controls available, although better than default it is not perfect.
I would have thought that one could ignore the monitor when profiling though; if the profile is good the test print should look good and print very similar to the same test print from my colour managed PC with a properly profiled CRT Monitor. I assumed a correctly profiled monitor would only be necessary for editing images and that unedited images should print accurately.
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Fred A
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 10:20:06 AM » |
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I assumed a correctly profiled monitor would only be necessary for editing images and that unedited images should print accurately. Absolutely correct, Eric. The reason Terry and I mention a monitor that might be too bright is due to us encountering so many folks that will darken the image before printing because it looks too light on the screen; or, an image may really be too dark, but it looks OK on the screen! You are correct though, the monitor profile or what you see on the screen has no bearing on what comes out of the printer. What kind of paper are you trying to profile.? Have you profiled it before for the other printer? The other printer, the 1290, used dye ink. What sort of ink does your new printer use? Probably one of the pigment types.... Is that paper you are trying to profile 'happy" with pigment ink? Just some thoughts Fred |
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EricG
Newbie
Posts: 15
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 11:19:44 AM » |
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I am using JetTek Inks (not Epson) and have been for several years now. My experience is that they are a very close match to the Epson ones.
I use a number of different papers but for most of my output I use Kirkland Professional Gloss and Croppers Matt. Both of these have been successfully profiled on my previous setup - PC with Windows XP SP3 and Epson 1290 (1280 in North America).
I am also using the latest edition of Vuescan Professional 64-bit Version on my Laptop but notice that the RAW output option is not available but DNG has appeared as a new option. I cannot find any reference to these changes on any of the Hamrick site/links - RAW output is still mentioned there as an option.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 11:39:41 AM » |
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I am also using the latest edition of Vuescan Professional 64-bit Version on my Laptop but notice that the RAW output option is not available It is! See screen shots attached. You must have your scanner on and set the Input correctly to see the option in the Output tab. Terry |
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EricG
Newbie
Posts: 15
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 11:50:38 AM » |
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Silly me. I don't know how I missed that - I was convinced that all the options were visible when Vuescan was opened.
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EricG
Newbie
Posts: 15
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 10:23:02 AM » |
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I am also using the latest edition of Vuescan Professional 64-bit Version on my Laptop but notice that the RAW output option is not available It is! See screen shots attached. You must have your scanner on and set the Input correctly to see the option in the Output tab. Terry Today, I am using my PC with Windows XP and Vuescan 32-bit Version 9.0.75 and on this computer I can see the RAW Option when I open Vuescan without any scanners switched on. No wonder I was mystified that it wasn't there on my Laptop - must be a Windows 7 thing! |
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EricG
Newbie
Posts: 15
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 10:36:31 AM » |
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[/quote]
I would try setting the printer profile to read: Let Printer Handle color. See snaps
One shows the Color Management box and I call your attention to the little button icon toward the upper right of the box.
Place your pointer on it, and it will read; Let Printer Manage Color.
After clicking, your Job Property box should look like the second screen snap.
Set the printer driver to ICM (don't use the No Color Adjustment setting for this profile)
Choose a paper selection as close to (You didn't say what paper you were using) the type of paper you are using.
Sometimes with off brand paper, you might have to experiment.... example, just because the paper you are using is glossy, you might get a better match with a Semi Gloss selection.
You have to try.
That should give excellent printing results. Using that setting of Let Printer Manage color and the generic print profile from Qimage
[/quote]
I usually print using this method for my snapshots but when printing my "serious" stuff on A4 size I prefer to print them through Photoshop for the extra editing controls and that is the reason I make printing profiles using Prism.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 10:26:30 PM » |
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but when printing my "serious" stuff on A4 size I prefer to print them through Photoshop Sorry, but that is a contradiction of terms. If you must edit in PS, it is much better to print the "serious" stuff in QU. After all it is a really serious program for printing, PS is not.  Terry |
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EricG
Newbie
Posts: 15
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 09:45:09 AM » |
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I would have to disagree with you. My serious photography is edited, sharpened and sized in Photoshop at the size and ppi I require. When printed through Photoshop nothing is changed and it is a very simple process.
This does not appear to be the case when printing through Qimage; it seems overly complex to apply my own settings and to get a print that meets my specifications. Perhaps if I spent more time with it I might find it easier to work with but at the moment I am content to let it size and fit my snapshots and use Photoshop for my one off exhibition prints.
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Terry-M
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 11:12:35 AM » |
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Hi Eric, My serious photography is edited, sharpened and sized in Photoshop at the size and ppi I require. The words "sized in PS, at the size and ppi I require" are where you are missing the point with QU. Because you seem to be trying to use the PS method in QU: This does not appear to be the case when printing through Qimage; it seems overly complex to apply my own settings and to get a print that meets my specifications. You are probably missing the whole point of why QU makes superior prints. Forget what you have to do in PS with sizing and resolution, QU does all that for you. All you need to do is specify a print size in inches or mm and QU looks after all the PPI stuff and applies smart print sharpening, one setting does all. QU sends the image data to the printer at the native resolution of the printer (720ppi for your Epson set at best quality); the way it's interpolated is unique to QU and superior to anything that PS can do. You'd better read the web site. http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage-u/quality.htmhttp://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage-u/tech-prt.htmhttp://ddisoftware.com/tech/articles/july-2011-restless-natives/Terry |
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EricG
Newbie
Posts: 15
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 11:24:55 AM » |
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I've had a look at the links you posted but I don't have Qimage Ultimate.
However, I don't use Photoshop tools for sharpening and sizing - I have Photoshop plug-ins for sharpening and sizing.
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« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 11:34:52 AM by EricG »
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Terry-M
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 11:55:13 AM » |
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I have Photoshop plug-ins for sharpening and sizing. The QU and Mike Chaney wisdom is to interpolate once only, in QU. It makes life much easier, one image for all sizes of print. And as for sharpening, QU is very good too with Tone Targeted Sharpening, another unique and powerful feature. http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage-u/tech-tts.htmThere's a learning video about it too: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=xn7Ipw8IAhQ&vq=hd720You have a world class program at a bargain price with QU, I thoroughly recommend you explore all its features. Like you, I only print at A4 (small is beautiful  ) but my competition entries always get complements from judges on the print quality, even if they don't like the composition.  Terry |
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